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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Sep 2011 : 05:59:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I doubt that many people would find their interest renewed in any existing game system just because a specific designer gets onboard.
Actually, I disagree. Certainly, I care little for the actual names on the D&D product, or a book, or film, or music video, or whatever. It's mildly interesting to see familiar names maintaining quality again and again, it's even good to see new names ... but really, about the only time I pay any attention to the creators' names at all is when they've managed to disappoint my expectations to such a degree that I refuse to give any of my attention (or business) ever again.
Still, the world at large celebrates celebrities. Monte Cook is, in grognard circles, something of a celebrity ... many people who might automatically dismiss, say, a 4E sourcebook might give it a much closer look if they see his trusted name on the cover. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2011 : 02:34:34
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| I have to agree with Shemmy. I am pretty attached to the Pathfinder Rules Set right now, and can't really imagine switching from a company I love and asks me what I want back to a company that I used to love until they started telling me what I want. However, if, somehow someway, the next edition of D&D was to work on being more compatible with 3.5 and Pathfinder, I could see maybe buying supplements from them again. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2011 : 05:41:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I have to agree with Shemmy. I am pretty attached to the Pathfinder Rules Set right now, and can't really imagine switching from a company I love and asks me what I want back to a company that I used to love until they started telling me what I want. However, if, somehow someway, the next edition of D&D was to work on being more compatible with 3.5 and Pathfinder, I could see maybe buying supplements from them again.
This is probably unlikely. From Mike Mearl's articles (which is now Monte's articles) titled Legends and Lore, he speaks of a very heavy modular system. Where characters shift, change, and I guess elements can be added at the whim of the DM or group to their liking. Apparently this will be more modular than 4th and much more so than 3rd edition.
Now, I'm not really understanding the idea of modular but I wasn't impressed all that much. To me, it sounded like a LOT of work on the DM's part to get it right. Sounds like a lot of guessing and Hit or Miss with the Party's level and what you want from Monsters. I just don't know if I'm ready to shell out more $$ for a new edition when I'm having loads of fun with v3.5, Pathfinder, and 4E. Hopefully it'll be 2 to 3 years off before we hear anything concrete. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2011 : 18:50:57
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The vibe I'm getting is that he's working on something other than 4E. At the same time, I couldn't imagine a 5E (or something similar) coming out before 2013. Also, around 2013 is when the 5th new Elminster book will probably come out, if not later. Just in time for Mystra to die again or be reborn. 
Something's changing in the wind, as they say. At this point, I think it's way too early to tell. Monte could be working on something other than D&D, for all we know. But it is fun to speculate. 
Modular... hmm. That word makes me think they're playing around with getting rid of levels. Possibly more of an E6 type of thing, where you continually play in the "sweet spot" but gain new abilities with experience in a "sideways" fashion rather than an "increasing" fashion.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2011 : 20:39:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Modular... hmm. That word makes me think they're playing around with getting rid of levels. Possibly more of an E6 type of thing, where you continually play in the "sweet spot" but gain new abilities with experience in a "sideways" fashion rather than an "increasing" fashion.
That is something I can get behind. More emphasis on the faucets of a character and not just how "powerful" one can get through the rules. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 04:28:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Modular... hmm. That word makes me think they're playing around with getting rid of levels. Possibly more of an E6 type of thing, where you continually play in the "sweet spot" but gain new abilities with experience in a "sideways" fashion rather than an "increasing" fashion.
That is something I can get behind. More emphasis on the faucets of a character and not just how "powerful" one can get through the rules.
Me too. It would also allow for more epic villain interactions at "low level" when played without the exponential power increase. And it wouldn't seem so strange to have non-epic interactions when you're very experienced, like a sneak thief who stumbles on a robbery and accidentally kills a high mage.
It would be much more narrative, and you'd totally avoid power bloat. Makes me wonder if it would shift "power" toward the accumulation of magic items, though.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 17:24:05
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quote:
Me too. It would also allow for more epic villain interactions at "low level" when played without the exponential power increase. And it wouldn't seem so strange to have non-epic interactions when you're very experienced, like a sneak thief who stumbles on a robbery and accidentally kills a high mage.
