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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 03:04:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Know one has yet given a reason as to why a reboot would not work when the present incarnation of the Realms was shunned by so many.
It wasn't the rules that "Realms" lovers had a problem with, it was what happened to the Realms and it's very very obvious.
How exactly would you make people like the current Realms when most people do not? An edition change isn't going to suddenly make people start liking the Realms.
The big potential problem is that assuming "most" people don't like it is just an assumption. As is assuming anyone, much less a large number of people, would come back if it were "reset". I'm sure there are people that have no interest in ever trusting WotC again, and other who will see that WotC will once again demonstrate that if you are in the minority they will discard what you like to curry favor with others (ditching 4E FR). The other potential problem is people like Markustay who, despite wanting this on some level, see that it is just doing to the current fans what was done to older fans and they know that it's wrong, just like it was wrong the last time. Two wrongs don't make a right.
In other words, it comes down to weighing cost vs gain. If they reset, how many people do they lose? If 4E taught us anything it's that massive change will not sit well with some people and they will quit. Then, how many people do they gain? I believe a reasonable guess can be made to answer the first of those questions. However, I believe the second question is an unknown with too many unknowns funneling into it to really answer. For instance, what time period is the best to reset to? How many will or won't come back based on that? How many are gone for good and not even a gold plated Grey Box will bring them box? How many would come back and the first thing they didn't like leave again? What is the threshold for people like that?
All of that is before you consider the other problem. Does anyone really think they won't "update" or "improve" whatever era they reset to? What better way to cement teiflings, dragonborn, warforged, whatever into the setting than to have them there from the start in the reboot? Not to mention whatever other new ideas are the hotness in 5E. And there's nothing stopping them from taking the current cosmology and saying it's always been that way.
That is the ultimate problem with this idea. No one seems to be seriously considering the potentially disasterous way it could be handled and the numerous side effects it might have. For instance, I have read here more than once that novels bring in more than the RPG material. What will happen when the novel timeline "resets" and they erase the last couple of decades of novel material? How many of those folks are just going to shrug their shoulders and keep buying books? How many are going to call BS and walk away while cursing WotC name? I don't believe they need to tempt fate twice. They should'v taken a protectionary approach to their fanbase with the switch to 4E and they didn't. That is no reason why they shouldn't do it now. I honestly think if they reset the timeline it is a clear signal they learned nothing from the 4E episode.
Just ask yourself this, Did anyone directly ask for the Spellplague? Did anyone ask for a 100 year time jump and numerous deity deaths? Did anyone ask for a whole new chunk of planet to drop out of the sky? Did anyone ask for Halruaa, Neverwinter, Luskan, etc to get blown up? Did anyone ask for Thay to become an undead wasteland ruled by Szass Tam? I believe you will find the answer is no to those. This was all done to satisfy what they did ask for. Eliminate or sideline the Chosen, clean up the clutter lore, make it easy to jump in, etc. Notice how different the requests are from the result. Tell me how a reset will end up any better. You will ask for an end result and be surprised by the mind boggling choices of how they make it happen and what else gets changed in the process. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 03:42:41
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I would hazard a guess, that if WotC did reboot, people would b***h anyways...
My 2 coppers |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 03:48:57
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Yes, we always do, after every edition change. The internet just made it easier.
But the last was the first time we actually left, in droves. The first time another RPG company actually had more fans at a Gencon then TSR/WotC. Big difference in complaining down at the LGS... every weekend while playing D&D with your buds... and refusing to buy any new D&D products.
So go ahead and b***h and complain, because you know what? It means we still care. When we stop caring, then they really need to start worrying. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Jan 2012 03:51:04 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 03:58:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yes, Dragonborn should lay eggs, and they can correct that now (thats not a major thing, so it can be retconned in a soft reboot). Genasi & Tieflings have always been around - just give us a little bit more lore about where these larger groups have been 'hiding' (I've covered this exact point in several threads already).
Try convincing the fanboys that they should give up their male Dragonborn character's peen and telling them they all have cloacas now. I dare you. We'll see how they react to a "soft" reboot. 
quote:
What most fans want is a Forgotten Realms that makes us feel 'at home'. 4e didn't do that for most of us. We don't have to have one or the other - compromises can be made.
