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Acrilos
Acolyte
6 Posts |
 Posted - 05 May 2011 : 11:59:41
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The Spellplague was caused when Mystra died at the hand of Cyric and dweomerheart burst apart.
I recently read the novels which relate most of what transpired in the planes just before and during the Spellplague and learned interesting things. When Helm was killed by Tyr, Tyr welcomed Helm's worshipers in his clergy. When Tyr decided to abdicate, he transfered his divinity to Torm who became the new god of Justice and Torm welcomed the worpshipers of Tyr.
Did something similar happen when Mystra died? I mean to whom did her clergy turn to when the goddess died. From a 4th edition perspective, clerics still have their powers when their god dies because they already have been invested by their clergy, but surely, another god moved to claim those goddessless worshippers right?
Since there is no other god of magic, except maybe Corelon who is an elven deity, to who did the clergy of Mystra turn to?
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Acrilos |
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Thente Thunderspells
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2011 : 16:54:10
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They likely turned to Despair like many of us here in the wake of Mystra's death...
seriously though, there isn't anything official that I can find in reference to this. I'd say it would be up to individual DM's how that played out in given campaigns (should you choose to even play in the Realms with a dead Mystra)
IF I were going to play in a game where all the gods of magic were dead/gone save Corellon, I would say honestly it depended on the cleric's alignment and own choice. I could see a number of the hold over LN clerics turning to Kelemvor, some clergy turning to Oghma and Selune. I could even see some coming to worship Corellon as his entry in the FRCG says: quote:
pg.151 Corellon is worshiped by eladrin, elves, and half-elves, as well as those who are long-lived and those who work magic.
I have a hard time picturing any of them turning to the evil gods as most of the evil gods were either involved in the plot to kill her or were her long time enemies. Though I guess if a cleric were bitter enough over the death of his goddess... who knows where they would turn, Asmodeus maybe...though he did eat Azuth  |
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- Shakespeare |
Edited by - Thente Thunderspells on 05 May 2011 16:54:36 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2011 : 18:01:59
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-Personally, I would assume that Mystra had some sort of "contingency" in plan, in terms of her worshipers and whatnot, since she is an important deity, and has both quite a few enemies and quite a few previous brushes with death. Corellon Larethian's transformation from being a 1e-2e-3e pantheon head of the Elves, worshiped mainly by Elves, to a 4e wholesale deity of magic, simply with an emphasis on Elves, might be explained by such a "contingency". In case of emergency, Corellon was instructed to do X, Y, and Z.
-Thing is, though, there are better deities (I think) to select to help out, in terms of emergency. Azuth, he was out of the picture, and Mystra never liked Velsharoon too much, either- who also was eliminated out of the picture- but I'd make more sense for a semi-magical and closely allied deity, like Selūne, to help out with magic moreso than Corellon Larethian. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 00:31:51
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Selune. An ally who will not only embrace Mystra's clergy but will mostly probably also avenge her death. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 01:02:16
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| According to the article Domains in Eberron and Forgotten Realms from Dragon #378, Corellon, Selūne, and Sseth give access to the Arcana domain. I assume most of Mystra's followers turned to Corellon or Selūne. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 04:23:25
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I'd fairly say that most of her non-elven/eladrin followers would follow Selūne while the others would follow Corellon and a few might follow Sseth.
But this is clergy we're talking about now, which often hold the "divine" element so other Deities of the Arts (possibly non-magical) might be included as well. THis might be a breakdown of the specific person's mindset, such as a priest who's dedicated to magic and it's arts of Defense might now turn to Torm or Bahamut who hold sway over Justice and Protection as an example. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 04:57:16
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| You could also have Lurue, if she's still around?, pick up Mystra's clergy. Lurue was the original deity of magic after all, at least in Ed's FR. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31743 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 05:07:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
You could also have Lurue, if she's still around?, pick up Mystra's clergy. Lurue was the original deity of magic after all, at least in Ed's FR. :)
Indeed. So Saith Ed:-
"Originally, Lurue WAS magicbefore Julia Martin added the name Weave to my GenCon explanations of the great web of magic thats everywhere in Toril, binds Toril together, and IS Toril, Lurue was the embodiment of the Weave. As such, she could teleport without error or limit, through all barriers and spells, was immune to all known magical [and psionic] effects, could raise dead, heal, regenerate and restore with the touch of her hornand also spew silver fire from itand so on. Her very proximity dispels illusions and curses, purifies and neutralizes poisons and taints, and purges diseases. And on and on. [To the usual chorus of Look, yet another all-powerful Greenwood munchkin! I reply: Yes. Of course. This is THE all-powerful goddess, and shes also whimsical. We cant understand why she does what she does, so she cant be controlled, or act like any sort of tyrannical munchkin, any more than a mountain range or an ocean can be.] She tended to be as curious as a newborn babe, utterly fearless, and kind to injured creatures. And yes, I tucked in the patron of virgins, but can also make barren wombs bear folklore, too. Only virgins could ride her, and those who did got that silver hair the Chosen who are Mystras daughters all share, and wild talent innate magical abilities, and were marked for special tasks and achievements all their lives.
