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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Dec 2011 : 22:44:39
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This question is directed towards any of the authors or designers who frequent the boards. I've always wondered if we will ever see any action in Returned Abeir in the form of lore books or novels.
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2011 : 00:21:17
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| Short story in Realms of the Dead by Bruce Cordell. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2011 : 05:50:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Short story in Realms of the Dead by Bruce Cordell.
Oh right! I remember that one. I though it was a pretty good story. Well I hope they write a full novel. |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2011 : 20:39:14
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| Probably not a lot of stories planned there. Excuse me for being a cynic, but WotC seems like they want to keep huge sections of the Realms as fluff free as possible, for gaming purposes. *Sigh*. When will they learn the huge help fluff is to gaming, just as much as utilitarian crunch? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2011 : 22:26:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Probably not a lot of stories planned there. Excuse me for being a cynic, but WotC seems like they want to keep huge sections of the Realms as fluff free as possible, for gaming purposes. *Sigh*. When will they learn the huge help fluff is to gaming, just as much as utilitarian crunch?
It's not a huge help to those who cherry-pick the rules, looking for ever-kewler ways to build their characters. And that, sadly, seems to be more of WotC's targeted demographic, as opposed to those who want pure lore and rich detail. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 19:44:28
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I think we all know why Returned Abeir was created: It was a late-into-development decision, when they received so much backlash over the fact that Ed Greenwood wasn't involved, and then they needed some obscure corner to stick him in (just so they could put his name on the book, in hopes someone would buy it).
That's my opinion, and NO-ONE will ever change that. Returned Abeir is completely pointless, since everything there was already available (including the new, uber-kewl 4e races) in Faerun-proper. I'm not saying its bad - quite the contrary - its probably the most consistent work in that tome - but it is still pointless, regardless of who wrote it.
If Maztica was considered useless - a land VERY different then anything found in Faerûn - because it was "way across the ocean" and no-one ever used it, how much worse is a land that has nothing new to add, that is just as isolated as Maztica was? While they claim to have stream-lined both the setting and rules, that major bit of redundancy is some epic-level hypocrisy.
It was a last-minute decision, and a poor one at that. No-one can convince me otherwise.
I'm not trying to re-launch an edition war (I am way over that by now, as I hope we all are), but I know how things fell out after the first 4e announcements were made, and I simply will not believe anything to the contrary (like I said, regardless of who says otherwise). It was just one of the many, MANY things that looked 'rushed' when it came to the final 4e FR setting.
And like I said, I no longer care. No use crying over spilled Rothe Milk. Whats done is done, and we should move on. Hopefully Returned Abeir (which everyone will recall didn't even have a name when the new setting was launched!  ) will go the way of Ao, and many of those delicious sub-plots... it will go quietly into the night (when 5e is launched). I don't think writing more stories about it will be doing us (or them) and favors at this point. They need to stop embracing all the changes, and start reminding us why it is still The Forgotten Realms.
EDIT: I reiterate - ALL of the above is my opinion, nothing more. I do not dislike RA, I just have to ask, "Why?" |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Dec 2011 22:22:38 |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 20:33:14
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I always thought Maztica, Zakhara and Kara-Tur had potential, but were in desperate need of someone clever (preferably Ed Greenwood) coming in and shaking things up, retconning them into not being so clingy to real-world culture and history. Alas, that will never occur.
Ed did a good enough job on Returned Abeir, but from what I've read in his ask-and-answer thread he's been clear in the past that when it comes down to detailing far off parts of Toril vs. more detail in Faerun, he'd rather prefer to detail Faerun. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 22:26:52
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I don't think he was afforded the opportunity to do so when 4eFR was released.
I also heavily edited my above post - I had hoped most of my.... displeasure... had long been vented-off, but apparently some things continue to stick in my craw.
Ed did the best job possible - as always - with what he was permitted to work on, so once again, I have nothing bad to say about his contributions. I merely question the decision to develop that region in that manner.
And yeah, all of those areas (and others) had TONS of potential, but I suppose it was easier to just dump it, rather then fix it.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 22:30:10
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| Well, there's nothing stopping us here at Candlekeep from coming up with something on those abandoned regions and continents. In fact, I'm drafting up my own notes now, to go along with my upcoming Faerun campaign. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2011 : 22:47:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't think writing more stories about it will be doing us (or them) and favors at this point. They need to stop embracing all the changes, and start reminding us why it is still The Forgotten Realms.
EDIT: I reiterate - ALL of the above is my opinion, nothing more. I do not dislike RA, I just have to ask, "Why?"
