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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Oct 2002 : 20:33:35
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I have a question about the afterlives of races, the false and faithless in particular. Are all false and/or faithless people of any race subjected to the punishment of the human death god (Myrkul, and later, Kelemvor) or does each race have a different death god?
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2002 : 12:22:16
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Good question. I don't really know of the top of my head. However, most demi-human pantheons have at least one deity who is concerned with the afterlife. The same goes for the non-Faerunian pantheons: Mulhorandi and Unther for exampel.
I therefore would hazard a guess that Kelemvor's realm is only for those who have been false or faithless in regards to the Faerunian pantheon. A person from Mulhorand or Unther would have to report to their deity of afterlife rather then Kelemvor.
Again, this is more of a guess then fact. I'll have to check the books on this. Or maybe one of the other sages can drop in. |
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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2002 : 15:05:27
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Ahhhhh.....Thanks, Mumadar. Mulhorand and Unther are in the Forgotten Realms, right |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2002 : 15:50:38
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Yes, Mulhorand and Unther are considered part of the Forgotten Realms, and are located on the planet Toril. Though in the 2nd edition they were not considered part of Faerun. I haven't really checked if that 'status' has changed. However with the inroads the Faerunian deities are making into Unther and Mulhorand, they might soon become considered part of it.
Another example of a region on Toril (and therefore part of the Forgotten Realms) is Maztica. This continent is also (technically) not part of Faerun. |
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2002 : 00:22:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Yes, Mulhorand and Unther are considered part of the Forgotten Realms, and are located on the planet Toril. Though in the 2nd edition they were not considered part of Faerun. I haven't really checked if that 'status' has changed. However with the inroads the Faerunian deities are making into Unther and Mulhorand, they might soon become considered part of it.
Another example of a region on Toril (and therefore part of the Forgotten Realms) is Maztica. This continent is also (technically) not part of Faerun.
I always regarded Faerun as the name of a continent. Perhaps it's wrong but it worked for me. |
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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2002 : 02:06:17
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| Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Faerun is a continent. Thanks to both of you for your information. |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2002 : 07:47:27
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quote:
Originally posted by kahonen
I always regarded Faerun as the name of a continent. Perhaps it's wrong but it worked for me.
Yeah, I guess I was a little bit confusing in my message. Faerun is a continent as far as I know. |
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Ditalidas
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
127 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2002 : 22:41:51
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The FRCS says the following:
While most souls wander the Fugue Plane until their deity calls them, the Faithless and the False are compelled to enter the city of Judgment and be judged by Kelemvor. The Faithless firmly denied any faith or only gave lip service to the gods for most of their lives without truly believing. The false intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they had made a personal commitment.
All of the Faithless receive the same punishment: They form a living wall around the city of Judgment, held together by a supernatural green greenish mold. This mold prevents them from escaping the wall and eventually breaks down their substance until the soul and its consciousness are dissolved.
The False are punished according to their crimes in life and serve their sentence in the city if Judgment for eternity. Nearly all of the beings in the city are members of the False, the rest being deceased followers of Jergal and Kelemvor who enact the will of their deities upon the doomed souls. Depending upon the severity of their crimes, some of the False may receive relative light punishments, such as escorting visiting baatzu or patrolling the city for unauthorized guests. Others are punished in ways that would surprise the cruelest demon.
More can be found on page 258 and 259 of FRCS |
'All that is' is also 'All that is not' for the one cannot exist without the other.
Sweet Water and Light Laughter |
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Feanor_Karnil
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2002 : 00:16:29
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| I have within my grasp a world map of the FR and Faerun is actually a continent that is very small. Faerun is also the only known part of FR every other part is listed as unknown. |
We live in a bleak world my friend, where heroes are few and shadows stalk us around every corner.
-Mikai Daerni |
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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2002 : 03:24:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Ditalidas
The FRCS says the following:
While most souls wander the Fugue Plane until their deity calls them, the Faithless and the False are compelled to enter the city of Judgment and be judged by Kelemvor. The Faithless firmly denied any faith or only gave lip service to the gods for most of their lives without truly believing. The false intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they had made a personal commitment.
All of the Faithless receive the same punishment: They form a living wall around the city of Judgment, held together by a supernatural green greenish mold. This mold prevents them from escaping the wall and eventually breaks down their substance until the soul and its consciousness are dissolved.
The False are punished according to their crimes in life and serve their sentence in the city if Judgment for eternity. Nearly all of the beings in the city are members of the False, the rest being deceased followers of Jergal and Kelemvor who enact the will of their deities upon the doomed souls. Depending upon the severity of their crimes, some of the False may receive relative light punishments, such as escorting visiting baatzu or patrolling the city for unauthorized guests. Others are punished in ways that would surprise the cruelest demon.
More can be found on page 258 and 259 of FRCS
Is this to imply that all souls, regardless of their race, are punished by Kelemvor? |
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Feanor_Karnil
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2002 : 03:52:32
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Yes this does not depend on race only faith, the faithless go to the crystal spire within the city of judgement. From there it is practically like hell the souls are tortured and once Kelemvor makes his judgement the souls cannot be ressurected or brought back.
