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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jan 2012 : 13:47:28
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Poll Question:
....of Shade Enclave. For your convenience, I copied the description of each prince from the Lords of Darkness sourcebook and some from wiki. Perhaps it’s a bit unfair for the other princes who didn’t get enough novel time to be included in the poll, but as I understand, not everyone here reads the novels, so their choice most likely depends on how they use the princes in their games.
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Rivalen - is the first of the twelve Princes of Shade. Rivalen is an accomplished wizard but also The Nightseer, a high priest of Shar, the goddess of loss and night. This makes him what the Netheril call a Theurge, blending the magic of the Art and the Power. If High Prince Telamont is the temporal ruler of the Shadovars, Prince Rivalen is their spiritual leader. From the massive Hall of Shadow located near the royal palace, the prince administers Shar's clergy and pronounces her will to the faithful. The prince's divination enabled his father to finally guide the city back to Faerun, where Shar hopes the Shadovars tip the balance of power in her favor in the long struggle against her hated sister, Selune.
Rivalen orchestrated, with the help of his brother Brennus, the takeover of the land of Sembia and its reduction to a vassal state of the City of Shade.
Rivalen Tanthul is now a demigod/exarch, having absorbed a shard of Mask's power after helping Erevis Cale and Drasek Riven kill Kesson Rel.
Clariburnus - is the youngest captain in the city's military. Though gossip hints that his meteoric rise is due in no small part to his high birth, those who know the prince recognize his worth as a warrior and a tactical commander. He has not yet expressed an opinion about how Shadovars should conquer the Heartlands, largely because no one has yet asked him.
Yder - is the right hand of his older brother Prince Rivalen Tanthul, whilst being respected and feared as a warrior.
By 1372 DR, Yder is a warrior dedicated to the cause of his deity, commanding the guards of the Hall of Shadow and undertakes church-sponsored missions. One such mission he undertook was the infiltration of Shadowdale in 1374 DR, where by creating a Shadow Simulacrum of himself he managed to possess Lord Mourngrym Amcathra. This allowed the Army of Darkhope to take control of the Dale with little resistance.
Melegaunt - was one of the youngest princes out of his twelve brothers and a spy from Thultanthar, now referred to as the City of Shade. He had a barely above average aptitude in the magical arts, but was trained exactly like the rest of the princes and the secret kept safe on pain of death by order of his father, Telamont. What Melegaunt lacks in arcane aptitude, however, he makes up for in guile. He has a knack for deception, combined with a talent of false empathy, that makes him a formidable manipulator. There were few people outside the royal family that he could not win over with his combination of charm, good looks, and seeming sincerity. Indeed, he practically made it his life's work. It is believed that he tricked Galaeron Nihmedu into opening the Sharn Wall in Evereska thus unleashing an army of Phaerimm in Faerûn.
Lamorak - was appointed a decade ago by his father to oversee the Determinists' Guild. It is Lamorak and his fellow Determinists who administer the tests to each Shadovar in order to determine how they may best serve the City of Shade. He is also in charge of the closely guarded process of selecting and transforming deserving Shadovars into shades.
The prince's politics are relatively neutral, but when all is said and done he thinks that it might be wise for the High Prince to manipulate, rather than enter open war against, the city's enemies at this time.
Dethud - is perhaps the most reserved of the twelve princes. His reputation for silence is famous throughout the City of Shade. He rarely speaks directly to anyone, and when he does, it is usually with the voice of wisdom.
Among the royal family, Dethud is the closest thing to a peacemaker. The other eleven princes continue to seek Dethud's advice on many of their most vexing problems and private quarrels. Dethud rarely takes sides in such matters, but analyzes the situation and offers incisive, logical solutions.
The High Prince often includes Dethud in military or political councils, making the quiet prince the second most influential of his brethren after Telamont. When pressed for his opinion regarding the best means of achieving his father's goal of conquest, Dethud favors Melegaunt's policy of manipulation.
