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Blaha
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 18:44:41
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I am looking to conduct an adventure is Realmspace but want to know what is the consensus out there on the effects of the Spellplague on Spelljamming Helms?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 19:14:40
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In my own hypothesis (which predates 4e by at least two years), the Helms were re-designed after the Fall of Netheril, because the Mercane (Arcane) were VERY upset when all their helms ceased functioning (along with their angry customers).
The new Helms were designed with ancient, non-Weave magics (Dwarves and the first Forgehelm were involved... they were one of the few that continued to operate after the fall).
Ergo, continuing this line of reasoning forward into the new post-plague era... the helms would be unaffected.
Not canon, so take it as you will.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 19:20:17
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| I'd imagine that spelljamming helms wouldn't be affected by the Spellplague, unless active at the moment it hit -- and even then, they'd come back up as normal, afterward. Remember, helms are made elsewhere, by the Arcane, and function in a lot of spheres -- so they don't depend on the Weave. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 19:32:34
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| I'm not so well versed in what spelljamming helms actually do, but I remember some designer saying that magical items from ages past (like 1385 and previous) would work just the same in 1479 DR. So if spelljamming helms didn't require a constant active connection to the weave then it'd work just fine. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8035 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 21:02:24
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I agree with Wooly. Spelljamming helms operate in any crystal sphere, not just limited to Realmspace. They also operate in the phlogiston between spheres. Gith pirates can shift and operate their helms across the astral and perhaps other planes. So they're clearly not dependent on a localized phenomenon like the Weave.
There's a lot of different varieties of helms which use fundamentally different power sources, there's even a rare artifurnace variety which operates by constantly sucking magic out of an artifact (this sort of helm should operate as long as the artifact operates, regardless of edition). |
[/Ayrik] |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 21:03:36
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By canon, (Check the .pdf "The Spellplague, the Wailing Years) permanent magic items were either not effected by, or were 'warped and twisted' but still functioning, after the Spellplague.
So no worries! The Spellplague did not have a 'shattering' effect on Spelljamming! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 22:36:09
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That's simple enough.
Re-reading this thread made me realize my own theories (in this regard) are out-of-date. At the time I conjectured about the SJ Helms within Realmspace, I was still working with the notion that the Weave accounted for ALL magic within Realmspace (ergo, no Weave = NO magic, regardless of source).
We now know that not to be true, so I have to adjust my line of reasoning accordingly.
This actually helps my hypothesis that the Mercane 'tampered' with Karsus' research. If 'greater then Weave' magic is required for Helms, and the Netherease (obviously) had access to this sort of magic (since they advanced beyond the 9th level) through the Nether scrolls, then it would have been in the best interest of the Mercane to hit the 'reset button' on the Netherease (thus maintaining their near-monopoly of Helm construction). Its canonical that the Netherease managed to create some basic SJ tech, and made NO friends in Realmspace, so this seems to fit nicely.
Hmph.. this means the Mercane could have been the ones who guided karsus' hand... and since we now know that Shar influenced events as well, could it be the Mercane were working with Shar?
Could SJ Helms be based on Shadow-magic? 
It would make some sense, given what we know of the inter-connectivity of the shadow plane with all other worlds. Perhaps a SJ Helm allows to a physical object to become psuedo-spectral and travel through the ethereal portion of the Plane of Shadows.
Hmmmmm... I need Gray for this one.... {insert head-scratching smiley}
Maybe the Mercane are descendants of the original Shadovari.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Feb 2011 22:39:36 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 22:48:05
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Spelljammers can plane shift now, whether that's related to the Spellplague I don't now.
I read somewhere that the Mercane are from the previous multiverse, similar to the fey. Also they can't reproduce and cause of that they are building their god. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 23:09:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
That's simple enough.
Re-reading this thread made me realize my own theories (in this regard) are out-of-date. At the time I conjectured about the SJ Helms within Realmspace, I was still working with the notion that the Weave accounted for ALL magic within Realmspace (ergo, no Weave = NO magic, regardless of source).
We now know that not to be true, so I have to adjust my line of reasoning accordingly.
This actually helps my hypothesis that the Mercane 'tampered' with Karsus' research. If 'greater then Weave' magic is required for Helms, and the Netherease (obviously) had access to this sort of magic (since they advanced beyond the 9th level) through the Nether scrolls, then it would have been in the best interest of the Mercane to hit the 'reset button' on the Netherease (thus maintaining their near-monopoly of Helm construction). Its canonical that the Netherease managed to create some basic SJ tech, and made NO friends in Realmspace, so this seems to fit nicely.