It would be much more narrative, and you'd totally avoid power bloat. Makes me wonder if it would shift "power" toward the accumulation of magic items, though.
It would depend on how they do magical items for it. As of now, 4E does the usual +1, +2, +3, etc.. magical item enhancement bonus. Then they put in an optional "inherent bonus" that is attached to weapons you wield. Not totally sure how it works but from what I hear it's based more on your flavor and style rather than changing that up for a better weapon. A fighter who loves fighing with heavy blades and has a +2 radiant greatsword then finds a +4 flaming battle-axe would be "mechanically speaking" better off using the battle-axe but loses out on character feel and look. Instead, it's just a radiant greatsword or a flaming battle-axe and the magical benefits to attack/damage are wiped away. I like that.
But PCs are going to accumilate all sorts of magical items, regardless of edition or style so I guess the question is a bit moot since it'll happen regardless if the designers want it or not. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 17:30:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
The vibe I'm getting is that he's working on something other than 4E. At the same time, I couldn't imagine a 5E (or something similar) coming out before 2013.
I couldn't imagine 4e before 2010 either. However, I got a rude awakening in mid-to-late 2007 telling me that it wasn't to be so. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 18:08:02
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This reply was taken from Monte's blog stating:
"Back to the Laboratory
A short while ago, I started working for Wizards of the Coast again, on D&D. I am currently working with talented members of the R&D staff, exploring various options and experimenting with the game. Which is to say, doing what I really love. At this point, you can think of me as a mad scientist in a rpg design laboratory, concocting crazy creations to see if any of them have any value.
I'm really not at all concerned with edition wars or arguments of that nature. Please don't try to drag me into those discussions. D&D is bigger than any of that, and my job is a lot more open ended and broad minded than such things. While I'm at it, let me also add, please don't make assumptions about what I'm doing based on things I've done in the past. The future is not yet written.
Speaking of writing (and the future), I'll be writing the Legends & Lore column at the Wizards' web site starting this week and going forward. I'll be using that as a venue to give you updates on my thoughts on these topics, new (and old) ideas, and experiments."
This makes me feel he'll be working on D&D stuff for 4E at the moment and for a while longer. Possibly designing stuff for future supplements (might or might not include another edition). I'm really excited to see what he rolls out with the 4E ruleset and I'm just excited for 4E stuff in general.
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Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 18:22:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
This reply was taken from Monte's blog stating:
"Back to the Laboratory
A short while ago, I started working for Wizards of the Coast again, on D&D. I am currently working with talented members of the R&D staff, exploring various options and experimenting with the game. Which is to say, doing what I really love. At this point, you can think of me as a mad scientist in a rpg design laboratory, concocting crazy creations to see if any of them have any value.
I'm really not at all concerned with edition wars or arguments of that nature. Please don't try to drag me into those discussions. D&D is bigger than any of that, and my job is a lot more open ended and broad minded than such things. While I'm at it, let me also add, please don't make assumptions about what I'm doing based on things I've done in the past. The future is not yet written.
Speaking of writing (and the future), I'll be writing the Legends & Lore column at the Wizards' web site starting this week and going forward. I'll be using that as a venue to give you updates on my thoughts on these topics, new (and old) ideas, and experiments."
This makes me feel he'll be working on D&D stuff for 4E at the moment and for a while longer. Possibly designing stuff for future supplements (might or might not include another edition). I'm really excited to see what he rolls out with the 4E ruleset and I'm just excited for 4E stuff in general.
He did a lot of good supplemental stuff for 3E, so that's what I expect from him for 4E.
His Ptolus material is also quite good, though I have a hard time wrapping my mind around adventurers gaining levels and doing much questing, without ever going beyond the city walls (instead going down under the city or up into the Spire). Love the concepts for Jevvica Noor and the Iron Mage. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 21:13:49
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Hmm...I'll have to look into what he's done for 3E (I probably have seen it and just not known it was him!). As for Ptolus, something to look into as well.