Aglarel - took over as commander of the High Prince's personal bodyguard when the City of Shade returned to Faerûn. He knows that it is only matter of time before the High Prince is the target of an assassination attempt - but whether that attempt is directed by an enemy government, a secret organization such as the Harpers, or one of his own brothers, he doesn't know. He doesn't really care, either, because Aglarel has no interest in what he sees as pointless political and power squabbles. He is loyal to his father first and foremost and devotes every waking minute to protecting him.
Brennus - is the youngest brother among the princes, and many would say that Telamont has a special fondness for him. Identified early as an intellectual prodigy, the boy was placed in the hands of the city's finest tutors and educators.
Although Brennus displayed the royal family's expected facility with arcane magic, his teachers noted that he showed an equally strong aptitude for history. At his father's direction, Brennus's tutors focused the prince's education on the rich history and lore of the Shadovar. Brennus thrived in this discipline, and today he is one of the City of Shade's foremost experts on its Netherese roots.
It is he who has located the remnants of Netheril still extant in Faerûn and sent expeditions to these sites to recover what treasures and knowledge remain there. The prince is convinced that the arcane power hidden in the ruins of Netheril holds the key to that plan's success.
Mattick and Vattick - are twins. Black-haired and black-eyed, they are perfect replicas of one another. (Mattick is the elder by 2 minutes.) It is virtually impossible for anyone other than their parents to distinguish one from the other. The twins have used their identical appearance to perpetrate innumerable conspiracies and jokes, some benign and others much less so, on the royal household since they were old enough to walk. They are inseparable, rarely found any great distance from one another. The princes divide their time between research at the academy of alchemy and helping their youngest brother Brennus seek out clues to the locations of old Netherese sites. They side with Brennus and Hadrhune, whom they idolize, in supporting the swift destruction of all threats to Shadovar rule.
Rapha. He wasn’t mentioned in Lords of Darkness. The following entry is from wiki, but it doesn’t state a source, so I am not sure if it’s fanfic or canon. I cannot verify it either, because there’s {almost) nary a mention of him in Return of the Archwizards. According to that site, Rapha is highly pragmatic, caring little for anyone other than himself. He follows Shar only outwardly, and inwardly could care less about the gods and goddesses that rule the world, as long as they aren't bothering him. He is somewhat loyal to his family and the rest of the Shadovar, but really only remains with them because having access to their wealth and influence benefits him. Of course, he is careful to hide these thoughts from his father. He plans on one day wresting control of the Shadovar from his father.Rapha is obsessed with magic, and is constantly trying to become more powerful in this aspect. Magical items are one of his greatest obsessions, and he also enjoys making constructs and other magical servants. He uses the shadow weave for most of his magic because he finds its power highly useful. He's in love with violence and power, and enjoys manipulating others to his own ends. His greatest weaknesses are his pride and lust. He sees himself as better than most everyone else, and lusts after both power and women. If he sees something he wants, he expects to get it. No questions asked.Rapha can appear to be very friendly and outgoing when one meets him. Many have called him unusually charismatic, a trait that has earned him many loyal followers. He uses his infernal abilities to make himself appear to be completely human (or whatever race is the norm for the land he is in), and usually finds it rather easy to get along with others. That doesn't mean he trusts them, of course, and while he has friends he is always wary of them.
Rapha uses his magic in a fight, creating grand shows of destruction and terror. However, if it is necessary he has an arsenal of quick deadly spells at his disposal as well. He knows a rather large variety of spells, and uses them for more than just combat. Aside from his magic, he also has training in Two-Weapon Fighting, specifically with a whip and sword combination. His magical items and feats allow him to excel in them regardless of his minimal training. He prefers to fight from a distance, utilizing magic or his whip and sword, both of which have great reach.
