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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 10:09:29
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Hi Folks,
coming from the mining question, I am wondering if there are any more rules / guidelines concerned with governing / running either a small country ( like in the bloodstone series ) or a strip of land granted to a party by some local rulers as domain area.
of course as DM you can set anything you wish, but again, dicing it out is sometimes, for me personally at least, much more fun.
Guidelines about profitability of armories, inns and other businesses, general taxation, harvested grain and general need for population etc etc.
looking forward to your replies.
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 11:20:17
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| The D&D Companion Set has guidelines for this. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 11:46:15
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| For Realms specific information about this, check out Powers of Faerūn. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 12:37:01
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| There is always Basic D&D which spent some time on establishing and running a realm. It was simple in that it deals with land overall. 6 miles hexes IIRC in which a certain resources existed and the amount of revenue the rules would receive from based on population. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 18:06:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
There is always Basic D&D which spent some time on establishing and running a realm. It was simple in that it deals with land overall. 6 miles hexes IIRC in which a certain resources existed and the amount of revenue the rules would receive from based on population.
I thought those were 30 mile hexes?
I'll have to look at my Rules Compendium (after I dig it out) and see.
But it is a fair take on how to run a small domain on up to an empire...though the coinage system it is using is not the same as other editions of D&D...so you would have to calculate a conversion rate. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 22:26:56
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@alisttair, I do not have POF on my radar, I have to admit, but the information in there is mainly focused on maintaining the grip in the area, either by force or diplomacy, or does it also give information about taxation, costs, income for business etc.
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 22:30:29
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@alisttair, I do not have POF on my radar, I have to admit, but the information in there is mainly focused on maintaining the grip in the area, either by force or diplomacy, or does it also give information about taxation, costs, income for business etc.
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 22:32:22
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@alisttair, I do not have POF on my radar, I have to admit, but the information in there is mainly focused on maintaining the grip in the area, either by force or diplomacy, or does it also give information about taxation, costs, income for business etc.
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 23:11:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakuta Khan
@alisttair, I do not have POF on my radar, I have to admit, but the information in there is mainly focused on maintaining the grip in the area, either by force or diplomacy, or does it also give information about taxation, costs, income for business etc.
It mostly covers the governing of a 'power group' in the Realms; whether running a temple (or a whole Faith), an army, or a political entity. There's not a whole lot of 'roll dxx to determine income for each hectare for the year' stuff there, but there is a load of cool lore as well as good advice for the DM whose players are running the group as well as for the players doing the running.
FWIW, I've been running my players as local lordlings (a Council of Lords ruling a barony, with cumulative power equal to a baron) in an area on the border of Damara and Impiltur. My experience in doing so has led me to this revelation; most players would make lousy nobles.  They know very little about how taxes are collected, what sort of household employees they need and how much they should be paid, how to best exploit natural resources, how to build, train, equip, and maintain a military unit, or even which courtiers need to be heeded and which are interested only in expanding their own power and wealth.
I solved this by allowing the players to hire or enlist specialists in various fields. For example, an ex-Herald offered her services in helping the players to run their household and the players took her up on it when she quickly showed her prowess in this area, as well as her intelligence-gathering acumen: Of course, she was a Moonstar agent, sent by Khelben to keep an eye on 2 members of the party who had drawn his attention, and who eventually recruited one of them into the group and became his 'handler'. Another example is the Paladin of the Red Knight who asked permission to found a temple-monastery (with an eye toward starting a War College of sorts); after gaining the PC's trust, he was not only granted his land and some funds for building but also knighted and placed in command of the Baronial Guard.
In short, this approach allowed me to not only handwave the aspects of governance that the PCs were ignorant of/not interested in (i.e., 'the Herald will handle it') but also to further enmesh the players in the aspects of the political game that *does* interest them (namely power-plays and backroom politics interspersed with the occasional need to go kill something scary).
Running a political game is very challenging, and requires LOADS of prep-work compared to other games, but is (for me, at least) totally worth it.
Good luck! |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 02 Mar 2011 23:25:33 |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 01:59:55
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| Jakuta, I'm in the same boat, with a player just having become heir to the Hulmaster lands (i.e. the ruins of Hulburg). I was looking through Fields of Blood, and I've been looking at PoF, but I haven't found a great answer. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 07:29:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
There is always Basic D&D which spent some time on establishing and running a realm. It was simple in that it deals with land overall. 6 miles hexes IIRC in which a certain resources existed and the amount of revenue the rules would receive from based on population.