I support most of what you said in the main body of your post. But I do object to this sentence. Personally I could care less what they do with the actual game product. But I do care greatly about the novels and I would like to see more books in different areas of the Realms. So yes, writing some novels set in Returned Abeir would be doing me a great service as well as WoTC because they would be getting my money for their effort. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2011 : 04:50:10
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| I would love to write a novel in Returned Abeir. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2011 : 05:25:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I would love to write a novel in Returned Abeir.
Well then hop to it Mr. James!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2011 : 19:36:30
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But then it wouldn't be a Forgotten Realms novel, merely a novel set on the planet Toril.
Just as a tale set in Zakhara would be a Al-Qadim novel, or one set in Kara-Tur would be an Oriental Adventures novel. Toril has 6 official settings (Maztica, The Horde, & Malatra being the other three), and Returned Abeir I consider a seventh. Being on the same world does not make it it the same setting.
FR is everything included on the 3rd edition campaign map, and nothing more, IMHO (except for maybe Nimbral, which WAS included in 2e). I don't even consider Evermeet part of the Realms (and it no longer is, thus proving I wasn't the only one who felt it needed to be 'more removed' from the mortal world). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Dec 2011 02:03:08 |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2011 : 20:23:16
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| Wait, when was Malatra it's own setting? All I remember of it was some vagueries in the Kara-Tur sourcebook. |
Edited by - Eladrinstar on 10 Dec 2011 20:23:28 |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2011 : 18:01:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
But then it wouldn't be a Forgotten Realms novel, merely a novel set on the planet Toril.
Just as a tale set in Zakhara would be a Al-Qadim novel, or one set in Kara-Tur would be an Oriental Adventures novel. Toril has 6 official settings (Maztica, The Horde, & Malatra being the other three), and Returned Abeir I consider a sixth. Being on the same world does not make it it the same setting.
FR is everything included on the 3rd edition campaign map, and nothing more, IMHO (except for maybe Nimbral, which WAS included in 2e). I don't even consider Evermeet part of the Realms (and it no longer is, thus proving I wasn't the only one who felt it needed to be 'more removed' from the mortal world).
Well, that is your opinion. As far as I'm concerned, if it's on Toril is's part of the Forgotten Realms. Heck, even if a novel were set in the Elemental Chaos or Faerie, as long as it involves a character who is from Toril I will consider it an FR novel.
Besides, Returned Abeir was introduced in a product branded with the Forgotten Realms name. I don't think there can be any argument that it isn't part of FR. But none of this matters really. I just want to see a novel set in that part of Toril. They can label it as a Greyhawk product for all I care. But then I guess that wouldn't make much sense. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2011 : 22:09:38
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| For me, the Forgotten Realms include all of Realmspace. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2011 : 22:40:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
For me, the Forgotten Realms include all of Realmspace.
Here, here! Which is why I mentioned novels that detail the rest of Toril on the Forgotten Realms Dream Novel scroll. |
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Edited by - Hawkins on 13 Dec 2011 22:43:35 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 01:06:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
For me, the Forgotten Realms include all of Realmspace.
Agreed.
For me, so long as it takes place anywhere in Realmspace, it's the FORGOTTEN REALMS. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 02:21:08
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I guess I'm in the minority then. I know what Ed sold to TSR, and it sure wasn't Realmspace (or Kara-Tur, or Zakhara, etc). In fact, I was a little disappointed when Corsair turned into a Spelljammer novel. Probably why I am hesitating buying Avenger.
By that definition, a novel that takes place anywhere, including Earth, could conceivably be a Forgotten Realms novel. Anyhow, I like the heartlands, and there are plenty of yet-to-be told stories set there - I don't really see what purpose FR novels set elsewhere even serve, but obviously thats just me. (I did read - and enjoy - the Empires trilogy, but avoided the Maztica one).
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
Wait, when was Malatra it's own setting? All I remember of it was some vagueries in the Kara-Tur sourcebook.
It was one of the two official settings run by the RPGA - it was called The Living Jungle, and had its own material (which was featured in Polyhedron). The other RPGA setting was The Living City, which was based around Ravens Bluff, so it wasn't a separate setting at-all, but rather, a sub-setting within the Forgotten Realms.
Material for Malatra/Living Jungle is next to impossible to find. I was able to track down someone who used to run some of it for the RPGA, and got my hands on the 'official sourcebook', along with a coupld of other goodies, but even then it was slim pickings.
Now I don't even have that, and I'll probably never find it again. 
Bald egyptian-like halfings and intelligent sauroid races! Oh-my! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Novels set in Returned Abeir?
