| Author |
 Topic  |
|
jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 02:54:06
|
|
With their unparalleled affinity with magic, I would have expected to hear about Phaerimm Chosen ....
|
|
|
Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 03:05:10
|
| No, they would not worship a human deity. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
 |
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 03:29:07
|
No, they did not. In Dangerous Games, when one phaerimm asked his fellow conspirators about the identity of the goddess (who was clearly Mystryl) giving vision to Sunbright, another said said it's not their deity. Here's the excerpt from Dangerous Games:
quote:
The Phaerimm had hatched their plot over many generations of humans, leading Karsus to the star-metal and a new application of heavy magic. In all that time, some of these ancient beings hadn't even stirred from the black cavern.
But who is this star-eyed woman with her warnings?
A deity, one of theirs. Not one of ours.
Can she warn them in time?
We'll see she doesn't.
I wonder, can this new super heavy magic penetrate even to our domain?
Best we not find out.
They will destroy themselves long before that.
Perhaps. But we'd best be ready to strike if need be.
We're ready.
|
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 04:27:18
|
Note, too, that the phaerimm are aberrations; and most aberrations have their own gods, or an equivalent to gods (like the Aboleths' Elder Evils). |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 06:41:11
|
| Who originally created them? Game wise I mean. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 12:13:44
|
| The first appearance of the phaerimm, that I know of, is as a monster within the Underdark and Undermountain products. Then in FR12 Anauroch and Netheril, all published by TSR at about the same time circa 1988. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 16:21:52
|
I believe that the first reference was in FR13 Anauroch (not FR12, that was Horde Campaign  ), an Ed sourcebook. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 17:38:48
|
| So maybe a question for Ed of the Greenwood is in order? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 18:35:18
|
| -Personally, I think it would make more sense to have them atheistic, but given the passage in Dangerous Games, they have their own pantheon- "ours", and "theirs". Given what we know about them, I could see Shar attempting to seduce them- they have a propensity for destroying things, and given what Troy Denning added to lore, that the Shadow Weave is extra effective on them, I could see the Phaerimm doing whatever possible to compensate for this weakness. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 00:48:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
No, they would not worship a human deity.
-In this case, the Phaerimm don't, but plenty of non-Humans worship Human deities, and vice-versa.
The key word in my comment is "they".
I would have thought they were to filled with enough hubris to think themselves above such things. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 03:10:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Personally, I think it would make more sense to have them atheistic, but given the passage in Dangerous Games, they have their own pantheon- "ours", and "theirs". Given what we know about them, I could see Shar attempting to seduce them- they have a propensity for destroying things, and given what Troy Denning added to lore, that the Shadow Weave is extra effective on them, I could see the Phaerimm doing whatever possible to compensate for this weakness.
Not all spellcasters who utilize the Shadow Weave worship Shar. Aeron being the good example. Likewise, the phaerimm don't have to worship the goddess of loss just to learn the key to cast shadow magic. They are a very intelligent race. They even managed to duplicate---with near perfection---the Chosen's silverfire. They just need time to study, and eventually, use shadow magic. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 04:09:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I believe that the first reference was in FR13 Anauroch (not FR12, that was Horde Campaign ), an Ed sourcebook.
Aye. Ed confirmed this during a previous discussion on whether the phaerimm were a creation in his original Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 04:12:14
|
Well of course they worshipped Mystra. They just didn't know her as Mystra/Mystryl when they were doing so. Every indication regarding the phaerimm is that they accessed Weave-based magic. In my view they couldn't do so without worshipping her - albeit in weird, alien and likely non-mainstream ways (i.e. one phaerimm could pursue something he called 'the spark' which when he meditated on it lead to strides in his magical insights, another had come across an old crown which when worn gave him visions from a phaerimm-seeming phantom calling itself the "gorlax" ['teacher' in the phaerimm 'language'] which provided insights into the Art, etc.)
