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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 02:58:27
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Because I am considerably more interested in this topic than I am in the topic of elves.
What fighting styles do you prefer reading? What real world fighting styles and martial arts do you find appropriate for realms cultures and characters, visually, thematicly, and stylistically?
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"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 03:02:35
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| I like Sea Elves the best. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 03:19:19
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| Seriously though, I enjoy watching kung-fu movies immensely. I don't care about the plot as long as the moves are good. Visually, I really like Snake-style, both unarmed and with the straight sword. I also think Monkey-style is extremely deceptive and fun to watch and imitate. Any of the Drunken-styles are entertaining. Drunken Monkey especially. Also, Capoeira is a fun to watch, as a young man I did some break-dancing and I love how the body is kept in motion, one move flowing into the next. I'm not sure how those would translate into the Realms. I've often wondered about dwarven martial-arts. A lot of wrestling and grappling, I imagine. As a fairly small man myself, and being in my youth, a drinker, I have been in a good amount of fights. I find that once a larger man is off his feet, raw strength becomes much less important. Agility, flexibility and leverage on the other hand make all the difference on the ground. A good choke hold can put anybody down in under a minute. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 21 Feb 2011 03:55:51 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 03:31:48
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| I've always pictured dwarven fighting styles as similar to pankration; greek martial art that blends elements of boxing and wrestling and throws out the rulebooks on both. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4495 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 03:37:27
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You know, it's been a long while since I've seen a movie with good sword fighting in it. I remember watching Shanghai Knights and the end battle between the evil Duke (or whatever his title was) with his dual-sabres fighting Jackie Chan was pretty stunning visually. You just don't see that sort of fighting in movies now-a-days.
I prefer reading about battles, not so much about one-on-one duels. For example, I found the novel "Realms of War" really great because it had a little bit of everything. If I were to choose which style to read, well I'm a sucker for Drizzt honestly. I think RAS really delves into duel scenes and immerses the reader into what's going on.
In RL, I'm not really that interested except for MMA fighting. I think Mixed Martial Arts has a little for everyone. It can go down to a all out boxing match. It has kick-boxing and submission holds. It has wrestling to a point. And it's all very very real. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 03:43:11
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I think RAS can get a little too detailed at times. More than once I've had to set the book down, lean back, scratch my head and think "Ok, how would that work..."
I've also noted the amount of detail he puts into a fight can be proportional to how well Drizzt is doing in that fight; if he's dominating, expect nearly ever swing of his sword to be given detail. If it's evenly matched, it'll be glossed over in the prose. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 15:21:21
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Now then. I'm 6'1", little over 200lbs. My best friend is 6'5", well over 300lbs. We've been in two fights since we've known each other; one was a friendly spar that I managed to win by getting behind him, putting him, kicking out his knees, and putting him in a choke hold. The second time, I actually managed to piss him off. He was on me before I knew what happened, and I was a few inches off the ground trying to get his arms from around my neck. Fight got broken up by a mutual friend before either of us could do any damage.
In my experience if you inflict enough mechanical damage(joints, tendons), the big guy will go down just like anyone else. Getting them to the ground helps; everyone's the same size down there. The problem is if you're not strong enough to get them down, or rather if they're strong enough to keep you from getting them down, and in turn, strong enough to get you down, then you're in serious trouble. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 15:25:44
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(breaking this up due to ps3 character limit)
And choke holds, while extremely effective, aren't guarentees of success. Anyone who really knows what they're doing will simply lift up on your arm to take the pressure off(assuming rear naked choke), though most have the instinct to pull rather than push. Alternatively I've seen, and on one occasion, experienced first hand, people being grapped and flipped over onto the ground by the person they had in the hold. Elbows and headbutts are of course a problem not to mention if they go for your thumbs they can pry your grip loose more often than not. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 16:37:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
(breaking this up due to ps3 character limit)
And choke holds, while extremely effective, aren't guarentees of success. Anyone who really knows what they're doing will simply lift up on your arm to take the pressure off(assuming rear naked choke), though most have the instinct to pull rather than push. Alternatively I've seen, and on one occasion, experienced first hand, people being grapped and flipped over onto the ground by the person they had in the hold. Elbows and headbutts are of course a problem not to mention if they go for your thumbs they can pry your grip loose more often than not.
Choke holds aren't success guarantees, but if you get taken to the ground by someone who knows ground fighting choke holds are the least of your worries. There are arm and leg locks that, due to simple mechanics, work no matter how strong you are or your opponent is. I have a friend into that kind of thing and while I have maybe 30 pounds and 3-4 inches on him he could take me in an instant as soon as we got to the ground. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 16:41:30
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Someone did a martial-Arts 'breakdown' of the Realms, placing almost all known fighting styles (and not just Oriental).
I think it was on the WotC forums and not here, and it is definitely worth searching for (but good luck finding it over at WotC - that was at least two forum-upgrades ago).
Strangely, I don't recall bothering to save it (but I will check anyway, if you can't find it). He had done a very thorough job, and included many forms I was unaware of.
EDIT: I just tried (very quickly) to find it over there, and now I have the feeling the thread I was thinking of may have actually been here at the 'keep. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Feb 2011 18:07:00 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 20:34:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
EDIT: I just tried (very quickly) to find it over there, and now I have the feeling the thread I was thinking of may have actually been here at the 'keep.
You mean this thread? I did find it very useful. |
Edited by - Quale on 21 Feb 2011 20:35:20 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 23:11:05
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Idilippy; very true.
Mark, Quale, thanks a lot for that link. Looks very interesting. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2011 : 23:29:13
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That be the one. 