I thought those were 30 mile hexes?
I'll have to look at my Rules Compendium (after I dig it out) and see.
But it is a fair take on how to run a small domain on up to an empire...though the coinage system it is using is not the same as other editions of D&D...so you would have to calculate a conversion rate.
Well looking at Rules Cyclopedis, I read 24 miles miles (1 Map hex) and 1-3 map hexes (8 miles per hex* *shrugs* Mayne AD&D had 6 mile hexes, or prior BD&D.
Clearly this source indicates a map hex of different sizes.
Oh it does go on to say is an advised guideline |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 07:46:55
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| That's right! 24 miles to a hex...maybe I was thinking of Greyhawk? I dunno. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 12:36:52
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| Still a good book to use though |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 12:37:19
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| Still a good book to use though |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 12:38:12
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| Still a good book to use though |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 14:47:34
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| Alistair's got this new triple-post error problem. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 16:22:15
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Didn't some of the 2e books have stuff on this subject, like the Castle guide and maybe Creative Campaigning? I could have sworn I had read something about this in one of the MANY 2e soft-splats.
If not, AEG I am sure has an entire 3e book on the subject (Cityworks and Toolbox come to mind).
As for me, I still use my old Chivalry & Sorcery rules for stuff like that, which cover everything from mental illness to running a barony to having a toothache. Still THE most comprehensive (and detailed) 1-book RPG rules I have EVER read. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Mar 2011 16:26:25 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 16:27:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
Alistair's got this new triple-post error problem.
It's not a problem. It's because my posts are worth triple  . |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 16:28:35
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| One of my favorite Dragon articles ever was called "Meanwhile, back on the fief..." and was essentially random encounter tables for your castle. It's somewhere in the mid-100's; I'll track down the exact issue number for you when I get home. But it was full of great ideas to spice up an otherwise boring week of being a feudal lord. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 16:28:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Didn't some of the 2e books have stuff on this subject, like the Castle guide and maybe Creative Campaigning? I could have sworn I had read something about this in one of the MANY 2e soft-splats.
Ah yes the Castle Guide. I believe I have that one. IIRC you are correct that it might have information on that.
How about teh 3.0 Stronghold Builder's Guidebook? A friend of mine has it and I flipped through it, but didn't see enough to remember if that might have info for this as well? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 18:38:13
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| The Kingmaker adventure path from Pathfinder has rules for building a kingdom, I don't know if they are any good. |
z455t |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 18:47:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Kno
The Kingmaker adventure path from Pathfinder has rules for building a kingdom, I don't know if they are any good.
Is that one of the newer ones? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 19:17:39
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| About a year old. I'm into the newer one, it has the serpentfolk and an Indiana Jones style. |
z455t |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 23:02:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
One of my favorite Dragon articles ever was called "Meanwhile, back on the fief..." and was essentially random encounter tables for your castle. It's somewhere in the mid-100's; I'll track down the exact issue number for you when I get home. But it was full of great ideas to spice up an otherwise boring week of being a feudal lord.
Dragon 125  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2011 : 09:38:02
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Who knows if Birthright campaign setting has such rules?
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z455t |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2011 : 15:35:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kno
Who knows if Birthright campaign setting has such rules?
Hmm, good point. Mayhaps it does.  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2011 : 18:11:56
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Chapter 5 of the Birthright boxed campaign setting is called Ruling a Domain, but that word is used differently in that setting (Domains are tied to powers), so I'm not sure how much you could glean from that that isn't tied directly to those rules.
Looking at it quickly, there does seem to be some useful bits - cost of construction, taxes, military expenses, etc... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Mar 2011 18:12:36 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2011 : 18:39:35
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| More campaign setting specific then I see. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 04:09:00
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yes the Kingmaker Pathfinder advneture path has all of this
and if you want to save the expense of buying the entire path, i think their is an online PDF of just the kingdom rules available |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 04:55:06
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The Birthright setting has EXTENSIVE rules on running a domain; but they are designed to work only with Semi-Divine Blooded individuals and using such traits as Blood Strength and Regency.
I'm sure those rules could be adapted easily (and actually, I did just that once for the Forgotten Realms...alas I lost my map  that I had created with the provincial levels of the areas).
It is a good system for at least gleaning some solid ideas... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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To run a Barony / area etc. in the realms