The gods of Faerun have a long-standing tradition of masquerading in various forms and guises to garner greater numbers of worshippers. IMHO this situation seems to dovetail neatly into Mystra's aims and ambitions for magic and it's use throughout the ages. Think of how the phaerimm lifedrain magic saw frantic attempts by Netherese mages to craft powerful new magic to combat this threat. Sounds like something Mystra would have been very pleased by that.
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 04:47:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Not all spellcasters who utilize the Shadow Weave worship Shar. Aeron being the good example. Likewise, the phaerimm don't have to worship the goddess of loss just to learn the key to cast shadow magic. They are a very intelligent race. They even managed to duplicate---with near perfection---the Chosen's silverfire. They just need time to study, and eventually, use shadow magic.
-Not to use the Shadow Weave. To master it's secrets, allow themselves to overcome their own inherent weaknesses against it, and so on. There are only so many secrets that even the best and brightest can seek to "steal" from the keeper of secrets herself, without her blessings.
-Almost secondarily to that are the overlapping goals and/or byproducts of their behavior between the Phaerimm and/or their actions, and Shar. Shar is in favor of destruction, in that destruction hastens the end of things. The Phaerimm often cause destruction.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
In my view they couldn't do so without worshipping her - albeit in weird, alien and likely non-mainstream ways (i.e. one phaerimm could pursue something he called 'the spark' which when he meditated on it lead to strides in his magical insights, another had come across an old crown which when worn gave him visions from a phaerimm-seeming phantom calling itself the "gorlax" ['teacher' in the phaerimm 'language'] which provided insights into the Art, etc.)
-I disagree with this much, at least that they'd be actively worshiping her. If you have specific situations created where, as you say, she takes the guise of a phantom Phaerimm who tutors the Phaerimm that wears the crown, and that Phaerimm pays veneration to 'Teacher', I have no problems with that. Generally speaking, though, just because they're utilizing magic, and are highly magical creatures by nature, I don't think that they'd necessarily have to be actively worshiping Mystra, or a Phaerimm guise that she wears, if applicable. Planescape's Athar, for example, they utilized magic, and I am sure plenty were exposed to higher insights into the fundamentals of magic. They still denied the existence of the deities as actual deities, and certainly didn't actively worship them. Not that the Phaerimm are necessarily atheistic, which is again doubtful given the quotations above where they talk about "our" and "their" deities, but I don't see being magically inclined by nature, and (like anyone/anything else) all-too-happy to increase their own magical ability through whatever channels as active worship. Indirect worship, perhaps, by proxy of them being natural sorcerers, but then, it could be said that any magician- even the most Mystra-despising, fervent Bane monotheist- would be worshiping Mystra because they utilize magic. If I'm understanding you right, here, I don't know if I'd be willing to call something so possibly indirect, worship. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 13 Jun 2011 05:02:48 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 05:20:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Not all spellcasters who utilize the Shadow Weave worship Shar. Aeron being the good example. Likewise, the phaerimm don't have to worship the goddess of loss just to learn the key to cast shadow magic. They are a very intelligent race. They even managed to duplicate---with near perfection---the Chosen's silverfire. They just need time to study, and eventually, use shadow magic.
-Not to use the Shadow Weave. To master it's secrets, allow themselves to overcome their own inherent weaknesses against it, and so on. There are only so many secrets that even the best and brightest can seek to "steal" from the keeper of secrets herself, without her blessings.
They mastered the Art, and didn't need Mystryl/Mystra to do that. Why would they need Shar now when, just like before, they could endeavor to try to unravel the secrets of the Shadow Weave by sheer intelligence, deep understanding of magic, and current magical prowess. Besides, being Sharrans isn't a guarantee that Shar would reveal to them all they want to know about the SW. Shar isn't only secretive to non-worshipers. Even her most devout clergy are sometimes left blind to most of her secrets. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 06:21:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
They mastered the Art, and didn't need Mystryl/Mystra to do that. Why would they need Shar now when, just like before, they could endeavor to try to unravel the secrets of the Shadow Weave by sheer intelligence, deep understanding of magic, and current magical prowess. Besides, being Sharrans isn't a guarantee that Shar would reveal to them all they want to know about the SW. Shar isn't only secretive to non-worshipers. Even her most devout clergy are sometimes left blind to most of her secrets.