Does this answer your question? |
We live in a bleak world my friend, where heroes are few and shadows stalk us around every corner.
-Mikai Daerni |
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Salius Kai
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2002 : 16:42:02
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| I always reguarded Fearun as the name of the planet its on. I figured the people living on it wouldn't have need to name continents, scince they only have one. |
"Welcome to these walls of infinite knowledge."
Salius Kai |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2002 : 17:57:18
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quote:
Originally posted by drummerboy465
Is this to imply that all souls, regardless of their race, are punished by Kelemvor?
Nope, this is only for those who venerate the human (Faerunian) pantheon. Those venerating the elven, halfling, dwarven or whatever other pantheon don't go to Kelemvor. The other pantheons have their own deities of the dead and deal with the departing sould accordingly. Analogy would be that someone worshipping the Norse pantheon on earth would not go to (Greek) Hades after death... |
Edited by - Mumadar Ibn Huzal on 24 Dec 2002 17:57:48 |
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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2002 : 01:23:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
quote:
Originally posted by drummerboy465
Is this to imply that all souls, regardless of their race, are punished by Kelemvor?
Nope, this is only for those who venerate the human (Faerunian) pantheon. Those venerating the elven, halfling, dwarven or whatever other pantheon don't go to Kelemvor. The other pantheons have their own deities of the dead and deal with the departing sould accordingly. Analogy would be that someone worshipping the Norse pantheon on earth would not go to (Greek) Hades after death...
: Picks up a large tome marked "Webster's" and proceeds to the word 'venerate' :( )
Well, okay that sort of answers my question (or would if I knew what the word 'venerate' meant ). But what if a person is faithless so he/she doesn't have a pantheon. Does that person just end up in the Wall of the Faithless? |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2002 : 11:00:17
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It probably would depend on the culture in which the character spend most of his life. If the character had lived in a culture which is predominantly governed by the Faerunian pantheon, said character would most likley end up on the Fugue Plain awaiting further 'judgement'. If the character spend most of his life in a Mulhorandi culture, well he wouldn't pay a visit to Kelemvor (most likely), but depart to the Mulhorandi afterlife.
There are grey areas or potential overlapping situations, but a DM should be able to figure that out. After all, we're talking about a small detail which will not happen very often in a character's career. The whole concept is more for a roleplaying background then something which should be set in rules. Creative DM-ing is the keyword I guess. |
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Ditalidas
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
127 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2002 : 13:30:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Analogy would be that someone worshipping the Norse pantheon on earth would not go to (Greek) Hades after death...
Does a Norse person living in Greece and accepting that pantheon go to Hades?
I still like the idea that gods of the one pantheon and gods of an other pantheon are in essence the same gods. By culture they are just named otherwise. If this would be true every False or Faithless would end up in the city of Judgment, but would call it and its god different.
I posted my former post because a friend of mine came across the situation in which a character denies his goddess when he dies. He is not willing to enter her realm.
This friend and I decided that when he turns away from her realm and his goddess he becomes either a Faithless or a False (probably the last. He willingly turns away from his goddess).
I remembered this thread and looked it up to see if my memory was serving me right in the information and advice I gave my friend. I found I was wrong on most issues and that the above posts lacked the information I needed. It was not enough to help me out. Another friend of mine pointed out the section in FRCS that I posted in my former post.
The character is an Aasimar following Chauntea. (Yeah I know… don’t ask me.)
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'All that is' is also 'All that is not' for the one cannot exist without the other.
Sweet Water and Light Laughter |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2002 : 16:58:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Ditalidas
Does a Norse person living in Greece and accepting that pantheon go to Hades?
Most likely since that person has embraced the Greek culture and beliefs. He expects to go down to Hades when he dies, as that is the widely accepted common 'knowledge' in that culture.
quote:
This friend and I decided that when he turns away from her realm and his goddess he becomes either a Faithless or a False (probably the last. He willingly turns away from his goddess).
Since the character believes in Chauntea (even though he renounces her currently) he worships the 'Faerunian Pantheon' and according to the accepted theory in said pantheon he will most likely end up as a False.
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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2002 : 01:43:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
It probably would depend on the culture in which the character spend most of his life. If the character had lived in a culture which is predominantly governed by the Faerunian pantheon, said character would most likley end up on the Fugue Plain awaiting further 'judgement'. If the character spend most of his life in a Mulhorandi culture, well he wouldn't pay a visit to Kelemvor (most likely), but depart to the Mulhorandi afterlife.
There are grey areas or potential overlapping situations, but a DM should be able to figure that out. After all, we're talking about a small detail which will not happen very often in a character's career. The whole concept is more for a roleplaying background then something which should be set in rules. Creative DM-ing is the keyword I guess.
Ok, thanks, that answers my question. |
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Afterlife of the False and/or Faithless of Races