Escanor – Strangely, he wasn’t described either in Lords of Darkness. But for those of you who read Return of the Archwizards, he’s the one who led the small Shadovar troop that rid Myth Drannor of the phaerimm, who organized and led the casting of the Shadowshell around Evareska, and who made Galaeron almost die with jealousy.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2012 : 13:48:52
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Needless to say, I like all the princes. Melegaunt is a nigh-perfect manipulator. Even the elves fell prey to his subtle manipulation. Rivalen is a bastard, but it was fun getting to know him. Brennus…there’s nothing not to like about him. He’s the most humanized of all the princes, too. Dethud is quite interesting. I was surprised to learn he’s actually a necromancer. I wonder though if he can remain to be a “peacemaker” once he learns of his brother’s matricide.
Since I have to choose just one, I’d go with Brennus. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2012 : 22:28:38
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I don't care for any of them  |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2012 : 23:14:57
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Ditto.
I had Irencius resurrected in my game for the sole purpose of having him murder one of the Shade Princes to take his place then work to dismantle the Netheril empire.
Manshoon and a Lich are helping.
Amusingly, the PCs took a morally ambiguous situation and asked how they could help those two despite being mortal foes with both. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2012 : 01:08:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
....of Shade Enclave. For your convenience, I copied the description of each prince from the Lords of Darkness sourcebook and some from wiki. Perhaps it’s a bit unfair for the other princes who didn’t get enough novel time to be included in the poll, but as I understand, not everyone here reads the novels, so their choice most likely depends on how they use the princes in their games.
---
Rivalen - is the first of the twelve Princes of Shade. Rivalen is an accomplished wizard but also The Nightseer, a high priest of Shar, the goddess of loss and night. This makes him what the Netheril call a Theurge, blending the magic of the Art and the Power. If High Prince Telamont is the temporal ruler of the Shadovars, Prince Rivalen is their spiritual leader. From the massive Hall of Shadow located near the royal palace, the prince administers Shar's clergy and pronounces her will to the faithful. The prince's divination enabled his father to finally guide the city back to Faerun, where Shar hopes the Shadovars tip the balance of power in her favor in the long struggle against her hated sister, Selune.
Rivalen orchestrated, with the help of his brother Brennus, the takeover of the land of Sembia and its reduction to a vassal state of the City of Shade.
Rivalen Tanthul is now a demigod/exarch, having absorbed a shard of Mask's power after helping Erevis Cale and Drasek Riven kill Kesson Rel.
Clariburnus - is the youngest captain in the city's military. Though gossip hints that his meteoric rise is due in no small part to his high birth, those who know the prince recognize his worth as a warrior and a tactical commander. He has not yet expressed an opinion about how Shadovars should conquer the Heartlands, largely because no one has yet asked him.
Yder - is the right hand of his older brother Prince Rivalen Tanthul, whilst being respected and feared as a warrior.
By 1372 DR, Yder is a warrior dedicated to the cause of his deity, commanding the guards of the Hall of Shadow and undertakes church-sponsored missions. One such mission he undertook was the infiltration of Shadowdale in 1374 DR, where by creating a Shadow Simulacrum of himself he managed to possess Lord Mourngrym Amcathra. This allowed the Army of Darkhope to take control of the Dale with little resistance.
Melegaunt - was one of the youngest princes out of his twelve brothers and a spy from Thultanthar, now referred to as the City of Shade. He had a barely above average aptitude in the magical arts, but was trained exactly like the rest of the princes and the secret kept safe on pain of death by order of his father, Telamont. What Melegaunt lacks in arcane aptitude, however, he makes up for in guile. He has a knack for deception, combined with a talent of false empathy, that makes him a formidable manipulator. There were few people outside the royal family that he could not win over with his combination of charm, good looks, and seeming sincerity. Indeed, he practically made it his life's work. It is believed that he tricked Galaeron Nihmedu into opening the Sharn Wall in Evereska thus unleashing an army of Phaerimm in Faerûn.
Lamorak - was appointed a decade ago by his father to oversee the Determinists' Guild. It is Lamorak and his fellow Determinists who administer the tests to each Shadovar in order to determine how they may best serve the City of Shade. He is also in charge of the closely guarded process of selecting and transforming deserving Shadovars into shades.