-Because Shar is the mistress of secrets, and mastery over the Shadow Weave is one of the secrets that she reveals to those who give her worship, when she deigns to. Paying veneration to Shar is no guarantee that she'll reveal diddly squat to you, but not venerating her all but guarantees that you won't learn the it's deeper secrets. And, when all you really have to do is give lip-service, where's the harm? Given what we know about the Phaerimm, it's likely that both sides will such a relationship as them using the other. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 06:29:19
|
Lord Karsus, your Planescape example isn't particularly convincing or relevant. In my view you've missed the salient point which is, as I pointed out, that the phaerimm use the Weave. The Weave which Mystra governs. What a race does off Toril in terms of furthering magical might is neither here nor there when it comes to discussing Weave-using races of Faerun. I've given you a view backed by realmslore and my analysis on how things 'work' when it comes to the gods. The phaerimm form of worship may not mirror how humans or other humanoid races worship the Mother of Magic, but if they do venerate her in some other guise or do things that advance her aims with her indirect influence/support/manipulation then they are indeed worshipping her, albeit as I said, in a weird, alien fashion. But then you disagree.
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 06:32:22
|
If their mindset is the same as of Imaskarians, they could ignore deities altogether, but they seem to have their own deities.
Phaerimm are watching at the other races almost in the same manner as illithids: food and slaves. Mostly food. So will they worship a deity the lowly food venerates? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
|
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 07:08:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
They mastered the Art, and didn't need Mystryl/Mystra to do that. Why would they need Shar now when, just like before, they could endeavor to try to unravel the secrets of the Shadow Weave by sheer intelligence, deep understanding of magic, and current magical prowess. Besides, being Sharrans isn't a guarantee that Shar would reveal to them all they want to know about the SW. Shar isn't only secretive to non-worshipers. Even her most devout clergy are sometimes left blind to most of her secrets.
-Because Shar is the mistress of secrets, and mastery over the Shadow Weave is one of the secrets that she reveals to those who give her worship, when she deigns to. Paying veneration to Shar is no guarantee that she'll reveal diddly squat to you, but not venerating her all but guarantees that you won't learn the it's deeper secrets. And, when all you really have to do is give lip-service, where's the harm? Given what we know about the Phaerimm, it's likely that both sides will such a relationship as them using the other.
Again, I'll use my comparison with Mystra. [(Unlike George), I believe the phaerimm did not worship Mystra. I quoted the lines from Dangerous Games---and that is canon. So unless there's another official source that negates those lines, I'd stick to what I believe.] The phaerimm have been dabbling with Weave-based magic for millennia, unraveling secrets and creating countless new spells without paying reverence to Mystryl/Mystra. In other words, the phaerimm's indifference to Mystra does not guarantee that they won't master the Art. They already did. In the same manner, their indifference to Shar doesn't ensure that they would never master shadow magic. Give them time and trust in their cunning and superior intelligence. They don't survive millennia of struggle with other races for nothing.
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Phaerimm are watching at the other races almost in the same manner as illithids: food and slaves. Mostly food. So will they worship a deity the lowly food venerates?
I don't think that's how they think of all humans. Generally, maybe. But certainly not all. They viewed the archwizards equal to them---or perhaps, begrudgingly, more powerful than they were. That's the reason (after the deaths of some of their ilk upon trying to) they avoided direct confrontation with the Netherese. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 07:38:27
|
Hi again, all.
According to Ed:
Most Phaerimm worship Mystra, albeit very differently than most humans do, but they DO reverence her.
Dennis, the quotation you cite from DANGEROUS GAMES doesn't quite mean what you think it means, because the "ours" is not ALL Phaerimm, as a race (just as it would be unlikely for a real-world human when speaking of religious matters to assume they spoke for all of humanity). The "ours" is a community of Phaerimm rather than all Phaerimm.
