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Light
Learned Scribe
Australia
233 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 13:07:17
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So despite all this time (not long at all actually) I still do not understand some things about avatars and aspects. First off, what is an avatar? What I mean is, are they living people that a god will possess, an empty body they will possess or something entirely different? Second, from what I can remember (I could be wrong) a greater deity can have up to ten avatars at once (3e). With this in mind why would a god not just send his ten avatars to Faerun and further his goals and/or worship? Thirdly, when an avatar is active does the god have some sort of dual sense that allows him to control the avatar(s) fully while still controlling his true self or do they have minds of their own (though exactly like the god's own) and the god doesn't have complete control of them (not saying that they will rebel or run away or anything)?
Now on to aspects. How do they differ from an avatar? From what I understand they are the god but they have a sort of free-will or sense and are gods in their own right but I'm not sure. And with that said, how does one create an aspect? Also don't demon princes and archdevils have aspects (or avatars?) as well, and can't they enter the prime anytime they want. If so what's to stop them from sending their aspects to Faerun to cause a bit of terror (the gods?).
And finally, is there any disadvantage or 'catch' to creating an avatar or aspect? Do they become weaker?
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"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga) |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 17:22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by LightNow on to aspects. How do they differ from an avatar? From what I understand they are the god but they have a sort of free-will or sense and are gods in their own right but I'm not sure. And with that said, how does one create an aspect? Also don't demon princes and archdevils have aspects (or avatars?) as well, and can't they enter the prime anytime they want. If so what's to stop them from sending their aspects to Faerun to cause a bit of terror (the gods?).
I will have to dig out my copy of the Miniatures Handbook (has lots on Aspects) for a more complete answer but I can tell you what I remember off the top of my head. Gods, Demons, Devils, etc can all have aspects. The rest of this should be taken with the idea of it all falling under "if I remember correctly". Aspects are like a sliver or drop of their power that gains sentience. It's life is fairly brief. It acts seperate from it's source. One does not control the other. I do not remember if they can be forcefully created by the god/demon/devil in question or not, but I know they can be summoned to the prime material plane. They have attitudes like their source. I will dig out my book later and let you know if there is anything else important to know about them.
As a side note, I know a few of them ended up with miniatures. I think it's possible that the idea came about either so they could have miniatures representations (a full god or avatar would unbalance the skirmish game) or so the players could fight something that was a stand in for a god (because an actual god should be pretty far above and beyond the players).
Edit: I had a few minutes and I remembered the book wasn't buried somewhere so I went and got it. I was right on most of that. The beings who have aspects can call them into existance. They represent a portion of the being life force given life. They are living creatures (or undead as with an Aspect of Vecna), but their lives are very short (usually a day). They can also spontaneously come into existance on the home plane of the original being. They are usually single minded and don't get along with mortals. They are not extensions of their origin being and the original being can't see through the aspects eyes or know it's thoughts. The destruction of an aspect can temporarily weaken the original being because it is part of it's lifeforce. Aspects are focused on one aspect of their parent being and different Aspects could focus on different parts. Aspects can have varying power levels. Any being on the power level of a god, archfiend, or archdevil could have aspects. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
Edited by - Tyrant on 13 Sep 2011 17:33:31 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 20:27:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Light
Second, from what I can remember (I could be wrong) a greater deity can have up to ten avatars at once (3e). With this in mind why would a god not just send his ten avatars to Faerun and further his goals and/or worship?
One of my players asked me that once, my answer: A mere mortal could never hope to understand a god, including its reasoning behind its actions.
That pretty much sums it up for me. Another answer could be, if he sends all his avatars on Faerun, he might be in a weakened state by doing so, and is pretty much shouting it out to other gods. Some rival gods could take the advantage.
Oh, and there's also that balance thing. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 21:24:05
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First, while the Realms might be the powerhouse of faith which sustains them, it is after all only one small busy corner of an infinitely large universe. Deities need to manifest their avatars to perform tasks their proxies cannot accomplish in places they cannot reach; they operate on many different levels and constantly interact with other deities within the pantheon, or from other pantheons, or even fiends or celestials or whatnot.
Second, there are apparently cosmic laws which limit what deities are permitted to do in the Realms. Whether these are enforced by an entity like Ao or simply by peer policing.
Third, although their power is vast and incomprehensible, deities still need to budget and get best bang-for-the-buck economy. Perhaps four avatars in Faerūn can accomplish the deity's missions well enough, so no need to use ten ... especially if the other six could be useful elsewhere.
Fourth, and most importantly, one of the surest ways to destroy a deity is to kill it at the seat of its power, on the plane where it holds dominion. No deity would send all its avatars away and invite attack or risk destruction from competitors, conversely most wouldn't foolishly group all their avatars together where they could all be nuked at once (or, more likely, somehow prevented from connecting with the deity).
Most deities would generally hoard their avatars nearby for defensive purposes, or to monitor the activities of enemies, or to sustain spiritual belief in stronghold domains, to accomplish all sorts of divine goals they may not always choose to advertise, perhaps even to carry their faith to new worlds ... no doubt there's never enough avatars to go around, one could always use more. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 23:06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Light
And finally, is there any disadvantage or 'catch' to creating an avatar or aspect? Do they become weaker?
Yes: gods have a finite amount of power to assign between priests, proxies, avatars, Chosen, etc. |
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Salacar
Acolyte
Denmark
33 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 09:48:37
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A God can use both a willing Mortal body as his Avatar (As seen for example during the Times of Trouble), or he can split his essence into several Avatars (As seen during the Trials of Cyric and related novels). It is also important to note that when a Deity splits into several Avatars, the Deity is STILL all of the Avatars, despite how many there might be. They don't have a "will of their own", they're still all the same Deity (A good example of this is found during the Cyrinishad novels, where Mystra splits up into several avatars in order to talk to many other deities at the same time)
On your question about a deity sending out his or her Avatars to further their own goals: They do in fact do this, quite often actually. It is not unheard of for an avatar of Tempus to take part in great battles between mortals, for Mystra to help a Wizard in his research, etc.
The ONLY limitations a deity has on what they can or can't do in the Realms are defined entirely by their portfolios. So Tempus might be able (and quite willing) to participate in battles, but he could never save one of his cities from a flood or another natural disaster. While Talos could easily (and often does) ravage countries and cities with storms and destruction, yet he would never be allowed to save one of his cities from orc attacks.
As Faraer mentioned, a Deity's power is indeed finite. After the Times of Trouble their power, or "Divine Rank", started relying on the number of followers they have. Sharing their Divine power does in fact reduce their own avaiable power, even their Divine Rank. A good example is Mystra, who has split her power among several Chosens as well as another deity entirely, Azuth.
In fact I seem to recall that it was Ao who ordered her to split her essence thus, to make sure that she does not become too powerful compared to the other gods, which she would be if her power wasn't split among so many sources. |
Edited by - Salacar on 14 Sep 2011 09:59:13 |
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Avatars and Aspects - Some Questions