The TSR designers quite rightly (given the humanocentric core of that version of AD&D, with its level and power limits on non-humans) wanted human gods to be front and center and of the greatest power and importance, so Mystra (most important to intelligent creatures trying to USE magic) became also the Guardian or Mother of the Weave, and Lurue sort of . . . danced sideways. To become the awe-inspiring mystery she is now." |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 08:40:57
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Lurue is an Archfey. I think it was in a BRJ DDI article. Sarifal IIRC.
Maybe they still followed Mystra after her death. In 3E it would be Servant of the Fallen feat.
In 4E you still retain your powers after your god dies. I could see an Order of Avengers rising in Mystra's Church that hunt down Cyricists.
Didn't Mistshore have a priest of Mystra in it as a minor character? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 10:50:30
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Since I've updated the Dweomerkeeper Prestige Class to a 4E paragon path, Cults of Mystra are still floating around and her religion isn't dead. And of course the question remains, Who's granting them the divine power?  |
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Acrilos
Acolyte
6 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 18:26:45
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Thanks for all these replies. There are good ideas. I've already planned to move the clergy to Selūne and Corelon.
But in the end, I intend to bring back Mystra in my campaign.
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Acrilos |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 18:29:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Since I've updated the Dweomerkeeper Prestige Class to a 4E paragon path, Cults of Mystra are still floating around and her religion isn't dead. And of course the question remains, Who's granting them the divine power?
-I am. Wouldn't be the first time, either.
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Lurue is an Archfey. I think it was in a BRJ DDI article. Sarifal IIRC.
-Now, correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know the 4e rules, but does anything particularly prevent her from granting spells to someone? Being an Archfey, she'd be the Fey "power source" (if there is one. I think there is, but...). Does having a "power source" that is not plain old "Arcane" preclude you from being able to be a 4e Wizard? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 06 May 2011 18:31:46 |
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Acrilos
Acolyte
6 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2011 : 19:20:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Lurue is an Archfey. I think it was in a BRJ DDI article. Sarifal IIRC.
-Now, correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know the 4e rules, but does anything particularly prevent her from granting spells to someone? Being an Archfey, she'd be the Fey "power source" (if there is one. I think there is, but...). Does having a "power source" that is not plain old "Arcane" preclude you from being able to be a 4e Wizard?
As far as I know the power source of the Feywild, or Faerie, is Arcane.
But Archfeys are not deities in 4th edition (and Lurue is not in the 4th edition deities list). They can be patrons for fey-pact warlocks though, who use the arcane power source. |
Acrilos |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2011 : 00:18:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Acrilos
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Lurue is an Archfey. I think it was in a BRJ DDI article. Sarifal IIRC.
-Now, correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know the 4e rules, but does anything particularly prevent her from granting spells to someone? Being an Archfey, she'd be the Fey "power source" (if there is one. I think there is, but...). Does having a "power source" that is not plain old "Arcane" preclude you from being able to be a 4e Wizard?
As far as I know the power source of the Feywild, or Faerie, is Arcane.
But Archfeys are not deities in 4th edition (and Lurue is not in the 4th edition deities list). They can be patrons for fey-pact warlocks though, who use the arcane power source.
I'm not really sure Feywild/Faerie has a supreme Power Source, as there are elements in the Feywild that could probably grant divine power, have ties to the Primal aspects of nature, and the mysteries of the Arcane. Those would be more prominent sources, but Shadow powers, Psionic powers, and so forth probably work there as well.
I've no problem with Archfeys providing divine assisstance via spells and I'm sure other Fey-minded creatures would agree. If the Primordials can have followers who cast Divine Magic, I see little difference with Archfeys doing the same. As for the rules aspect, I've not come across anything that says that Archfeys cannot grant divine magic. The Fey Power Source was basically scrapped along with the Ki power source too. Not really sure why but probably because they didn't want TOO many of them flying around (theres 6 already!).
As for Lurue, nothing Canon states that she's left Faerūn or that anything has happened to her in the past Century. This is probably left ambigious on purpose for people who know of her to incorporate her into the settings yet not take the whole Nature/Wilderness spheres from Meilikki and Silvanus. As others have stated, non-inclusion of any previous deity, city, etc... from the source books does not mean removal or destruction there of. So unless something Canon happened (which I'm not aware of) then Lurue is still there taking care of wellsprings, waterfalls, and clear ponds. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2011 : 10:58:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-So, Lurue could very well be the source of magic, like Mystra was, without having their rules all garbled up.
Absolutely! Except that she wouldn't control HOW magic works, since the Weave is no more. I haven't read Elminster Must Die, but I know there are some drastic things that occur in that novel that might change this. |
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Thente Thunderspells
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2011 : 00:47:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Acrilos
Thanks for all these replies. There are good ideas. I've already planned to move the clergy to Selūne and Corelon.
But in the end, I intend to bring back Mystra in my campaign.
So it would seem from the last Elminster novel, is WotC ;) |
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- Shakespeare |
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Mystra's death and the consequence on her clergy