This comment of mine applies more widely; like most Faerunian races, the Phaerimm worship more than one deity. They are NOT "monolithic" when it comes to deities or even pantheons.
I created the Phaerimm, well before D&D came along. They featured in one of my 1971 Realms short stories. There's a lot of as-yet-unpublished lore about the 'Neglected Races' (as some early TSR staffers called them, because they were left out of the TSR-published Realms for so long), the Phaerimm and the Sharn (also my creations). Hopefully more will be revealed in the fullness of time...
So saith Ed. Who really enjoyed Paizocon, but has to turn back to his keyboard now to turn out some rather fun Realmslore . . .
love,
THO
|
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 07:46:08
|
Should I be surprised if I see a Phaerimm Chosen soon? |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 07:49:45
|
Heh. Probably you SHOULD be surprised. But not TOO surprised. It's most likely that if Chosen of that race have existed, they existed in the Realms before the 1300s (though that's just my personal impression built up over the years, not anything confirmed by Ed).
Why not jaunt on over to his thread and formally ask him? Then I can shuttle your post off to Ed for a proper reply, once he's back home from Paizocon.
love,
THO |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 08:09:50
|
I just did, THO.
The only reason I find that bit of lore difficult to swallow at the moment is because we only see the phaerimm (thanks to Clayton and Troy, I guess) as either worshipers of their "own" gods (The Arcane Age Trilogy), or completely atheistic (Return of the Archwizards Trilogy). And of course, because it was not established that such abberations worshipped the humans' deities---until now. It would take awhile of getting used to... |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 11:45:13
|
Certain groups of them could be atheistic.
The more we learn about the Realms, the less we really know about the Realms... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 13 Jun 2011 11:46:03 |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 16:04:44
|
Honestly, from what Ed and George have been saying, not to mention what was revealed about the gods in 4E, "Mystra" just seems like the avatar or conceptual framework for Faerun's pantheon. The very same deity may appear to the phaerimm as an extremely different avatar, in their pantheon. And likely appeared to the ancient sarrukh as a totally different avatar in their own pantheon. After all, I see a lot of parallels between Elminster's actions and the Terraseer. Both are insanely nose-poking and make attempts to shape cultures toward magic use, both create amazing magical items and spells for transmission through a society, and both are amazingly powerful beyond the "normal" strictures of learned magic. The Terraseer could've been a Chosen of his deity of magic, which in some ways was Mystryl (the source deity) but not Mystryl (the Faerun avatar).
The more I think about this, and how a particular avatar gains power by "local" or racial worship, the more I'm starting to wonder if the "source deities" don't really change all that much (if ever) and it just -seems- like they do when a particular avatar bites it and then later rises in a new mortal avatar. Sometimes the "source deity" has a ton of influence when one or more of its avatars are in ascendancy with a given culture, sometimes they lose power when those same avatars die. But the "source deity" continues on, defined in some ways for brief periods (sometimes millenia) by their various avatars, but always have an unchanging core, their primary reason for existence.
In that way, some of the myths about Mystra being the daughter of Selune and Shar could be true (in the sense of source deities) but not really true if you look at the actual avatars in a given culture. Very mythic, really.
To take it even further, perhaps the core deities really are just concepts/raw influence, and they cannot be worshipped without a framework (i.e. avatar). Heck, Ao might be the core deity of "balance" or "structure" and he has his own avatars within multiple pantheons just like "magic" could have avatars in separate pantheons. And the individual avatars like Mystra or Cyric have no idea, no clue that they draw from a primary source, so they come to believe in their own "stories" as defined by each individual culture.