Also found this and thought it relevent:
Besides writing the L&L column, what endeavors will Monte Cook be involved in? Is he full time staff or a consultant?
Monte occupies a role very similar to Rob Schwalb, in that he is a staff designer who works remotely. The commute from Milwaukee to Seattle is a bit tough to handle on a daily basis. We’re conferencing with him several times a week via phone and Google Plus, and he’s visiting the Wizards offices frequently. I’m afraid I can’t go into much detail about the specific projects Monte is working on for us, simply because the products are still a ways out. That said: Monte is working on D&D, he’s doing design work as well as consulting, and we’re delighted to have him on board.
With Monte Cook back is there any chance we could see a Dungeon adventure or Dragon article set in Sigil?
Monte isn’t working on Dragon or Dungeon online Planescape content at the moment. We don’t have any immediate plans for any articles focused on Sigil. However, there’s no reason we wouldn’t entertain a Sigil adventure or backdrop that came to us through our submission process. We’re Planescape fans too!
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Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2011 : 02:53:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Love the concepts for Jevvica Noor and the Iron Mage.
Oh, yeah, the Iron Mage. That's still a concept I'm trying to find a place for in my Realms.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 05:36:38
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He wrote a Realms novel, The Glass Prison.
And its a really good one at that. I think I have read three or more times already. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2011 : 21:04:17
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I have an idea -
4e = "For Eberron" (get it? )
Then instead of a '5e', which most here obviously find distasteful (as would anyone who has invested heavily in 4e), we have a FRe, as in "D&D: Forgotten Realms edition", a system based entirely around the game world. (and a possible reboot)
Would that make everyone happy?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Considering the secrecy about the runup to 4E, I think that if they were hiring Mr. Cook back to work on 5E, they'd be very quiet about it. The fact that it's so readily known makes me think that whatever he's working on, it's not a new edition.
In light of the other thread, do you still feel this way?
My way of thinking is this - they are trying everything possible to close the floodgates, and letting us know that "Monte is here to fix things" seems like the appropriate approach (considering just how badly things went wrong with the other approach - secrecy). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2011 : 23:25:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I have an idea -
4e = "For Eberron" (get it? )
Then instead of a '5e', which most here obviously find distasteful (as would anyone who has invested heavily in 4e), we have a FRe, as in "D&D: Forgotten Realms edition", a system based entirely around the game world. (and a possible reboot)
Would that make everyone happy?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Considering the secrecy about the runup to 4E, I think that if they were hiring Mr. Cook back to work on 5E, they'd be very quiet about it. The fact that it's so readily known makes me think that whatever he's working on, it's not a new edition.
In light of the other thread, do you still feel this way?
My way of thinking is this - they are trying everything possible to close the floodgates, and letting us know that "Monte is here to fix things" seems like the appropriate approach (considering just how badly things went wrong with the other approach - secrecy).
I've already stated that I do believe he's working on 5E.
I wouldn't say that the secrecy approach for 4E went wrong -- they left a few clues, but most of us were surprised when we found out about it. My only complaint about the secrecy was when the development of 4E was denied mere months before they announced it and said they'd been playtesting for 18 months. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 02:16:06
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Hey they promised no new Editions, the only thing to look forward to is D&D (4th Edition) revisions. Set aside that minor detail that 3.0 was a final Edition and 3.5 was just a revision and all is well with the D&D World. Yes I am a little cynical about anything right now.
There clearly can be a better gaming product t be produced, it becomes a wait and see. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 02:26:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Hey they promised no new Editions, the only thing to look forward to is D&D (4th Edition) revisions. Set aside that minor detail that 3.0 was a final Edition and 3.5 was just a revision and all is well with the D&D World. Yes I am a little cynical about anything right now.
There clearly can be a better gaming product t be produced, it becomes a wait and see.
I do not recall them saying there would not be new editions. I think this would be a foolish claim for any company to make, too. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Nov 2011 02:29:28 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 02:58:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Hey they promised no new Editions, the only thing to look forward to is D&D (4th Edition) revisions. Set aside that minor detail that 3.0 was a final Edition and 3.5 was just a revision and all is well with the D&D World. Yes I am a little cynical about anything right now.
