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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 01:33:44
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Which races are immune?
Celestials...?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 02:03:24
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Awaken constructs.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 02:22:16
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Outsiders (aasimar, tieflings, genasi) might be immune, at least I can't recall any vampy outsider NPCs. Cambions and alu-fiends are almost certainly immune.
Rakshasas are immune. Lycanthropes are immune. Other shapeshifters are probably immune. I have fought a vampiric doppleganger before, though it might have been homebrewed by my DM.
Warforged and constructs lack normal biology (and blood, and "souls"), of course. Except perhaps Ravenloft-styled flesh golems.
I'm unsure about dragonborn, though vampiric dragons exist ...
Ravenloft lore (especially Van Richten's Guide to the Vampire) provides 2E templates for many different vampires; several human strains, plus one for each of the common demihuman races (the dwarven vamp is one of my favourites). There's even an illithid vamp. I've battled a vicious little kender vampire, though again it may have been homebrewed. There was a Ravenloft module with a vampire wizard who had a vampire familiar. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Apr 2011 02:25:34 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 02:25:18
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| Ah, now the true reason for your hatred of the Kender is revealed. You must have liked that character alot. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 02:28:21
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| He was a frustrating opponent. A cloud of mist (on Ravenloft, where almost everything is misty, of course) which could suck your blood or pickpocket your stuff. Though I loathed kender vermin long before meeting that vamp. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 03:02:09
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| My question is this: are you asking which are immune to BECOMING vampires...or which things are immune to the energy drain? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 04:12:51
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| Most outsiders are generally immune to vampirism. There is a demon known as a Blood Fiend that creates others of its kind by biting and transforming other demons in a manner quite similar to vampirism. I wonder what would happen if such a demon were to feed on a Celestial. The aforementioned beast is from City of the Spider Queen as are Abyssal Ghouls and ghasts (known as Maurezhi.) |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 01 Apr 2011 04:14:28 |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 04:32:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
My question is this: are you asking which are immune to BECOMING vampires...or which things are immune to the energy drain?
Becoming.... |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 04:36:06
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| only Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids can become Vampires. so... everyone else is Immune. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 05:12:20
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quote:
Originally posted by ChieftainTwilight
only Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids can become Vampires. so... everyone else is Immune.
That is true, under rules that I like to play by...but I think exceptions have become the norm now...
I would simply rule out any other-planar creatures at all; though even then the Vampire Template could be applied to many things...even Vampiric Plants perhaps.
For the most part though, I'd stick to Chieftains definition and hold to Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids...with VERY rare exceptions. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 05:14:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
That doesn't explain dragons becoming vamps.....
well, that's aways up to DM decisions. in my games, it's Humanoids or Monstrous Humanoids only, unless I want to do something super strange. and even then, I make up some freaky incredible reason for it, and make it obvious to the PCs that it realy shouldn't be possible. helps to get them curious as to just how the **** it happened. XD |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 05:48:54
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I don't think Vampiric dragons come about their affliction in the same manner as say a humanoid or monstrous humanoid does, ie. death via energy drain from a vampire. I've felt it must have came from sort of pact, ritual, or agreement that the dragon enters willingly to become a vampiric creature (thus not subject to the rule).
