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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
616 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 17:38:57
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Spoilers in here:
As we all know, the Arcane Brotherhood was wiped out before the beginning of the current era for 4th Edition, and the City of Sails is practically nothing but a rampant hole full of monsters and thugs. Has anyone bothered running a campaign of taking over the city or cleaning it up somehow?
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Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 09:23:53
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| I've been working out the logistics of a campaign where Many-Arrows sets its sights on establishing Luskan as a permanent colony. Haven't been putting too much effort into it lately; a lot of unanswered political questions involved, and I may or may not be onto something offical here if my answers in the ask Ed thread("it's nda") are anything to go by. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 14:20:27
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| I, personally, don't understand how Luskan continues to exist in 4E. It's half-destroyed and crawling with bad guys -- so how are they surviving? Someone has to be bringing in food, but who would willing to try carrying goods into a city where your goods were more likely to be stolen than paid for? And speaking of payment, what payment would even be offered? There's no industry, and without trade, only a limited amount of material that could be scrounged in the ruins for exchange... |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 16:57:31
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I hope my forthcoming novel Shadowbane (which takes place in the 4e Luskan) answers at least some of these questions. 
Resting atop the ruins of Illusk and being a well-known den of pirates and thieves, Luskan is a repository of a certain amount of wealth that outside powers still take interest in. Goods still work their way into the city, though in limited quantities. People do not survive there all that long, either--the turn-over rate is high.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 18:14:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, personally, don't understand how Luskan continues to exist in 4E. It's half-destroyed and crawling with bad guys -- so how are they surviving? Someone has to be bringing in food, but who would willing to try carrying goods into a city where your goods were more likely to be stolen than paid for? And speaking of payment, what payment would even be offered? There's no industry, and without trade, only a limited amount of material that could be scrounged in the ruins for exchange...
-Hey, Zhentil Keep existed, and it is/wasn't all that much better. Same thing with Skullport. Both are/were more structured than the descriptions that we've been given of the new Luskan, but... |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 18:50:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, personally, don't understand how Luskan continues to exist in 4E. It's half-destroyed and crawling with bad guys -- so how are they surviving? Someone has to be bringing in food, but who would willing to try carrying goods into a city where your goods were more likely to be stolen than paid for? And speaking of payment, what payment would even be offered? There's no industry, and without trade, only a limited amount of material that could be scrounged in the ruins for exchange...
-Hey, Zhentil Keep existed, and it is/wasn't all that much better. Same thing with Skullport. Both are/were more structured than the descriptions that we've been given of the new Luskan, but...
Zhentil Keep had a source of income outside of the city, and there was enough intact for there to be both order and a place to rebuild from. From what I've read of 4E Luskan, it has neither of those things going for it. |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
616 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 03:16:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I hope my forthcoming novel Shadowbane (which takes place in the 4e Luskan) answers at least some of these questions.
Resting atop the ruins of Illusk and being a well-known den of pirates and thieves, Luskan is a repository of a certain amount of wealth that outside powers still take interest in. Goods still work their way into the city, though in limited quantities. People do not survive there all that long, either--the turn-over rate is high.
Cheers
Ha! I must be freakin' psychic or something! 
On a more somber note, Mr. de Bie, I've got LOTS of reading to catch up on, if possible, your novels included.  |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
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Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 03:17:44
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Fishing. Limited farming, likely. Banditry. Depending on what demons the local cultists are worshipping they may be able to import some food from their master's realm(Graz'zt is big on trade) or from other branches. Might still be a handful of drow traders facilitating a little import, as well.
On the whole, though, the impression I got is that the city is dying a slow death and is kept alive mainly by people fleeing there to escape other forces. Apparently Waterdeep and Neverwinter have serious crime problems if their fugitives are numrous enough to keep Luskan(barely) populated. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 03:19:23
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| And I have a sinking feeling that a novel called Shadowbane won't involve an agressive orcish colonization of Luskan. Oh well. Home brew, it is. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
616 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 15:22:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
And I have a sinking feeling that a novel called Shadowbane won't involve an agressive orcish colonization of Luskan. Oh well. Home brew, it is.
Eh, well, much as I wish some of the stuff I've made to be canon, not much luck in that department either.  |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 15:31:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
And I have a sinking feeling that a novel called Shadowbane won't involve an agressive orcish colonization of Luskan. Oh well. Home brew, it is.
Eh, well, much as I wish some of the stuff I've made to be canon, not much luck in that department either.
Well, the state of Luskan in the novel (quarantined by plague) makes it a little less than appealing to the Kingdom of Many-Arrows, but after certain events in the novel, it's very possible that something like this might come to pass.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 16:14:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Someone has to be bringing in food, but who would willing to try carrying goods into a city where your goods were more likely to be stolen than paid for?
Bregan D'aerthe for example, I doubt Jarlaxle did all this in Pirate King to just trade there for a few years and I really doubt a lot of people would dare to steal their goods |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 17:01:47
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Someone has to be bringing in food, but who would willing to try carrying goods into a city where your goods were more likely to be stolen than paid for?
Bregan D'aerthe for example, I doubt Jarlaxle did all this in Pirate King to just trade there for a few years and I really doubt a lot of people would dare to steal their goods
And what are they getting in payment? Importing goods is one thing, but you've got to have a reason to import them -- and that reason is usually payment. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 17:15:10
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You might also 'consult' the novel Gauntlgrym on the topic of Luskan:
In 1451 DR Borlann the Crow (grandchild of Kensidan the Crow) and his house ruled from the newly erected Crow's Nest, a slim tower on Closeguard Island. Borlann was know by the nick-name of 'Borboy' in the city and was murdered by the elf assasin Dahlia in 1451 DR(stole the Cloak of the Crow as well). His heir/next relativ will probably take his place.