There clearly can be a better gaming product t be produced, it becomes a wait and see.
I do not recall them saying there would not be new editions. I think this would be a foolish claim for any company to make, too.
Oh well, I could try to search for the article or post, it might still exist. It was posted on the "forums not to be mentioned" or released in an online article that was discussed in the former. Basic statement was BD&D and AD&D was combined and it was not fair to call 4th, 4th, that it should be just D&D. Someone with WotC did post there would not be an Edition change. I could search out the thread and if finding give names, however considering how 4th came out it likely matters little. People at GenCom that spoke about the question of 4th, truthfully replied they knew of no such project. Those that knew did not speak of the issue, because of NDA.
I could search for the names, a few come to mind, but would need to be sure, and further clearly it matters on what they were told as opposed to what was planned. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2011 : 03:48:09
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I remember talk about them not "revising" 4E like they did with 3E, thus no need to re-print all the old PHB, MM, and DMGs with the new or changed rules and they've pretty much stuck by that. Any revisions they've made have been done for free via Errata-PDF page and the some other articles that's easily found using their search function and you don't need to be a DDI subscriber for any of this stuff. The biggest changes I've seen is minor things such as class powers, a few keywords which make features function a bit differently, and some feats.
There are some that say "Essentials" products are 4E's version of a revision though I've come to realize that they are largely ignorant of the actual system of the game and really don't understand what revision means in terms of what we saw from 3.0 to 3.5.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Then instead of a '5e', which most here obviously find distasteful (as would anyone who has invested heavily in 4e), we have a FRe, as in "D&D: Forgotten Realms edition", a system based entirely around the game world. (and a possible reboot)
Actually I'd embrace a 5E even with how heavily invested I am with 4th as long as it has elements that I consider fun and exciting to tell good stories. Mechanics do sway my opinion as I'd rather play/run 3E/PF/4E over AD&D/2E any day of the week so if it resembles a lot of that stuff then I doubt I'd buy any of it. The way I see it is that there is a division within his small group of people and it's not entirely good. WotC needs to make a system that caters to A LOT of people while keeping things in relative balance AND paying homage to iconic elements (auto-hitting Magic Missile, 6 stats of Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, & Cha; d20 for most rolls, and the four classes of Wizard, Figher, Cleric, and Rogue) to get people on board.
They need to take out a few of the "gamist" elements such as terms and phrases (defender, striker, and power's names), putting things back to feet instead of squares (even though I personally HATE converting the mechanics from feet to squares), and possibly, possibly more homage to Vancian spellcasting  because apparently it's not D&D without it *pfft*. I think with these starting* elements, you can lure people back from Pathfinder with a new edition while creating some really awesome mechanics that appeals to both lore and rules heavy gamers.
As for a specific Realms-based mechanics, I'd like to hear more and see what difference they have with common D&D and the like. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2011 : 04:27:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Hey they promised no new Editions, the only thing to look forward to is D&D (4th Edition) revisions. Set aside that minor detail that 3.0 was a final Edition and 3.5 was just a revision and all is well with the D&D World. Yes I am a little cynical about anything right now.
There clearly can be a better gaming product t be produced, it becomes a wait and see.
I do not recall them saying there would not be new editions. I think this would be a foolish claim for any company to make, too.
Please don't ask me for proof - all my saved threads are long gone (and many of those links no longer worked anyway).
Buuuuuuuut... I recall VIVIDLY a thread (it was not here or at wotC, but someone provided a link to it over at WotC) on some site - possibly EnWorld - wherein right after 4e's release, someone at a Euro-Gencon asked an official WotC employee who was attending if there was any plans for a 5e, and the answer was 'yes, of course. Nothing concrete, but it has been discussed'
It would be insane NOT to think that the day after they were finished designing ANY edition, that they were second-thinking themselves and considering what they would do different "the next time". Why wouldn't they? its completely normal. No-one (with any brains) finishes a job, and doesn't start thinking about the next.
From what I understand (after consulting the Aztec-RPG calender), the final edition will be 666e. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Monte Cook back working for WotC