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 06:57:41
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Arik---vampire Kender are a creature in the Ravenloft module in Sithicus ("When Black Roses Bloom," I believe). They have their own template, like the other racial vampires in RL supplements. For simplicity, I've just stuck with one vampire template for everything, but with individual traits open to variation according to their personality and origin/story because it's just more interesting and flavorful, IMO, than cookie-cutter bloodsuckers jumping out from behind doors. "Oo, it's a vampire elf, that means it has (XYZ) traits and we can count on that and show how cool and on top of things we are in the face of the great unknown!" 90% surety is a little different from 100%, and infinitely more interesting and conducive to PC carefulness...Part of the fun of the VR Guides I've looked through (if one goes by the spirit of the IC text, not just the "standard" templates) 
Judging by the number of racial and species-specific vampire templates out there, it does seem that probably just about any living and at least partially-corporeal creature could possibly be vamped (and might even end up with a canon template for it); it's just a matter of whether one would apply the standard humanoid vampire template or something more adapted to the form/nature of the creature (or individual). Maybe a vampire of one type (such as humanoid) would be incapable of passing it on to something vastly different (dragon, etc.)? Because a human vampire of a handful of HD could seriously unbalance a game if he managed to turn a wyrm and have it as his slave. Though that might be fun....all the more so, the more it P.O.d the wyrm... |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 07:34:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Laerrigan
Arik---vampire Kender are a creature in the Ravenloft module in Sithicus ("When Black Roses Bloom," I believe). They have their own template, like the other racial vampires in RL supplements.
They received something of a 3e update, during the publication of White Wolf's RAVENLOFT campaign setting. However, with the separation of the Dread Domains from the core D&D cosmology [of the time], they could no longer be referenced as kender. Instead, they were referred to as bitterkinder -- vampiric halflings said to inhabit the dread Fumewood in Sithicus. |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 13:50:55
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Hmmm... well I'm particularly curious about whether a vampire could turn a humanoid celestial,for example a deva ..
Would the blood of such a being be poisonous to a vampire? I mean assuming the vampire could somehow bypass protections (from evil) and all other native defenses these celestials tend to have.
Also what about aasimar? |
Edited by - jordanz on 01 Apr 2011 13:59:30 |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 15:12:52
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Celestials and other Outsiders are not mortal beings. they are of a Spiritual Nature, and are "enlightened" so to speak. they are not subject to the same transformative effects as Humanoids and mortal beings.
furthermore, Positive Energy does not equal "Good". Celestials and other Outsiders have the same balance of Positive and Negative Energy as mortals do. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 15:35:08
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| Vampiric kender.. the horror. I dont know if i should laugh at the hilarity, or run away in terror. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 15:38:07
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quote:
Originally posted by ChieftainTwilight
Celestials and other Outsiders are not mortal beings. they are of a Spiritual Nature, and are "enlightened" so to speak. they are not subject to the same transformative effects as Humanoids and mortal beings.
Agreed. Also, it says in the SRD that the vampiric template can only be applied to Humanoid and monstrous humanoid creatures, so no Vampiric Giants or Vampiric Owlbears (though image that coming at you!!) As for Aasimars, their considered an Outsider (native), so by the rules couldn't obtain the vampire template.
Alystra has a good idea too about how Vampiric dragons can come about, I hadn't thought about dragons in a "shapechanged" form of a humanoid. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 15:43:25
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Blood fiends are vampiric fiends. Although equally malificent, they are apparently unrelated to other fiends (baatezu, tanar'ri, yugoloths, etc) and are in some ways more like abominations, roughly analoguous to undead.
Tsagoth (from PSK's Haunted Lands trilogy) is a blood fiend, and many of his abilities are remarkably similar to those of (human) vampires. Although Tsagoth can feed upon any creature he seems to derive little or no sustenance from any prey other than fiends and vampires (whom he hunts with brutal efficiency when given a chance). In the novels he transformed a human into a blood fiend, although it apparently involved a sort of ritual and explicitly required her willing consent (otherwise he would have just attacked her); the transformation destroyed her sanity and her memory of anything beyond her hatred and vengeance, she was subsequently slain during her berserk rampage against her torturers.
The novels hint that Tsagoth's kind are largely unknown, at best something of a fearful legend among fiends. He has survived countless ages through exercising his superior power, ensuring that he is always the hunter instead of the hunted. In short, as an individual he is stronger than other fiends, he enjoys being a vicious evil bastard as much as the next fiend and also eats fiends for lunch, but he is far from invulnerable and depends upon his cunning to remain unthreatened. Of course, Tsagoth might be a remarkable or unique example of his kind and is therefore not necessarily representative of blood fiends in general; and of course what happens in novels is not necessarily accurate in terms of game rules.
