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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 01:21:42
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anyone have an estimate which goblinoid deity wouldbe the most likely to have paladins??
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 01:48:41
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As in the actual, LG paladins? None. In 2e, because only humans can be paladins. In all editions, because the goblinoid deities are all evil bastards, who would have nothing to do with do-gooders like paladins (except perhaps eating them).
If you want to go with the 3e UA book, though, they could have some of the "alternate" paladins, the LE and CE versions. Simply give the LE deities Paladins of Tyranny, and the CE deities Paladins of Slaughter. Done. If you like the alternate paladin idea, that is, which I don't think I do. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2011 : 18:36:42
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thx hoondatha, similar to what I was thinking.
I would, also for the Lawful deities of them, rsahter go for the cleric / fighter mix, and then either warpriest or divine champion. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4437 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 14:12:17
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Or just have the Hobgoblin worship a Good deity like Lathander, Tyr, Torm, Helm, etc...
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Saxmilian
Learned Scribe
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 15:40:43
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| Tweak the history that perhaps he was raised by humans and thus not evil as normal Hobgoblins. He might still have some beastal instincts but otherwise can worship anyone he wishes |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 19:24:12
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| To be honest, a 3e cleric is so good at fighting you don't even need to dip fighter. Just give them a militant backstory, and then abuse divine metamagic and go to town. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2011 : 21:27:06
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thx for all info guys, I was rather asking myself which of the Hobgoblin deities would be best suited to have a clerical order or paladins, just by portfolio etc.
thats why I cam eto Maglubiyet....
But I also agree, Paladin does not mean what it was in 2e or before. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 : 05:13:20
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| Well, D&D rules are not the same as ye olde 2E AD&D rules (which I personally very much prefer, but that's irrelevant). I think that a game which encourages dwarven mages, drow rangers, and all sorts of "monsters" (dragonborn, warforged, tieflings, genasi, etc) as PC classes can easily accomodate the odd "evil" humanoid paladin. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 14 Jun 2011 05:17:08 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 : 05:56:18
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| -I never understood why Blackguard was a (ex-)Paladin PrC, instead of just being an evil Paladin, by the rules. That way, you don't have all the evil people missing out on the class. Paladin, the LG version, and Blackguard, the LE version. Those 'Chaos' variants, though, in Unearthed Arcana, those are a no go, in my opinion, though. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4437 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 : 13:27:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I never understood why Blackguard was a (ex-)Paladin PrC, instead of just being an evil Paladin, by the rules. That way, you don't have all the evil people missing out on the class. Paladin, the LG version, and Blackguard, the LE version. Those 'Chaos' variants, though, in Unearthed Arcana, those are a no go, in my opinion, though.
Well Blackguards can be any melee-oriented class, not just for Ex-Paladins. Ex-paladins, however, do keep certain elements of their base class and often make better blackguards in terms of mechanics.
I also like the UA variants because In my mind, Paladins shouldn't be expressed in only LG ways. There should be powerful divine champions that favor Law and Order, Evil and Oppression, and Cruelity and Vengeance. So a Paladin of Chaos, Paladin of Tyranny, Paladin of Slaughter, Paladin of Freedom, etc. are all OK in my book as long as they believe in a God with the same reasons. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36800 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 : 18:29:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I never understood why Blackguard was a (ex-)Paladin PrC, instead of just being an evil Paladin, by the rules. That way, you don't have all the evil people missing out on the class. Paladin, the LG version, and Blackguard, the LE version. Those 'Chaos' variants, though, in Unearthed Arcana, those are a no go, in my opinion, though.
Well Blackguards can be any melee-oriented class, not just for Ex-Paladins. Ex-paladins, however, do keep certain elements of their base class and often make better blackguards in terms of mechanics.
I also like the UA variants because In my mind, Paladins shouldn't be expressed in only LG ways. There should be powerful divine champions that favor Law and Order, Evil and Oppression, and Cruelity and Vengeance. So a Paladin of Chaos, Paladin of Tyranny, Paladin of Slaughter, Paladin of Freedom, etc. are all OK in my book as long as they believe in a God with the same reasons.
I agree on the differing alignment paladins, but I'd likely call them something else. Crusaders, Wardens, Iron Hands, Bloodstained, etc. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2011 : 18:37:20
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| -I am in favor of calling the blanket class 'Crusader', like the 4e class, or 'Divine Champion', or something like that, but limiting it to LG (Paladin) and LE (Blackguard). The Paladin/Blackguard is a basic archetypal character in fantasy. If you're CN, you can be a Cleric who is heavy into the martial elements of the class/rules. Is that unfair to people who want to be a CG Paladin, or a CE Blackguard? Maybe, but the same can be said of not letting people who are non-lawful play Monks (I know there is that alternate class/PrC, the "Chaos Monk", but let's disregard that here, for the sake of the argument), or people who are LG/LE play Druids, and the various other class/alignment restrictions that apply. Generic things like Fighter, if there were alignment restrictions, that, I wouldn't like. Paladins and Monks, and other classes out there, are specifically defined by their alignments. So, I don't have sympathy if a person gets pissed that they can't be chaotic and be a Monk. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31744 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 : 01:46:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I never understood why Blackguard was a (ex-)Paladin PrC, instead of just being an evil Paladin, by the rules. That way, you don't have all the evil people missing out on the class. Paladin, the LG version, and Blackguard, the LE version. Those 'Chaos' variants, though, in Unearthed Arcana, those are a no go, in my opinion, though.
Well Blackguards can be any melee-oriented class, not just for Ex-Paladins. Ex-paladins, however, do keep certain elements of their base class and often make better blackguards in terms of mechanics.
I also like the UA variants because In my mind, Paladins shouldn't be expressed in only LG ways. There should be powerful divine champions that favor Law and Order, Evil and Oppression, and Cruelity and Vengeance. So a Paladin of Chaos, Paladin of Tyranny, Paladin of Slaughter, Paladin of Freedom, etc. are all OK in my book as long as they believe in a God with the same reasons.
I agree on the differing alignment paladins, but I'd likely call them something else. Crusaders, Wardens, Iron Hands, Bloodstained, etc.
And for a little creative flair, you could also borrow titles from other material -- like Oathbound or Swordsworn, for example. The appeal of these titles, is that they can usually be be configured to represent most paladin alignment-types, just so long as you craft an adequate back-story for them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2011 : 04:32:51
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In my 2E Game, I added the 'Holy Warrior' class' basically 'specialty Paladins' in the same vein as specialty priests. In 3.xE, I have not done so, largely b/c the Divine Champion PrC allows you to simulate a lot of that for NPCs and I haven't had a PC want to play such a character. Nonetheless, it could certainly be done. At one point I toyed with the idea of 'Martial Domains'... i.e. the Paladin would have the Good and Law domains, and they would account for all Paladin class abilities. Similarly, you could have a character with the Chaos and Evil Martial Domains which would grant essentially the inverse of Paladin abilities. Then any character wanting to be a holy warrior of a given Power would just choose two domains offered by the Power and have a 20 level class set up.
Again, I never had the time to flesh this out, but I can't imagine it woould be all that hard to do. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Hobgoblin Paladin??
