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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Aug 2011 : 21:31:38
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I wish to see no more of the likes of the last D&D movies. I'd like the Realms movie to be as good as LotR, script-, cast-, budget-, and effects-wise. And it would be best to have Paul or Richard write the script. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 03:08:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Vampires by de Bie? And that Fox? I can't wait.
Not in Shadowbane, but the next novel. Oh yes.
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
mmmmm
Ilira Nathalan is hawt and has mad skills..... and dances superbly ....
Through shadows, no less.
A piece of advice: Never try fighting a shadowdancer in a room full of magical shadow. 
Cheers
who said anything about fighting her... CENSORED comment..... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 22 Aug 2011 03:35:31 |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 13:53:43
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Movies cannot capture what they need to capture storywise in only 2 hours(Average)
A TV show would be much better. Given the enormous success of Game of Thrones, who knows. They may decide to try another Fantasy setting. |
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AdamBridger
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
118 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 15:35:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
There are threads here about WotC's hesitation in doing a movie, but in brief: we all know what befell the D&D movie.
Generally, it's important for it to be done RIGHT, rather than just done for the sake of doing. The will, resources, script, and talent all have to be there, and we must wait until they all arrive at the same time.
Hmm. Script . . . hmm . . .
Cheers
I agree, a badly done film could do significantly more damage to the Realms than no film at all.
A Series could definately be a good option, Game of Thrones and Legend Of The Seeker I thought were very good. A series would also give more opportunity for showcasing the Realms with 12-24 episodes of 30-60 minutes giving much more time on screen than a 90-120 min film. |
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 16:25:01
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I think something animated might work, personally; you can do things with animation you just can't with live-action, like making the other races look more nonhuman without going the CG-people-interacting-with-real-people route, which can look awkward sometimes, and all-CG things can fall right into uncanny valley territory.
It's really just the foolishness of some people that has cartoons seen as a kids-only thing.
Animated magic would look better.
In anything else, you'd have to CG things like beholders, illithids and even elves, if you want your elves to look different, not just humans with pointed ears.
And if you went live-action... well. Blackface on drow? It'd mire the whole thing in controversy. |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 17:05:16
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Animation is, I think, the easiest route. I don't mind really, so long as it's neatly done. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 17:06:03
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not like thedragonlance one was...
the draconians all looked the same |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 17:06:41
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I agree that a tv show would probably be a better sell, and it would give you more of the room you needed. The issue then is what characters do you follow?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 17:30:30
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If it's going to be aired daily, they can have one fun adventure every week; and the party would be different in each adventure. Then at the last month of the season they can have an RSE-based plot that would utilize most if not all of the previously introduced characters... |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 22 Aug 2011 17:32:48 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36963 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 18:10:33
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I would prefer a new story, with new characters. As I've pointed out more than once, we've already had dozens, if not hundreds, of authors creating new stories and characters for the Realms. Why rehash an existing one when we can tell a new one?
As I've also pointed out in the past -- even Drizzt and Erevis were new characters, once. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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AdamBridger
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
118 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 18:12:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Shadowflame
I think something animated might work, personally; you can do things with animation you just can't with live-action, like making the other races look more nonhuman without going the CG-people-interacting-with-real-people route, which can look awkward sometimes, and all-CG things can fall right into uncanny valley territory.
It's really just the foolishness of some people that has cartoons seen as a kids-only thing.
Animated magic would look better.
In anything else, you'd have to CG things like beholders, illithids and even elves, if you want your elves to look different, not just humans with pointed ears.
And if you went live-action... well. Blackface on drow? It'd mire the whole thing in controversy.
That's a very good point. Animated films/series are a valid medium that is often overlooked. Every different story telling medium is equally valid and all have their strengths and weaknesses. That's why I think that that is why some comic book characters have struggled to make the transition to films as some things can be done in the comic medium that do not translate well to film.
Also CGI can be very expensive to do well. That is why many films today can have at least 10 times the budget or more as similar films from around 10 years ago. Transformers 3 recently had a budget of $195 million. Albeit Transformers is a heavy CGI film but even when compared to Lord of the Rings: Return Of The King (2003) budget of $100 million the costs are skyrocketing. Dungeons and Dragons (2000) had a budget of $35 million and to do a Forgotten Realms film today to a reasonable standard you would most probably at least need to double that figure. Even Series such as Legend of the Seeker had a estimated budget of £1.5 million per episode which would require major investment. |
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AdamBridger
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
118 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 18:20:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I agree that a tv show would probably be a better sell, and it would give you more of the room you needed. The issue then is what characters do you follow?