I personally suspect that vampiric celestials aren't impossible, but if any do exist they'd be impossibly rare. Fiends regularly traffic with evil, undead, vampires, and blood; celestials do not. Aberrations (like vampirism) among fiends grant extra powers which can and will consequently be used to assert dominance and survival (with the added bonus of causing death, fear, and suffering). Similar aberrations among celestials would be seen as unholy/evil taint which must be immediately destroyed (or at best, cast down into the hells), assuming it's at all compatible with holy celestial essence and doesn't just poison, corrupt, and destroy them outright. Let's face it: a celestial entity who needs to drink the blood/vitality/essence of living creatures (even other celestials) is just not a realistically sustainable character concept; it might be argued that other celestials constantly sacrifice themselves to sustain a holy vampiric champion among their kind, but that approach is not tenable because celestials (by their very nature) are unwilling to measure and weigh the value of lives against each other, they would certainly never allow themselves to force others to make such a decision/sacrifice for them. This goes beyond emo shame, guilt, and remorse: celestials are absolutely unwilling to compromise with evil in any form; they are as blinded by their good as fiends are by their evil.
Tieflings and aasimar are diluted by human blood (and slippery human morality), so they might become vampiric. I'd be inclined to think that vampirism is toxic to aasimar and would diminish their vitality, they would probably mope off to some unpopulated isolation to die of starvation before allowing themselves to become irretrievably tainted with blood. Vampirism is evil, it is spiritually poisonous even when selectively feeding only upon evil victims. I'd say a vampiric aasimar would either die or become a standard (human) vampire, aasimar traits would be submerged and lost and serve no purpose beyond tragic background. When killed (that is, laid to rest), such a character's eternal soul would likely be unfit to return to the upper planes.
Brimstone (aka Capnolithyl) is a vampiric smoke drake in the Realms (as well as a scribe at Candlekeep). He is an example of a dragon with the vampiric template. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Apr 2011 16:34:27 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 15:44:56
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quote:
From the 3.5 SRD:
"Vampire" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
quote:
From the Pathfinder PRD:
“Vampire” is an acquired template that can be added to any living creature with 5 or more Hit Dice (referred to hereafter as the base creature). Most vampires were once humanoids, fey, or monstrous humanoids.
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Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 16:26:53
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| And Elves can't become undead, either, right? That's the propaganda the point ears used to schill? |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 16:32:02
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quote:
Originally posted by ChieftainTwilight
Celestials and other Outsiders are not mortal beings. they are of a Spiritual Nature, and are "enlightened" so to speak. they are not subject to the same transformative effects as Humanoids and mortal beings.
furthermore, Positive Energy does not equal "Good". Celestials and other Outsiders have the same balance of Positive and Negative Energy as mortals do.
a-HA! I do believe outsiders in general (whatever alignment) would be immune to vampirism (and other undeath, unless of course some weird extenuating circumstances are in effect, as with the visage in Libris Mortis), due to the fact that their body and soul aren't separate as they are with Primes. There are examples of outsiders becoming undead, but probably not by simply being turned by a human vampire's bite.
Yes, positive energy is not inherently good (there are creatures presumably driven mainly by positive energy, like lumi and ravids, that are neutral, and animated objects are entirely driven by positive energy and they're neutral), even as negative energy isn't inherently evil (thus I don't feel undead should be inherently evil, but that's another story). However, the standard vampire template gives them a weakness to strongly-presented holy symbols---they aren't harmed by them, only kept at bay---so I'd imagine if the DM wants the very blood of a powerful celestial to be "holy" like that, it might keep a vampire from biting them in any case. Or make them wish they hadn't.