You don't know what "most fans" want. Sorry, but you just don't. At best, you have a small sample of online folks, and quite frankly you're already rejecting what a portion of those say they want.
quote:
Its not about quality, or editions - its about understanding the underlying elements that make the realms the Realms, and breathing life into them. Some people (apparently) "don't get it". I have read poorly written Realms fanfic/HB that I enjoyed immensely, and very well-written novels that just didn't 'do it for me'. It isn't even a matter of 'writing style' - You either 'get it', or you don't - its a very tenuous thing, and almost impossible to describe.
It's not about quality? Really? Really?
Markus, not everyone shares your views. For most non-professionals, "quality" is just a reflection of whether or not they liked something. Most people don't go through an actual review of quality from a professional standpoint.
In the latter part, you are saying something true. It's about personal tastes. That's it, end of story.
quote:
Thats what I mean by 'forced', but what Therise says is also forced of a different nature. When you meet a single Saurial, thats okay. Then 2 books later you find out there is a secret vale of them, thats also okay. When you are handed a world you thought you knew and these 'reptile things' are crawling all over it, thats an example of forced lore. It just didn't feel 'natural'; it wasn't the Dragonborn that were bad - once again, it was the presentation. Too much, all at once.
Heh. There is an order of magnitude of difference (at least!) between a small group of kidnapped saurials from another world/plane/whatever and positing that AO created an entire duplicate planet, messing with the cosmology and origin story of the Realms, then crashing it into Toril and spreading Dragonborn around as a main PC race. The Saurials, by comparison, were in one trilogy; we never really saw them again, and they didn't interact with any cultures in a truly significant manner. One trilogy can be glossed over. An entirely new setting is in your face as long as you use it.
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Have you read Rich baker's series? It feels like The Realms to me - I barely notice the 4e setting at all. A couple of the Waterdeep novels are also like that (although 'grittier' then I'm used to).
I read the 3E elvish stories (Farthest Gate, etc.) and loved those. They felt Realmsy. I tried to read Swordmage and couldn't get much past the first chapter. It didn't grab me, so I can't really say.
quote:
While I personally don't mind an edition change without an RSE (since when did they become mandatory?), I think the 'soft' reboot style for 5e may alleviate any need of that (unless they decide to do a time-traveling continuity reboot, in which case, THAT IS the RSE)
This "soft" vs. "hard" thing is only in your mind. *cough*
No, seriously though. What you might consider to be a simple change that wouldn't do anything but plant roses, others might consider a major change. You can be the best at determining what that level is for you, but don't count on being able to do it for others.
quote:
...I can now see much of 4e for what it is, without hating it for "replacing my beloved setting". A bitter pill, that, but one we should all swallow.
And you should have that power, to determine what is best for everyone? What people "should" do?
Markus, listen. I'm going to say it one more time, so try to let it through: in matters of taste, people are often WILDLY different. There is no "should" in matters of taste. I remember you vehemently defending people's rights to have and hold their own opinions of things, not one month ago. And I agree, for opinions that are matters of taste. But now you're going to tell people there is a right way, and that they should follow your vision because they just "should"? Come on.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 04:11:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yes, Dragonborn should lay eggs, and they can correct that now (thats not a major thing, so it can be retconned in a soft reboot). Genasi & Tieflings have always been around - just give us a little bit more lore about where these larger groups have been 'hiding' (I've covered this exact point in several threads already).
Try convincing the fanboys that they should give up their male Dragonborn character's peen and telling them they all have cloacas now. I dare you. We'll see how they react to a "soft" reboot.
This is purely a guess on my part, and maybe I am misreading your post with the wink showing something I am missing, but I believe the driving issue is the female dragonborn. If they aren't mammals, there isn't much reason for them to have breasts. On the other hand, if what you say is true (and again, I may be misreading it) then I would think every guy who read the House of Serpents trilogy would be lining up to play a Yuan Ti pureblood. Thanks to Lisa Smedman's attention to biological and mating detail we know that at least some of the male purebloods have two. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 04:18:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
This is purely a guess on my part, and maybe I am misreading your post with the wink showing something I am missing, but I believe the driving issue is the female dragonborn. If they aren't mammals, there isn't much reason for them to have breasts. On the other hand, if what you say is true (and again, I may be misreading it) then I would think every guy who read the House of Serpents trilogy would be lining up to play a Yuan Ti pureblood. Thanks to Lisa Smedman's attention to biological and mating detail we know that at least some of the male purebloods have two.