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 13 Jun 2011 16:49:12 |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 17:54:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Lord Karsus, your Planescape example isn't particularly convincing or relevant. In my view you've missed the salient point which is, as I pointed out, that the phaerimm use the Weave. The Weave which Mystra governs. What a race does off Toril in terms of furthering magical might is neither here nor there when it comes to discussing Weave-using races of Faerun. I've given you a view backed by realmslore and my analysis on how things 'work' when it comes to the gods. The phaerimm form of worship may not mirror how humans or other humanoid races worship the Mother of Magic, but if they do venerate her in some other guise or do things that advance her aims with her indirect influence/support/manipulation then they are indeed worshipping her, albeit as I said, in a weird, alien fashion. But then you disagree.
-- George Krashos
-I'm not disagreeing that the Phaerimm can have a Phaerimm representation of Mystra, that they worship as [Phaerimm Name] and not Mystra. I disagree with the notion that being highly magical creatures by nature, using magic, promoting the importance/use of magic in their society, or possibly even being subtly influenced by Mystra herself, constitutes even indirect worship. As I said, were that the case then, magicians who make it plain that they do not worship Mystra, such as a member of the Athar, or a Cyricist, would be indirectly worshiping and empowering Mystra through their use and perpetuation of magic. Though those people might have goals that are similar as Mystra's goals, or might do things that advance Mystra's causes, I don't think that's enough to call it even indirect worship- even if Mystra gains an extra sliver of divine power because they're using magic/spreading magic/etc. That seems much too broad, and could be stretched to basically indirect worship to almost any deity, in almost any situation.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Again, I'll use my comparison with Mystra. [(Unlike George), I believe the phaerimm did not worship Mystra. I quoted the lines from Dangerous Games---and that is canon. So unless there's another official source that negates those lines, I'd stick to what I believe.] The phaerimm have been dabbling with Weave-based magic for millennia, unraveling secrets and creating countless new spells without paying reverence to Mystryl/Mystra. In other words, the phaerimm's indifference to Mystra does not guarantee that they won't master the Art. They already did. In the same manner, their indifference to Shar doesn't ensure that they would never master shadow magic. Give them time and trust in their cunning and superior intelligence. They don't survive millennia of struggle with other races for nothing.
-Unlike the Weave, which Mystra offers freely for magicians to "explore" and "master", Shar does not offer the deeper secrets of the Shadow Weave to "explore" and "master". One could spend an hour, a day, a week, a month, a year, a decade, a century, a millennium, whatever, and not be any closer to "stealing" one of Shar's secrets, if she doesn't want the secret to be known. An alliance with Shar, in which the Phaerimm give her worship and lip-service gives the Phaerimm what might be otherwise unattainable. Being the cunning creatures of superior intellect, as you say, they'd realize this, and realize that in doing so, they lose little, and possibly gain a great deal, since they'd be getting access to deep magical insight they might not otherwise get. In Shar's case, she'd also be losing little, and possibly gaining a great deal, since she'd be obtaining the service of mortal creatures that have goals, or the biproducts of their actions that often overlap with hers. It's a non-zero-sum game, and everyone benefits as long as the temporary alliance lasts. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 13 Jun 2011 18:02:55 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 : 02:37:36
|
I would have liked to elucidate more on my speculation that the phaerimm will never worship Shar, but obviously, Ed's comment on the phaerimm's polytheism would render it immaterial. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 : 05:51:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I would have liked to elucidate more on my speculation that the phaerimm will never worship Shar, but obviously, Ed's comment on the phaerimm's polytheism would render it immaterial.
-Then elucidate. Notice, Ed said "most". As was mentioned in the other thread, about the Return of the Archwizards trilogy, the Phaerimm are hardly a unified entity, when it comes to such beliefs. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 : 06:17:42
|
They are not a unified race. However, it isn't impossible that they have a common belief; that they have their "own" foreign gods. I dislike the comparison of their polytheism to humans' because in the first place, they hardly act nor think like humans. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 : 06:55:23
|
| The reply of Ed in my opinion strengthened one of ideas: just because great deities favor humans as their worshipers, they still cannot be called human gods for that. If there were no humans, they would answer on other races' pleas if there was some other race without creator god/pantheon. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Did the Phaerimm ever worship Mystra?