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Vampirism is evil, it is spiritually poisonous
 (lol)
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"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 01 Apr 2011 16:49:16 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 16:41:56
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There's some merit to celestials and aasimars being unwholesome or toxic to vamps. But it might be said such blood is so full of vitality that vamps would prefer it above all others.
I thought I'd ignore the positive/negative planar elements and focus on the spiritual implications of vampirism instead. After all, vamps can eat paladins and priests and necromancers and other vamps. Positive planar energy and upper planar essence are often associated but are technically two different things. A negative plane protection spell linking to positive energy and a protection from evil spell linking to upper planar energy will both repel vampires, though the planar mechanisms are subtly different.
Tieflings and genasi are fair game for vamps. Abyssal genasi might be especially tasty. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Apr 2011 16:45:06 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 16:55:37
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quote:
Rhewtani
And Elves can't become undead, either, right? That's the propaganda the point ears used to schill?
That's a fair argument.
lol, my arguments are ultimately based on my personal interpretation of established lore. They're basically speculation and opinion. Things change, new lore and new creatures are constantly discovered.
If an author/DM decrees that vampiric celestials exist then a template is applied and the denizens of the land must bar their doors and shutters against another new threat. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 18:20:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I might see it happening if the dragon was in humanoid form when changed. Perhaps a really powerful vampire might imprison one and then feed on it, and it became a vampire itself when it died. That's just a guess, though.
Good point - this is my thinking as well.
In fact, this could be the reasoning behind so many of the 'rule-breakers' concerning vampirism. If something takes human/humanoid form, then is should be susceptible at that point. The curse is not a thinking, reasoning thing - it only 'knows' what it can act on - so it should be theoretically possible to 'fool' a curse. Once they change back, they would still have the curse (which is magical, not biological, in nature). The curse can't say "oh, sorry... my bad" and leave.
On the other hand, if you use some of our other reasoning (can't even recall which thread that was), and connect primal vampirism to Dragons, that 'blood-lust' could be part of draconic nature; something they have over-come through civilization and discipline... but something that is 'released' when the dracorage star passes (it taps into their deeply-buried primal nature).
So dragons may be vampiric naturally, but have 'evolved' enough to ignore it, most of the time. Having fangs that 'suck' blood isn't the only form of vampirism - so long as they are getting their thirst slated it all works out. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 18:32:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
There's some merit to celestials and aasimars being unwholesome or toxic to vamps. But it might be said such blood is so full of vitality that vamps would prefer it above all others.
It could be that the blood is too full of vitality -- so much so that it would be painful and or burn out the vampire. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 18:43:50
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| I like where that is going.... Celestial Blood could be like Heroine for a vamp (deliciously self-destructive). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 19:00:40
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quote:
Savage Species, pages 142-143
The Pyramid from Base to Top
Animal, Humanoid, Vermin: These types form the base of the pyramid. These are the simplest creature types, with the fewest exotic abilities. Almost any template applied to them overrides their type.
Magical Beast, Monstrous Humanoid: These two types occupy the level above the base, a narrow band between humanoid, whose type they override, and more exotic types such as aberration, fey, giant, outsider, and humanoid (shapechanger), whose types override theirs).
Fey, Giant: These two types occupy the level above magical beast and monstrous humanoid. While they override animal, humanoid, magical beast, and monstrous humanoids, other types override theirs.
Dragon, Humanoid (Shapechanger): These two types occupy the level above fey and giant.
Aberration: This type sits alone at the level above dragon and humanoid (shapechanger).
Elemental, Ooze, Plant: These three types occupy the level just below the top. If some other template is applied to them, they generally retain whichever of these three types they have.
Construct, Outsider, Undead: These three types reside at the top of the pyramid. Once a creature becomes an undead or a construct through the application of a templete (sic), it cannot become something else. Once a creature stops being a native of the Material Plane, it becomes an outsider and stays one.
I believe this book was published in the transition from 3.0 to 3.5. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
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My game design work:
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* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Immmunity to vampirism?