I'm reacting to Markus's suggestion that they "soft" reboot all of the Dragonborn to be reptiles instead of mammals. If you change the females, you must also change the males.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 05:47:50
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Without a consensus, they have nothing to build off of.
I am not stating what I, personally, want to see, but rather, what I think would please the largest cross-section of fans. If you recall, I am a fan of a post-plague reboot, which is not what I am evangelizing ATM. I think an OGB (updated) soft reboot would please the largest demographic.
If people here aren't willing to compromise, then I guess we'll just have to leave it to the WotC guys to decide what we want.
And that didn't work the last time.
For the record, quality is only a very small portion of a product's appeal, in this day and age. Thats just how it is - ask Michael Bay. You give people what they want, and quality only plays a small part, IMHO. D&D fans, in-general, are slightly more discerning, but still fall prey to this marketing stratagem (hence, Drizzt on every cover).
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 05:59:23
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See this scroll Markus
It might answer your questions, or leave you with more... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 06:47:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Without a consensus, they have nothing to build off of.
But they're not going for consensus with the 5E rules, they're going for modularity. Why would they go for consensus with the Realms?
quote:
I am not stating what I, personally, want to see, but rather, what I think would please the largest cross-section of fans. If you recall, I am a fan of a post-plague reboot, which is not what I am evangelizing ATM. I think an OGB (updated) soft reboot would please the largest demographic.
If people here aren't willing to compromise, then I guess we'll just have to leave it to the WotC guys to decide what we want.
And that didn't work the last time.
For the record, quality is only a very small portion of a product's appeal, in this day and age. Thats just how it is - ask Michael Bay. You give people what they want, and quality only plays a small part, IMHO. D&D fans, in-general, are slightly more discerning, but still fall prey to this marketing stratagem (hence, Drizzt on every cover).
Modular approach for the rules, modular approach for each setting. Consensus and compromise aren't in their plan because it's not necessary. Think smorgasboard.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 06:53:13
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quote:
Therise
But they're not going for consensus with the 5E rules, they're going for modularity.
How do you know this, Therise? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 06:59:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Therise
But they're not going for consensus with the 5E rules, they're going for modularity.
How do you know this, Therise?
From Monte. 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 07:00:17
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If reboot is meant in full meaning of it, then no, I am against it.
If, however, it is not reboot, but taking campaign's place in more past time not too far like now, then why not? The most fearsome thing in 4th edition is lack of knowledge about many things. It is hard to take everything that happened in 100 years in one moment easily. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 07:23:34
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quote:
Therisequote:
Ayrikquote:
Therise
But they're not going for consensus with the 5E rules, they're going for modularity.
How do you know this, Therise?
From Monte.
lol, sorry to belabour this point ... but I've not yet noticed Monte or anyone else from WotC ever stating 5E will implement a modular approach. Not in Charting the Course for D&D where 5E was officially announced, nor in Monte's Looking at the Past and the Future followup article, nor even in any of the first ten hits on a google search for D&D 5E (modular or module). Indeed, the only instances of the words module or modular occur as passing references to the approaches used in past D&D editions and in the very unofficial commentary appended or initiated by D&D fans such as ourselves. EN World has written an exhaustive and seemingly authoritative article about 5E modularity, a Forbes report attributes statements about 5E modularity to Mike Mearls without any supporting interviews or quotes, and any number of D&D fansites repeat, elaborate, and distort these claims ad nauseum.
A modular game design seems intelligent, it's what many of us want and hope for, it's evidently what most of us automatically expect, 5E might turn out to be a modular design. But it has conspicuously never yet been advertised as such, which surprises me since "modular" is such a powerful term when marketing RPGs. As you can see, I'm wary of assumptions. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 16 Jan 2012 07:59:43 |
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MalariaMoon
Learned Scribe
324 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 08:26:52
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There always seems to be a bit of a hullabaloo going on in these 5E Realms threads, so I'm going to throw in my two cents and make a quick getaway.