The prince's politics are relatively neutral, but when all is said and done he thinks that it might be wise for the High Prince to manipulate, rather than enter open war against, the city's enemies at this time.
Dethud - is perhaps the most reserved of the twelve princes. His reputation for silence is famous throughout the City of Shade. He rarely speaks directly to anyone, and when he does, it is usually with the voice of wisdom.
Among the royal family, Dethud is the closest thing to a peacemaker. The other eleven princes continue to seek Dethud's advice on many of their most vexing problems and private quarrels. Dethud rarely takes sides in such matters, but analyzes the situation and offers incisive, logical solutions.
The High Prince often includes Dethud in military or political councils, making the quiet prince the second most influential of his brethren after Telamont. When pressed for his opinion regarding the best means of achieving his father's goal of conquest, Dethud favors Melegaunt's policy of manipulation.
Aglarel - took over as commander of the High Prince's personal bodyguard when the City of Shade returned to Faerûn. He knows that it is only matter of time before the High Prince is the target of an assassination attempt - but whether that attempt is directed by an enemy government, a secret organization such as the Harpers, or one of his own brothers, he doesn't know. He doesn't really care, either, because Aglarel has no interest in what he sees as pointless political and power squabbles. He is loyal to his father first and foremost and devotes every waking minute to protecting him.
Brennus - is the youngest brother among the princes, and many would say that Telamont has a special fondness for him. Identified early as an intellectual prodigy, the boy was placed in the hands of the city's finest tutors and educators.
Although Brennus displayed the royal family's expected facility with arcane magic, his teachers noted that he showed an equally strong aptitude for history. At his father's direction, Brennus's tutors focused the prince's education on the rich history and lore of the Shadovar. Brennus thrived in this discipline, and today he is one of the City of Shade's foremost experts on its Netherese roots.
It is he who has located the remnants of Netheril still extant in Faerûn and sent expeditions to these sites to recover what treasures and knowledge remain there. The prince is convinced that the arcane power hidden in the ruins of Netheril holds the key to that plan's success.
Mattick and Vattick - are twins. Black-haired and black-eyed, they are perfect replicas of one another. (Mattick is the elder by 2 minutes.) It is virtually impossible for anyone other than their parents to distinguish one from the other. The twins have used their identical appearance to perpetrate innumerable conspiracies and jokes, some benign and others much less so, on the royal household since they were old enough to walk. They are inseparable, rarely found any great distance from one another. The princes divide their time between research at the academy of alchemy and helping their youngest brother Brennus seek out clues to the locations of old Netherese sites. They side with Brennus and Hadrhune, whom they idolize, in supporting the swift destruction of all threats to Shadovar rule.
Rapha. He wasn’t mentioned in Lords of Darkness. The following entry is from wiki, but it doesn’t state a source, so I am not sure if it’s fanfic or canon. I cannot verify it either, because there’s {almost) nary a mention of him in Return of the Archwizards. According to that site, Rapha is highly pragmatic, caring little for anyone other than himself. He follows Shar only outwardly, and inwardly could care less about the gods and goddesses that rule the world, as long as they aren't bothering him. He is somewhat loyal to his family and the rest of the Shadovar, but really only remains with them because having access to their wealth and influence benefits him. Of course, he is careful to hide these thoughts from his father. He plans on one day wresting control of the Shadovar from his father.Rapha is obsessed with magic, and is constantly trying to become more powerful in this aspect. Magical items are one of his greatest obsessions, and he also enjoys making constructs and other magical servants. He uses the shadow weave for most of his magic because he finds its power highly useful. He's in love with violence and power, and enjoys manipulating others to his own ends. His greatest weaknesses are his pride and lust. He sees himself as better than most everyone else, and lusts after both power and women. If he sees something he wants, he expects to get it. No questions asked.Rapha can appear to be very friendly and outgoing when one meets him. Many have called him unusually charismatic, a trait that has earned him many loyal followers. He uses his infernal abilities to make himself appear to be completely human (or whatever race is the norm for the land he is in), and usually finds it rather easy to get along with others. That doesn't mean he trusts them, of course, and while he has friends he is always wary of them.