I'll have to copy that into my ever-growing pdf of HB/fan lore; that thread's a good read. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Feb 2011 23:29:35 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 00:22:34
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| Mentioned earlier that pankration is (in my opinion) a great option for dwarves, and I stand by that. I also think it's a good style to apply to orcs and half-orcs, very physical, very brutal. Thinking of incorporating some aspects of muay thai and mau rakau(new zealand weapon based martial art) into that. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 04:54:24
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| My Halflings use Aikido - an art that uses an opponent's size and strength against them. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Feb 2011 04:54:48 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 06:20:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Capoeira could be a form used by dervishes in the Realms, both with and without weapons. I could see a lot of elves and halflings using it, too.
With this in mind, I offer my own humble example of a martial-arts-derived PrC.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 07:59:33
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In my home brew, I use capoeira as a troll style(I use the warcraft model for trolls), combined with some zande, zulu, and lucha libre elements.
In the realms I've been considering it for shadar-kai; it's very much a showey, flashy style that fits with there devil may care attitude, I think. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 16:54:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Makes sense. But a halfling dervish could be deadly. He'd literally fight circles around his opponents.
Note the style in this demonstration
Not onle does he demonstrate the technique from his knees a good deal of the time (to simulate a tiny 'victim'), but he also uses a constant swirling motion while standing to confuse his two opponents (and force them to get in each other's way).
The very end shows some of the 'whirling dervish' tactics you are looking for, and I've seen other video''s showing that particular technique much better (against several opponents). Its a completely defensive art designed to use the other person's momentum and size against them - PERFECT for halflings, IMHO.
BTW, not trying to start a debate - I just wanted to post a video that had both the unimportance of height in Aikido and some of the swirling, hard-to-hit motion you were looking for. Bear in mind that is a demonstration - all of that would be happening MUCH faster, so the Aikido techniques would be more effective (its hard for demonstrations to do this art justice - it relies on the speed of your opponent).
BTW, you know how I became aware of this particular style? It was used by a little old lady to beat up the Hulk, right after he trashed a pack of super-beings. Turns out, Aikido is PERFECT for use against an immense, ferocious and fast adversary. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 17:31:16
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| Actually, I would think that daido-ryu might work a little better than aikido in a combat application. It's the mean grouchy grandfather of the aikido system. Most of the movements end with the opponent landing on their head, something getting broken or more likely both. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 18:37:44
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Sounds similar to Tai-Zen, a local (around here) art that uses two-step techniques so that every defensive move is also an offensive move.
Its beautiful when you see it performed by a master (I got to see the guy who created it doing just that, several times - in the 70's he was listed in a martial arts magazine as one of the 'Top ten Deadliest martial Artists in the World'). Your opponent CANNOT strike you offensively without getting hurt in return... and nearly every block and counter is designed to break a bone (in order to end the encounter quickly). Its not designed to kill; its designed to inflict maximum amounts of pain so your opponent gives up. I've never seen it demonstrated on multiple targets, though, so I'm not sure how effective it would be in that arena. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 22:02:03
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| Well it wouldn't surprise me if other places had variations that looked similar. The human body has a finite number of ways it can move to deal damage and the limits at which things will start to break also fall into a certain range. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 23:57:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Marvelous, Sage! And might I ask, what was that drow-related PrC you were working on? I'm very curious now. Did that ever make it past Sage Time?
Believe or it or not, I can't exactly recall whether I finished working on it.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2011 : 12:00:01
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| I don't know much about Aikido beyond being aware of it's reputation as an extremely effective style, and what I've seen Stephen Segal do(he's a grandmaster at it, I understand). That being said, and I realize this is comics and not meant to be taken completely seriously, I have to believe using it to beat the Hulk, someone who has lifted up mountain ranges over his head, is stretching it a little. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2011 : 15:14:57
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The thing is with daido-ryu and aikido, you don't have to beat all of the Hulk. You just have to beat a few of his fingers. Then he can fall on his head. 
Although with the Hulk that might not be as effective as it would for people other than the Hulk. No brains no pains and all that. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2011 : 20:50:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I don't know much about Aikido beyond being aware of it's reputation as an extremely effective style, and what I've seen Stephen Segal do(he's a grandmaster at it, I understand). That being said, and I realize this is comics and not meant to be taken completely seriously, I have to believe using it to beat the Hulk, someone who has lifted up mountain ranges over his head, is stretching it a little.
Well, the point is, the style uses an opponents mass/size, speed, and strength against them, so the harder the blow they throw, the further they get flung.
So while I would have to agree that it looked pretty silly when the old broad beat the Hulk up, it did make some sense. In the end she had to be saved, because all she was doing was making him madder (and stronger), and the style was already at it's upward limit of usability (plausibility, in this case). Plus she was getting VERY tired, and the Hulk wasn't.
Yes, The Hulk has lifted a Mountain range on the Beyonder World, and that range was larger and heavier then the Earth itself. There goes your 'believability factor' right out the window.
As an aside, Superman fought the Hulk once, and it was interesting in that he was winning at first, and then he was only able to match him. In the end, he was forced to snap the Hulk's neck (after getting him in a headlock) because he realized the hulk would eventually get stronger even then the mighty Man of Steel himself.
Which was probably done because it was an early cross-over, and that way neither company had the 'toughest mortal'. Superman has also been known to 'push planets'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2011 20:50:34 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2011 : 21:01:57
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| True, comic book physics are often...wonky. Just seems to me, and again, not an expert in the style so I could be off, that against someone with literal super human strength, which is possible in the realms, where one to attempt to deflect, flip, lock, or hold someone the way they'd use the style against a muscle bound human, the result would simply be that they'd get their arm broken for their effort. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Fighting styles & Martial arts, RL & in the realms