Whilst I'm not a fan of the Spellplague changes, I'd like to see the Realms continue moving forward (both conceptually and chronologically). One of the motivations behind the 4E changes was that the sheer depth of lore was one of the thing that prevented new fans entering the Realms. That's a valid criticism, but I think it was also the foremost thing that made the Realms stand out from all the other fantasy world's; the sheer depth of lore (for good or ill).
The 4E Realms has been about wide sketches; with the details for DMs to ink in. Again, that makes sense, but I think it weakens the Realms. I want MORE LORE! I hope the Realms in 5E goes about filling in a lot of those details for us. Give us the stories and characters of the new era, and eventually they'll become as iconic as those from the "good old days" of the Realms. I want books full of fluff in dense print, I want the people who understand the Realms to start making it complicated again. I want sourcebooks a la Lands of Intrigue. I want Volo's Guide to Returned Abeir. Give the new landscape some Realms personality. Give Ed as much money as he needs to just churn out Realmslore at will on whatever topic he sees fit.
Some DMs like trying to thread their stories through mountains of established canon. Maybe it's a bit more work, but it's incredibly rewarding (for me at any rate).
I definitely wouldn't like to see all the old sourcebooks reprinted with new rules. I'd like a lot less RSEs, but thirty years on it would be fun to look back at the Spellplague and then argue about the state of the Realms in 1685 DR! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 08:33:42
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Volo's Guide to Returned Abeir
* The thought seems to skip a heartbeat and catch in his throat. Taken by surprise, Ayrik turns away, hiding a choking wave of anticipation and sadness that abruptly blurs his vision. * |
[/Ayrik] |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 09:06:11
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Volo's Guide to Tymanther. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 10:00:27
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| I don't know. Agree with MalariaMoon, I want new stuff, maybe just take 1350 - 1500 DR and detail the hell out of it, while downplaying the unpopular events. The secret is always in the details, return to the 1st person unreliable narrator and e.g. describe the Time of Troubles in a different way, without the gods acting like idiots, or actually this time describe the Zhents as more competent, make dragons and elves mythical, either reduce or increase real world influences, not something halfway that doesn't make sense, or attract gamers with Ed's original take on a few places, or others with more balanced npc stats, etc. hundreds of other improvements are possible. I don't see how returning to 1357 DR would be an improvement over 1479 DR, both are bare bones basically. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 10:12:57
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| I think a reboot would be a terrible idea. While i agree that the realms need a bit of fixing , i disagree strongly with the view that 4e brought nothing good to the realms. Forgotten realms is not a comic book that RECENT events can simply be ignored and we return to a time when Mystra and Kelemovor are happily married with three kids and a pool in the the backyard. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 14:10:05
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"New" is relative. The Time of Troubles told in a dragon/illithid/drow's point of view is new. Old news, but new perspective. Still, it's something new---some things never divulged before would be brought to the limelight. And I don't think a reset is needed to make that happen.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 16:14:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
lol, sorry to belabour this point ... but I've not yet noticed Monte or anyone else from WotC ever stating 5E will implement a modular approach. Not in Charting the Course for D&D where 5E was officially announced, nor in Monte's Looking at the Past and the Future followup article, nor even in any of the first ten hits on a google search for D&D 5E (modular or module). Indeed, the only instances of the words module or modular occur as passing references to the approaches used in past D&D editions and in the very unofficial commentary appended or initiated by D&D fans such as ourselves. EN World has written an exhaustive and seemingly authoritative article about 5E modularity, a Forbes report attributes statements about 5E modularity to Mike Mearls without any supporting interviews or quotes, and any number of D&D fansites repeat, elaborate, and distort these claims ad nauseum.
A modular game design seems intelligent, it's what many of us want and hope for, it's evidently what most of us automatically expect, 5E might turn out to be a modular design. But it has conspicuously never yet been advertised as such, which surprises me since "modular" is such a powerful term when marketing RPGs. As you can see, I'm wary of assumptions.