Rapha uses his magic in a fight, creating grand shows of destruction and terror. However, if it is necessary he has an arsenal of quick deadly spells at his disposal as well. He knows a rather large variety of spells, and uses them for more than just combat. Aside from his magic, he also has training in Two-Weapon Fighting, specifically with a whip and sword combination. His magical items and feats allow him to excel in them regardless of his minimal training. He prefers to fight from a distance, utilizing magic or his whip and sword, both of which have great reach.
Escanor – Strangely, he wasn’t described either in Lords of Darkness. But for those of you who read Return of the Archwizards, he’s the one who led the small Shadovar troop that rid Myth Drannor of the phaerimm, who organized and led the casting of the Shadowshell around Evareska, and who made Galaeron almost die with jealousy.
 Dude please go a month with out making yet another poll scroll.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2012 : 01:09:43
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
I don't care for any of them
Indeed.
They should have been spellplagued back into the shadows. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2012 : 05:07:10
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I thought this was going to be a poll on various royal families within the Realms -- not just a focus on one specific family. 
I'm no fan of Shade, so I have no thoughts on any of them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2012 : 05:54:22
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I hate the princes of shade, they seem like absurd deux ex machina.
There is no way a society could exist worshiping a goddess of entropy who wants to return the world to nothingness : / They are also absurdly over powered>
I have to vote for Rivalen in the hopes he'll kill his father and have the ensuing chaos make the Netherese Empire more palpable. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2012 : 09:59:14
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| From the description Lamorak is my favorite, others should listen to him |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2012 : 13:04:53
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
There is no way a society could exist worshiping a goddess of entropy who wants to return the world to nothingness : / They are also absurdly over powered>
Most of the princes are not ---let me repeat that ---are not devout Sharrans. They worship her for practical reasons, survival being the prominent one. In fact, Brennus now hates Shar. In the excerpt of Godborn, he even called her bitch.
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I have to vote for Rivalen in the hopes he'll kill his father and have the ensuing chaos make the Netherese Empire more palpable.
I suspect he would be de-powered in Paul's latest trilogy. Otherwise, the entire Tanthul family, and by extension, their empire, would be in turmoil. It's only a matter of time till all the princes learn of Rivalen's matricide. Not even Telamont's threat would prevent Brennus from revealing the truth. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2012 : 13:09:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
From the description Lamorak is my favorite, others should listen to him
His political views are the same with Dethud's and Melegaunt's. And Hardhrune's, too. The seneschal used to be an "unofficial" royalty. Telamont valued his advice dearly. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 02 Jan 2012 20:26:19 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2012 : 18:23:46
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| none of them |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2012 : 23:38:14
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Yeah the title is very misleading.
It should be renamed: Favorite Shade Royalty.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2012 : 05:30:18
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None. Disliked the entire concept of Shade and the princes, and in my own Realms they never existed.
Can't stand Shar as an entropy goddess, either. *shrug*
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2012 : 14:06:38
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'Tis interesting that someone votes Rivalen. I thought everyone hates him.
On a side note, if I recall it right, it was mentioned in RotA that Melegaunt was the most handsome and charming of the Tanthuls. Must have greatly helped him in manipulating everyone. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2012 : 15:47:48
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| Rivalen... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2012 : 01:46:16
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quote:
Originally posted by GRYPHON
Rivalen...
Care to share why?
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Hmmm. A few votes with no comments. Guests, perhaps? |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 04 Jan 2012 13:13:22 |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 02:05:32
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To tell the truth I haven't read any of the books related to the Shades. I only know what's in things like Lords of Darkness.
@Therise - Why do you dislike Shar as the goddess of entropy? How would you envision a better entropic/night deity? I always thought of her as being a perfect archtypal entropy deity, and vague enough to make her whatever you want. I don't actually know what Matricide we're referring too. I've never even seen any of these books at a store (and I always look whenever i'm at a mall...)