Hmph.. this means the Mercane could have been the ones who guided karsus' hand... and since we now know that Shar influenced events as well, could it be the Mercane were working with Shar?
Could SJ Helms be based on Shadow-magic?
It would make some sense, given what we know of the inter-connectivity of the shadow plane with all other worlds. Perhaps a SJ Helm allows to a physical object to become psuedo-spectral and travel through the ethereal portion of the Plane of Shadows.
Hmmmmm... I need Gray for this one.... {insert head-scratching smiley}
Maybe the Mercane are descendants of the original Shadovari.
The Shadow Plane does not connect with the Flow.
And the Shadow Weave does not exist outside of Realmspace.
Lastly, I don't know of anything that implies Shar is more than a Realms deity. Even interloper deities are generally not "universally" worshipped, with the exception of Ptah. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 00:19:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd imagine that spelljamming helms wouldn't be affected by the Spellplague, unless active at the moment it hit -- and even then, they'd come back up as normal, afterward. Remember, helms are made elsewhere, by the Arcane, and function in a lot of spheres -- so they don't depend on the Weave.
And given that the Arcane are wise to most matters "arcane," I'd imagine they'd have something of a fix for helms affected by the Spellplague. Or, at the very least, determine possibilities for a helm that could work in a post-Spellplague environment -- since the Arcane would have undoubtedly researched how and why helms may work better in some alternate environments which may have differing magical frameworks. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 00:23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Lastly, I don't know of anything that implies Shar is more than a Realms deity. Even interloper deities are generally not "universally" worshipped, with the exception of Ptah.
Heh. I've always suspected that the war galley Matet might have been something of a spelljammer. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8035 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 02:20:48
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Netheril may have independently discovered or duplicated some (Weave-based) spelljamming magic, but spelljamming helms (and the arcane/mercane monopoly on them) predated the Netherese by a long time. Netherese arcanists who first devised spelljamming-like magics encountered an already well-established community throughout Realmspace and beyond. Spelljammer histories describe antediluvian events: the age-old elven diaspora and imperium, the inhuman wars of aeons past, millennia of predation by gith pirates (themselves a modern offshoot from even more ancient interstellar events involving githyanki, their forerunner homeworld, and a legendary illithid star empire), interactions with impossibly old star dragons of massive power, the living spelljammer ship/creature itself (which was covered with ancient ruins, fortifications, and inhabitants), the organic ships of the elven armada which are said to take many centuries to mature and many more to breed.
Incidentally, most Netherese arcanists were completely disinterested in spelljamming (as anything more than an idle novelty) after discovering that it was already well developed. Karsus certainly did no research into spelljamming spells or devices of any sort, though it's conceivable Shadow/Telamont may have been interested insofar as the phlogiston/spheres interacted with his planar research (which was largely sponsored by Karsus). The Netherese, like many other civilizations (including the drow), basically wasted no time on spelljamming simply because they had access to other cheaper/better/faster methods like gates and planar travel. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 18 Feb 2011 02:24:45 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 03:37:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The Netherese, like many other civilizations (including the drow), basically wasted no time on spelljamming simply because they had access to other cheaper/better/faster methods like gates and planar travel.
Actually, there are spelljamming drow. They have a particular hatred of neogi, considering them an affront to Lolth. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8035 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 04:27:45
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| They must use a lot of sunblock. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 04:49:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Incidentally, most Netherese arcanists were completely disinterested in spelljamming (as anything more than an idle novelty) after discovering that it was already well developed.
I think the the fact that Netherese had to rely on the Arcane for just about all their spelljamming needs, too, probably rankled them just a little. Considering the typical penchant for Netherese arrogance, of course.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 04:50:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The Netherese, like many other civilizations (including the drow), basically wasted no time on spelljamming simply because they had access to other cheaper/better/faster methods like gates and planar travel.
Actually, there are spelljamming drow. They have a particular hatred of neogi, considering them an affront to Lolth.
Indeed. There was an entire mini-campaign setting built around the concept in the form of "Shadow of the Spider-Moon" in DUNGEON #92/POLYHEDRON #151. |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 05:55:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
They must use a lot of sunblock.
Their ships, jade spiders, are mostly enclosed. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8035 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 06:08:49
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| Jade spiders. I love the imagery that evokes. Like jade skeleton or jade centaur. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Spellplague vs. Spelljamming in Realmspace