Besides 'the Crow' there are 4 other High Captains.
The Hostower of the Arcane was destroyed and is not rebuilt. It's root-like cellars are still there.
Valindra Shadowmantle the lich acts as some sort of deranged queen of Luskans physical underworld. She still keeps Arklem Greeth captured in his phylactery.
The 'Bite o' the Shark' is Athrogate's favorite pub. The dwarfs connection to the dark elves is one of Luskans worst kept secrets.
The drow are thought to be gone by the high captains, but actually control them from the shadows. They see Luskan as something they sucked dry of value, but keep an interest in it as a source for information. Kimmuriel Oblodra seems to have a hand incontrolling Luskan while Jarlaxle isn't there.
In 1462 DR the drow are rarely in Luskan, still the High Captains seem to be a power in the city.
Another fun fact from Gauntlgrym: The Harpels have replenished their numbers after being reduced by the Spellplague and are rebuilding their mansion and Longsaddle. ;) |
Edited by - Lirdolin on 02 May 2011 17:45:27 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 17:23:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And what are they getting in payment? Importing goods is one thing, but you've got to have a reason to import them -- and that reason is usually payment.
Like I said, some of this is explained in the novel, but let's speculate:
The Dustclaw gang in Luskan (real gang in the novel) is a thug/smash-and-grab sort of outfit, specializing in beating people up. A merchant in Waterdeep contracts their services to knock over a certain rival caravan passing near Luskan. The Dustclaws raid the caravan, take some goods, get paid by their merchant patron. Hence, cash flow. The job could be stealing, kidnapping, hiding captives, piracy, you name it.
This is not to suggest that the folk of Luskan are, by and large, wealthy--definitely not the case--but it is very plausible that wealth flows into the city and thus around. Merchants in Luskan can still make a killing feeding the city, as can foreign powers--at exorbitant prices.
Also, pirates routinely dock at Luskan and drop some of their booty on services in the city (lowcoin lads and lasses, place to moor up, etc) because it's so much cheaper than other ports on the Sword Coast (and relatively safer, as other places don't take kindly to pirates).
Barter (in goods and/or services) is also big in Luskan, about equal in usage to hard coin. Sometimes these exchanges run to the macabre: you can, for instance, pay for half a tankard of beer with a goblin ear--a full tankard, if it's a hobgoblin.
And lest I get caught up in drenching everyone in Realmslore, I'll leave it there and say "read Shadowbane!" like the shameless self-promoter I am. (But hey, you got some lore out of it!)
Re: Lirdolin's post:
Note that what Gauntlgrym says about Luskan's government/power structure and what Shadowbane says about it won't necessarily be the same, as there are some years separating the two. I believe RAS's novel visits the city some twenty or so years before mine, so one can imagine quite a bit changes in the interim.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 02 May 2011 17:26:25 |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 17:42:35
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| Erik is correct. Gauntlgrym shows Luskan in 1451 and 1462 DR and even the characters note that the city has diminished in just a decade. Made changes to my earlier post. |
Edited by - Lirdolin on 02 May 2011 17:44:17 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 18:05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin
Erik is correct. Gauntlgrym shows Luskan in 1451 and 1462 DR and even the characters note that the city has diminished in just a decade. Made changes to my earlier post.
Let me confirm that it continues that trend to where its described in the FRCG (which I did my best to fit the novel).
We scribes should absolutely feel free to speculate about what brought about the changes, however. What groups evolved out of what, who took the reigns of power from whom, etc.
I will say that the Crow does not hold power in Shadowbane, which is unsurprising since he and his house were last seen 30 years ago. There are, however, Five Captains--though what form they take might surprise you.
Also, you won't see a lot of drow presence of Hosttower of the Arcane in Shadowbane--as an author, I make a concerted effort not to step on other authors' toes and use their toys. I have my own toys, after all!
(Enough teasing! Gah!)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 22:04:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Also, you won't see a lot of drow presence of Hosttower of the Arcane in Shadowbane--as an author, I make a concerted effort not to step on other authors' toes and use their toys. I have my own toys, after all!
Oh, it wasn't seen much in Luskan in Gauntlgrym, either--mostly indirect rumor, inuendo, threat, and posturing... |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2011 : 15:35:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
And I have a sinking feeling that a novel called Shadowbane won't involve an agressive orcish colonization of Luskan. Oh well. Home brew, it is.
Eh, well, much as I wish some of the stuff I've made to be canon, not much luck in that department either.
Well, the state of Luskan in the novel (quarantined by plague) makes it a little less than appealing to the Kingdom of Many-Arrows, but after certain events in the novel, it's very possible that something like this might come to pass.
Cheers
Well, my line of thinking had been; Many-Arrows is a landlocked nation that, as far as I know, only has the Silver Marches as a trading partner, and that's limited. Luskan provides an already built(if largely ruined) city that is part of established(if dated) shipping routes, isn't of much interest to people of power, has a supply line to Many-Arrows(by river) and has the Hosttower, full of unplunded magic. Not to mention has no military force to speak of beyond street gangs.
It would take time and labor to rebuild the city and the bridges, and to clear the harbor of the wrecked ships that clog it, but having to fight to take and hold the city and work to rebuild it might be a more appealing use of energy by the orcs(who need to keep the troops occupied so they don't start itching for a fight with the Marches) than simply finding a suitable location for a coastal settlement of their own.
Plague certainly puts a damper on things, but it does pique my interest for the book. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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4th-Edition campaigns involving Luskan? (spoilers)