I just don't like that she had an organized Church. My problem with her in regards to the Shades is that she is a goddess who wants the world to return to nothing doesn't seem like the sort to support the building of empires, permanent temples, and so forth. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 02:18:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
@Therise - Why do you dislike Shar as the goddess of entropy? How would you envision a better entropic/night deity? I always thought of her as being a perfect archtypal entropy deity, and vague enough to make her whatever you want. I don't actually know what Matricide we're referring too. I've never even seen any of these books at a store (and I always look whenever i'm at a mall...)
I think they've focused on her entropy aspect to the exclusion of all else. It's fine to have it in her list of portfolios, but they've made it into her big thing. Shar is so much more than just entropy/loss and evil madness, to my way of thinking. Shadow can also be comforting, darkness can be helpful, I never pictured her as a totally evil goddess (nor Selune as a totally good goddess).
Also, I think the "matricide" that people are referring to is in one of the novels where it's revealed that Shar (apparently) commanded Rivalen to kill his mother. He did, but he was seen by at least one of his shady brothers.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 03:46:02
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I agree with you that I don't see her as totally evil either. This might be another topic entirely, though = P
You'll notice in On Hallowed Ground from the Planescape setting a deity of entropy and oblivion Siva from Hinduism is "Neutral Evil". [real world talk] Yet of the people who actually worship him obviously do not think he is evil. Siva is destroying the world but not completely.[/real world talk] Shar may be bitter but she did create the world in the first place with Selune's help? Or at least that is my understanding. She wants to destroy and bring things to nothingness but not necessarily all at once. I think she should be Evil but she should have followers who aren't, even most of her followers. How evil they make her seems way over the top. If Shar were slain I imagine the world would be too full of energy and so be destroyed. Imagine if the sun never set, if nobody ever died...
Selune used to dwell [in earlier editions] in a plane that was Chaotic Neutral/Good, the same place where the viking deities dwelt. In my own imagination I imagine her alignment shifting from Chaotic Neutral (Or Chaotic in 4th edition) to Chaotic Good with the phases of the moon. In Ed Greenwood's Dragon Article where he unveiled them Selune dies each month (when there is no moon) then is slowly resurrected.
In my own envisioning of the world I've had the Dark Moon Heresy become a huge faith in Sembia. (Mainly after reading The Mistress of the Night) Where they are neither evil, nor good, but revere both deities as necessary. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 13:26:49
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
To tell the truth I haven't read any of the books related to the Shades. I only know what's in things like Lords of Darkness.
I just don't like that she had an organized Church. My problem with her in regards to the Shades is that she is a goddess who wants the world to return to nothing doesn't seem like the sort to support the building of empires, permanent temples, and so forth.
That's the irony. In fact, in Twilight War, Rivalen's role as the Nightseer is at war with his role as a prince of Shade. Shar wants to end the world, but Telamont want to rebuild Netheril and conquer the world. However, Rivalen is able to reconcile the two roles. He'd help his father achieve his goals, enjoy their success for as long as they can, then eventually enforce his goddess's schemes to bring all things to oblivion.
Telamont has always been "secretive" of his feelings towards Shar, and of his thoughts about Shar's ultimate goal. Even when he learned of Shar's command to Rivalen to kill Alashar, he never showed any outburst of emotions (which would have been understandable, given how much he loved his wife). One can only assume that whatever it is he's hiding is something Shar would never like at all... It's also possible that he has contingencies in case Shar forces Rivalen and all her faithful within Shade Enclave and around all of Toril to mobilize and fulfill her grandest scheme. In a way, he also contradicted Shar's wishes. In Twilight, one may suppose that Shar wanted the Shadowstorm to consume the world, or at the very least, a big portion of it. But Telamont explicitly told Rivalen to stop it, and even asked him if perhaps he's not the right man for the job, considering his relationship with Shar. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 05 Jan 2012 14:50:01 |
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 13:32:15
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| I vote for whichever one of them is most likely to snap and kill all the others... Or pilot their Big Floaty Plot Device right back into the Plane of Shadow. |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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LastStand
Learned Scribe
130 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 17:07:54
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| Lol, lots of hate for the princes eh. Well my pick would be Brennus. I like the way he was portrayed in the Twilight war and his devotion to his mother is touching. |
"Don't. The battlegrounds that you and I have returned from alive are too different."