Cheers
I think I would prefer new characters specially developed for the series. However, to get a series off the ground I think a character such as Drizzt might have to chosen in order to get the investment funding. An anthology series might also work with 1-2 hour long episodes focussing on different aspects of the Realms. Perhaps different characters in the same region in a tale that builds up to a series finale special where they are all involved. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 19:36:56
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I think a big strength of the series format is the development of multiple characters within a party, though I'm not a big fan of the "challenge/trial of the week" format, wherein the characters have an overarching goal but are basically distracted with a sidequest every week (see Hercules, Xena, Legend of the Seeker, etc). I prefer show constructions that are based on one coherent story that stays the same all the way through, and each challenge is *directly* related to its completion, such as Game of Thrones (though I will say I don't have cable and haven't seen most of that, so I can't say for sure).
However, the necessary organizing principle to consider when scripting a TV show is to find a balance between these two: a way to make each episode able to stand alone so that you don't need to have seen all the previous episodes to know what's going on, but also be able to keep an overall story for people who do watch all of them. Look at the new Battlestar Galactica, for instance: most of those episodes could stand on their own, but at the same time you get a full picture of a greater story by watching each one.
We'd need a unifying force--say 6 characters drawn together out of a shared destiny, somehow. Are they being called by Elminster, for instance? Summoned to search for Gauntlgrym? Etc. Thoughts?
Also, I want to state, for the record, that I would gladly jump at the chance to be on the writing team.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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AdamBridger
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
118 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 21:09:20
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| One thing that I love about series is that once they have been running long enough or with enough episodes per series you can focus on some of the other characters. The extra time when compared to films give much greater opportunities to explore the supporting characters and add lots of depth to the series. Star Trek series in my opinion did this very well - Deep Space Nine's highly amusing Quark solo stories or The Next Generations holodeck episodes - which gave those series an extra dimension. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 23:11:01
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quote:
Originally posted by AdamBridger
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
There are threads here about WotC's hesitation in doing a movie, but in brief: we all know what befell the D&D movie.
Generally, it's important for it to be done RIGHT, rather than just done for the sake of doing. The will, resources, script, and talent all have to be there, and we must wait until they all arrive at the same time.
Hmm. Script . . . hmm . . .
Cheers
I agree, a badly done film could do significantly more damage to the Realms than no film at all.
A Series could definately be a good option, Game of Thrones and Legend Of The Seeker I thought were very good. A series would also give more opportunity for showcasing the Realms with 12-24 episodes of 30-60 minutes giving much more time on screen than a 90-120 min film.
Legend of the seeker was a travesty of story butchering. The only people I personally know who enjoyed that show did not read the books so they did not need to grind their teeth at how maimed the characters and story got. The friends who liked the show were also comparing it to Xena and Hercules, so I can understand the appeal.
Goodkind commented that he was badly embarrassed by it.
GRRM learned a thing from that and made sure he had final say in everything for Game of Thrones :) |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 23:58:10
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I really liked the TV adaptations for both Legend of the Seeker and Game of Thrones. I also liked the books, and I wouldn't call it "butchering" so much as it was adapted for TV (and I'm assuming they're talking about Legend of the Seeker because it did get a lot of modifications... but necessary ones for television). Thing is, with any TV adaptation you'll have to expect some changes. I think it's a real shame that Legend of the Seeker didn't last longer, as it was just getting its sea legs. Bridget Regan (sp?) was perfectly cast, I thought. It was similar in some ways to Xena and Hercules, but totally different in others. Those two were so very, very campy, and they did the camp thing really well; only rarely did they take themselves really seriously. Legend of the Seeker by comparison had almost no camp, took itself very seriously, and also was heavy on romance.
Game of Thrones has so far been extremely close to the books, like almost word for word. Excellent series also, and very, very serious. To me, it has the flavor of a really good period drama with tons of danger from all quarters.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 23:59:23
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| I think an animated series similar to the Clone Wars would be an excellent idea! We could have a sleu of new characters and rotate some of the more well-known heroes and villains in to keep that Realmsian feel. Anyone at WotC listening?!? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 00:06:54
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As a well-rounded nerd whose interests extend in that direction, I would also be down for an animated series. There are some great things one can do with animation these days.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 00:09:56
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| Make it happen, Erik. I will offer anything in my power. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 00:42:42
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| I was thinking I could just stab somebody. I'm not sure how that will help, but I'll do it. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 23 Aug 2011 00:49:37 |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 00:43:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
I really liked the TV adaptations for both Legend of the Seeker and Game of Thrones. I also liked the books, and I wouldn't call it "butchering" so much as it was adapted for TV (and I'm assuming they're talking about Legend of the Seeker because it did get a lot of modifications... but necessary ones for television). Thing is, with any TV adaptation you'll have to expect some changes. I think it's a real shame that Legend of the Seeker didn't last longer, as it was just getting its sea legs. Bridget Regan (sp?) was perfectly cast, I thought. It was similar in some ways to Xena and Hercules, but totally different in others. Those two were so very, very campy, and they did the camp thing really well; only rarely did they take themselves really seriously. Legend of the Seeker by comparison had almost no camp, took itself very seriously, and also was heavy on romance.