Well, they've been talking about modularity and modular approaches to the rules since August. The title was even "Modular Madness". The most recent of Monte's legends and lore states the following:
quote:
"Now imagine that the game offered you modular, optional add-ons that allow you to create the character you want to play while letting the Dungeon Master create the game he or she wants to run. Like simple rules for your story-driven game? You're good to go."
So... modular.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 18:57:25
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| Doing a reboot for the dragon born would be easy. They did it with kobolds, they used to be figment. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 19:13:25
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Dragonborn are an already established race within the Realms without the 4E stuff they added. They could be Dragonkin, Dragonborn ( as per the Races of the Dragon, v3.5 supplement) AND/OR Saurials of a different faction. I mean, I don't know why they went with the Abier-world aspect but that shouldn't be the only way they've entered the setting.
EDIT: Spelling |
Edited by - Diffan on 17 Jan 2012 12:16:44 |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 19:25:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayriklol, sorry to belabour this point ... but I've not yet noticed Monte or anyone else from WotC ever stating 5E will implement a modular approach. Not in Charting the Course for D&D where 5E was officially announced, nor in Monte's Looking at the Past and the Future followup article, nor even in any of the first ten hits on a google search for D&D 5E (modular or module). Indeed, the only instances of the words module or modular occur as passing references to the approaches used in past D&D editions and in the very unofficial commentary appended or initiated by D&D fans such as ourselves. EN World has written an exhaustive and seemingly authoritative article about 5E modularity, a Forbes report attributes statements about 5E modularity to Mike Mearls without any supporting interviews or quotes, and any number of D&D fansites repeat, elaborate, and distort these claims ad nauseum.
A modular game design seems intelligent, it's what many of us want and hope for, it's evidently what most of us automatically expect, 5E might turn out to be a modular design. But it has conspicuously never yet been advertised as such, which surprises me since "modular" is such a powerful term when marketing RPGs. As you can see, I'm wary of assumptions.
I read the article by Monte Cook and felt that there were a couple places that made it seem obvious they were going for modularity:
quote:
Imagine a game where the core essence of D&D has been distilled down to a very simple but entirely playable-in-its-right game. Now imagine that the game offered you modular, optional add-ons that allow you to create the character you want to play while letting the Dungeon Master create the game he or she wants to run...
In this game, you play what you want to play. It’s our goal to give you the tools to do so.
Bolded for emphasis. That sounds like they are putting together a single most basic framework and then allowing the piling up of add-ons and optional rules around that framework, or so they state is their goal. Further evidence supporting modularity as an end goal seems to be here:
quote:
So if this new endeavor is just like your favorite prior version of the game, why play this one? First, we hope you're going to enjoy the distillation of the things that make D&D the game we all love into a single, unified package, with the ability to pick and choose other options as you desire.
Second—and this sounds so crazy that you probably won't believe it right now—we're designing the game so that not every player has to choose from the same set of options.
Bolded for emphasis. Now, these are all great things to say, but it is possible that these lofty goals won't pan out. Still, it's hard to argue that 5e rules are not being built around modularity. As to whether that modular approach applies to the Forgotten Realms setting? I don't know, maybe somebody has said something specific about the Realms that I missed or maybe nothing major has been said yet. |
Edited by - idilippy on 16 Jan 2012 19:28:23 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 20:07:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
See this scroll Markus
It might answer your questions, or leave you with more...
First you make me look at the WotC site...
I had something different here, but I just erased a mini-rant. I have been calling for a 'time for healing', and I realize now, I am part of the infection. I won't say why, but lets just say I didn't get past the second paragraph.
And now, to give WotC their Christmas gift late (or very early) - see you in the funny papers. I really hope everyone gets everything out of 5e they want.
Peace |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 21:09:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
See this scroll Markus
It might answer your questions, or leave you with more...
First you make me look at the WotC site...
I had something different here, but I just erased a mini-rant. I have been calling for a 'time for healing', and I realize now, I am part of the infection. I won't say why, but lets just say I didn't get past the second paragraph.
And now, to give WotC their Christmas gift late (or very early) - see you in the funny papers. I really hope everyone gets everything out of 5e they want.
Peace
So......I'm guess what you read was bad then? |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 02:32:42
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I think this question either needs more options or needs to be more specific.
Are you asking a complete reboot as in from scratch, starting from Greenwood's original vision?