~ Claymore ch106 |
Edited by - LastStand on 05 Jan 2012 17:09:09 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 17:34:18
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I'd love it if they had Telamont come out as a secret worshiper of Selune, having turned his back on Shar long ago. Then have Telamont show Rivalen the true meaning of pain and loss.
In fact, having been under Shar's oppression for eons, a large number of secret cults (dedicated to the good gods) should have sprung up in Netheril over the past 100 years. If I were a meddling Harper, the first thing I'd have done (even before the Spellplague) is hold secret meetings to introduce the populace to other gods and undermine Shar's worship.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 18:05:29
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quote:
Originally posted by LastStand
Lol, lots of hate for the princes eh. Well my pick would be Brennus. I like the way he was portrayed in the Twilight war and his devotion to his mother is touching.
Indeed. He is the most "humanized" of them all. His homunculis also stress that fact. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 05 Jan 2012 19:18:58 |
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 18:45:44
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Great Poll Dennis!
I love the Princes of Shade and Netheril! These are what villains in the Realms *should* be like; multifaceted, gritty, and powerful. "The Twilight War" is one of the best trilogies ever to bear the 'Forgotten Realms' imprint.
My personal favorite Prince, based on canon, would be Brennus, just because he seems the most 'good' of the Princes, and his Summoning Chamber/Divination Chamber is just TOO AWESOME! I also like Aglarel a lot; he hasn't been given much screen time in a sourcebook or novel, but in my campaign... watch out!
Rivalen is shown to be *such* a dynamic character in "The Twilight War". Paul S. Kemp *really* gets, and portrays fantastically, just what the psychology (not that such a thing exists in the Realms) of someone who worships Entropy is like, and just how twisted the schemes of the Lady of Loss really can be...
Anyway, fantastic Poll, Dennis; thank you for taking the time to put it all together! I'm sure will see much more of these fantastic villains in Realmslore down the pipeline...
And I can't wait!
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 19:09:43
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Thanks, Lady Swiftstrike Assassin!
We will definitely see more of them in Paul's new series---the Cycle of Night. Something to celebrate! |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 05 Jan 2012 19:10:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 19:10:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Don't mind the haters. Most of them haven't read the novels, anyway.
That's a rather dismissive attitude, and likely an unfair characterization, as well. Most of our scribes do take care to read books before forming opinions on their content.
Dismissing those who disagree with you by calling them haters who haven't read the books is applying the same generalization to them that you're accusing them of applying to the Shades.
I, personally, have zero interest in the princes of Shade -- and it's because of everything I've read about Shade that I feel this way. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 19:16:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Don't mind the haters. Most of them haven't read the novels, anyway.
That's a rather dismissive attitude, and likely an unfair characterization, as well. Most of our scribes do take care to read books before forming opinions on their content.
Dismissing those who disagree with you by calling them haters who haven't read the books is applying the same generalization to them that you're accusing them of applying to the Shades.
I, personally, have zero interest in the princes of Shade -- and it's because of everything I've read about Shade that I feel this way.
Hate and indifference are two different things. One's lack of interest may not be indicative of hate, but simply just.
I usually ignore people who express their dislike/hate towards the Shadovar. 'Tis better than engaging in a pointless argument.
Oh, well, I don't want to digress further, nor do I want to encourage others to do the same, so I deleted that part of my previous post. I hope this is the end of such sidetrack. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 05 Jan 2012 19:27:14 |
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 19:52:45
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Exactly, Wooly Rupert!
What did you think of "The Twilight War", Wooly? |
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Topic |
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Favorite Royalty