Game of Thrones has so far been extremely close to the books, like almost word for word. Excellent series also, and very, very serious. To me, it has the flavor of a really good period drama with tons of danger from all quarters.
I would definitely call it butchering, with dozens of unnecessary changes. In fact, the show did not follow the books whatsoever except for the characters names.
Wizards first rule was a terrific book. The emotional tension between Richard and Kahlan was primary to the story, and almost nonexistent in the show. Turning Darken Rahl to Richard's brother instead of father annoyed me to no end(For that matter, why was Darken Rahl's only power swinging a sword and being a lord? He was supposed to be a Elminster caliber wizard), and they butchered my absolute favorite part of the book. Tamarang castle where Giller selflessly sacrificed himself so that Rachel could escape with the box.
Richard's brother was supposed to be an antagonist, and they instead martyred him. Demmin Nass.......I was looking forward to Brophy the wolf's segments......
Richard himself was nothing like the problem solving Seeker in the book. He was a completely inept whelp who needed his friends to bail him out of everything in the show.
And what the hell was up with "having all 3 boxes makes you master of all?" The whole point of the boxes were that the correct one could not be opened without the knowledge(Which Richard had), not simply owning them.
The only Episode I enjoyed to a certain degree was the Mord Sith
And on and on and on......
Arg, I am on a huge hate rant now. In any case, Goodkind stated he will never allow anything he writes to be translated to the screen again due to the absolute disgrace they did his book. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 02:40:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
As a well-rounded nerd whose interests extend in that direction, I would also be down for an animated series. There are some great things one can do with animation these days.
An intriguing proposal. Especially given the "selected sections" of the Dragons of Autumn Twilight animated feature, which actually did manage to faithfully translate a TSR/Wizards fantasy world into the cartoon medium. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 02:55:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
I would definitely call it butchering, with dozens of unnecessary changes. In fact...
*shrug* I had the ability to enjoy both the original and the adaptation. No need to get upset about it, it's just TV.
With the other, Game of Thrones, I love it... but it follows the original so incredibly closely that there are zero surprises for me.
Take anything by Shakespeare, for instance. There have been SO many adaptations and re-interpretations since his original works that tons and tons of people have seen/read/experienced at least something of Shakespeare. It's not exact, obviously. But that's the importance and power of literature, of theater, of movies and television. Diversity of experience, it's a good thing. 
...and, oddly enough... something just clicked in my head for the Realms...
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 23 Aug 2011 02:58:35 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 04:24:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
An intriguing proposal. Especially given the "selected sections" of the Dragons of Autumn Twilight animated feature, which actually did manage to faithfully translate a TSR/Wizards fantasy world into the cartoon medium.
Got a link for this, Sage? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 08:35:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
An intriguing proposal. Especially given the "selected sections" of the Dragons of Autumn Twilight animated feature, which actually did manage to faithfully translate a TSR/Wizards fantasy world into the cartoon medium.
Got a link for this, Sage?
There was a collection on YouTube some time ago. I'll see if I can round them up again.
...
And in case you were referring to the actual film itself, you'll find details here.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 23 Aug 2011 08:37:47 |
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AdamBridger
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
118 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 11:30:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
I really liked the TV adaptations for both Legend of the Seeker and Game of Thrones. I also liked the books, and I wouldn't call it "butchering" so much as it was adapted for TV (and I'm assuming they're talking about Legend of the Seeker because it did get a lot of modifications... but necessary ones for television). Thing is, with any TV adaptation you'll have to expect some changes. I think it's a real shame that Legend of the Seeker didn't last longer, as it was just getting its sea legs. Bridget Regan (sp?) was perfectly cast, I thought. It was similar in some ways to Xena and Hercules, but totally different in others. Those two were so very, very campy, and they did the camp thing really well; only rarely did they take themselves really seriously. Legend of the Seeker by comparison had almost no camp, took itself very seriously, and also was heavy on romance.
Game of Thrones has so far been extremely close to the books, like almost word for word. Excellent series also, and very, very serious. To me, it has the flavor of a really good period drama with tons of danger from all quarters.
I found Legend Of The Seeker by accident on TV. At that point I was not aware there were any books and as such I just enjoyed it for what it was. Since then I have purchased the first 3 books in the series and plan on reading them soonish (they are in a very big pile of books to read).
However, I do understand that there will have been a great deal of creative license in order to turn the books into a TV series. Many things don't translate well between books and the visual medium and as such need adaptation. For example, I believe that R. A. Salvatore's fight scenes will always be better when described in text and imagined in your own head than they will ever be translated to the screen. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 11:43:27
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| I read the first book of the Seeker, supposedly it gets even worse. I can't stand Wheel of Time, imagine a book that imitates it in a way Shannara plagiarizes LotR. Stuff of nightmares, I'd rather read the Watercourse trilogy. |
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Twilight Love