Or do you mean reboot back to before the 4th Edition-Spellplague garbage?
Because I'm all for going back to 1375 D.R. and no earlier. Not a fan of rebooting it all over, however. That's a lot of lore to throw out. I think we need to start back at 1375 D.R. but be more concise and respectful to everything written before.
As in, I think it should be mandated for authors and designers to do ALL their research prior to committing to a project. No ifs, ands, or buts. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 05:11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
I think this question either needs more options or needs to be more specific.
Are you asking a complete reboot as in from scratch, starting from Greenwood's original vision?
Or do you mean reboot back to before the 4th Edition-Spellplague garbage?
Because I'm all for going back to 1375 D.R. and no earlier. Not a fan of rebooting it all over, however. That's a lot of lore to throw out. I think we need to start back at 1375 D.R. but be more concise and respectful to everything written before.
As in, I think it should be mandated for authors and designers to do ALL their research prior to committing to a project. No ifs, ands, or buts.
While rewinding to 1375 would be my ideal scenario as well, that is going to raise the ire of the unknown number of 4th Edition aficionados.
Granted, it may be exactly what Wizbro is planning on doing, after receiving the type of verbal savaging directed at them from sites across the internet, figuring it's a gamble worth taking (and in my opinion, it probably is), but someone, somewhere, is going to end up holding the short end of the stick.
I have this crawling feeling that we in the the Realms family are going to be poorer off no matter what Wizbro does, one way or another, whether it's losing some of our members, or receiving a product that attempts to please as many people as possible, but in the end pleases no one. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 06:32:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Or do you mean reboot back to before the 4th Edition-Spellplague garbage?
Given how discussions have been going about this topic, what are you hoping to accomplish here?
quote:
Because I'm all for going back to 1375 D.R. and no earlier. Not a fan of rebooting it all over, however. That's a lot of lore to throw out. I think we need to start back at 1375 D.R. but be more concise and respectful to everything written before.
You're concerned about throwing out lore and being respectful to everything that has come before, and you are wanting to throw out everything after 1375. These comments and goals seem to be at odds.
quote:
As in, I think it should be mandated for authors and designers to do ALL their research prior to committing to a project. No ifs, ands, or buts.
That's pretty slick implying that the authors aren't doing their job without actually saying it. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 07:58:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Or do you mean reboot back to before the 4th Edition-Spellplague garbage?
Given how discussions have been going about this topic, what are you hoping to accomplish here?
quote:
Because I'm all for going back to 1375 D.R. and no earlier. Not a fan of rebooting it all over, however. That's a lot of lore to throw out. I think we need to start back at 1375 D.R. but be more concise and respectful to everything written before.
You're concerned about throwing out lore and being respectful to everything that has come before, and you are wanting to throw out everything after 1375. These comments and goals seem to be at odds.
quote:
As in, I think it should be mandated for authors and designers to do ALL their research prior to committing to a project. No ifs, ands, or buts.
That's pretty slick implying that the authors aren't doing their job without actually saying it.
I don't pretend to know what Razz was implying, because I'm aware that it's impossible for anyone else to know without actually getting an answer from Razz himself. That said...
It's clear that the authors of the Shattered Realms didn't do all their homework. If they had, we wouldn't be here having this acrimonious discussion and accusing each other of 'assaulting X Edition' and 'this RSE sucked while this one didn't' and 'so-and-so doesn't know what they're talking about' and 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong' and...
...and a moderator's Twinkie Alarm goes off, and they lock down the thread. And who can blame them? Come on, people, this isn't the WotC boards, this is Candlekeep. Posts should stay on topic, criticism should always be constructive (or at the very least, not leveled at each other), and the focus should be contribution, not verbally short-sheeting other posters. This topic - not this thread, but the entire topic, especially the tone - is getting discouragingly nasty.
There's bugger all we're actually going to know with Wizbro holding their cards so close to their vest. There's no point in provoking others and perpetuating bad feelings that may last long after this issue is buried and over with. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 08:38:14
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Can people please quit using the term "shattered". Thats like spitting in Ed's and the other freelancer's face.
Now wonder this forum has the rep of being a grognard forum. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Topic |
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Reboot of the Realms for 5th edition.
