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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 15:33:08
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In an effort to minimize fanatical worship of Karsus bleeding into various threads and potentially hijacking them (for the clergy is ever growing), I am creating this thread as a place of worship for all true believers to come and pay homage to the one true deity whose divine resurrection is nigh upon us! Come one! Come all! 
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Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 16:26:35
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Ah yes ... I was invited, Alisttair? 
I gotta ask, seriously, exactly what the hell is this about, eh? The "once-great" Karsus the Archwizard, tormented, humiliated, being punished (by succubi) in hell, humbly seeking redemption and offering confession for his "crime", and — most unacceptably heinous of all! — being addressed as a common 15th-level wizard. Pah!
Clearly this is not truly Karsus, nay, this is an imposter!
(Parakarsus, perhaps? Oh, nevermind, bad joke.)
Clearly this story of Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide is baleful bile and BioWare blasphemy!
Mrawrrrmumblegrumblegrog... |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Feb 2011 17:21:47 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 17:29:51
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Do not blaspheme and speak Karsus' name in vain. His glorious might will smite you down heathen!!
Arik you may repent and give your soul to mighty Karsus! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 17:35:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Ah yes ... I was invited, Alisttair?
I gotta ask, seriously, exactly what the hell is this about, eh? The "once-great" Karsus the Archwizard, tormented, humiliated, being punished (by succubi) in hell, humbly seeking redemption and offering confession for his "crime", and — most unacceptably heinous of all! — being addressed as a common 15th-level wizard. Pah!
Clearly this is not truly Karsus, nay, this is an imposter!
(Parakarsus, perhaps? Oh, nevermind, bad joke.)
Clearly this story of Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide is baleful bile and BioWare blasphemy!
Mrawrrrmumblegrumblegrog...
Heh, I remember this when I played NWW: SoU. I head a real "WTF? moment" there.
About Karsus worshippers, in of the DDI Dungeon adventures there's an adventure about a dwarf warlock who somehow made a pact with Karsus. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 18:03:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus
About Karsus worshippers, in of the DDI Dungeon adventures there's an adventure about a dwarf warlock who somehow made a pact with Karsus.
Time for you to make the pact as well  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 19:12:16
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| There's an interesting idea ... Tyranthraxus the Flamed One worshipping the Vestige of Karsus. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 19:14:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
There's an interesting idea ... Tyranthraxus the Flamed One worshipping the Vestige of Karsus.
Well Tyranthraxus is power-hungry. A pool of radiance was the wrong way to go, but a vestige pact with Karsus is THE way to go. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Kanya Skulls
Acolyte
17 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 21:25:25
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Who's Karsus? |
Disclaimer: I spewed all of this out off the top of my head and make no claim whatsoever that any of it is accurate or even correct. |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 21:44:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Kanya Skulls
Who's Karsus?
A wizard who got too big for his britches, caused one of the deaths of the Goddess of Magic, and ultimately became a sort of big red rock. Endlessly fascinating to many of the scribes around here for reasons I bet we're going to hear all about in three, two...  |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 22:57:46
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Hail Karsus! May you return soon! |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 03:04:18
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So what are the worshippers of Karsus called? Karsians? Karsites? (Hopefully not Karsubians, a common misspelling of Kashubians.)
What sort of titles do the clergy use? Priest Ascendant? Apotheotic Acolyte? Apocalypse Junior? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 03:29:01
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| I worship Susrak, his doppleganger from the evil mirror universe. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 03:55:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
So what are the worshippers of Karsus called? Karsians? Karsites? (Hopefully not Karsubians, a common misspelling of Kashubians.)
What sort of titles do the clergy use? Priest Ascendant? Apotheotic Acolyte? Apocalypse Junior?
Worshippers= Karsians
High Priest= Archpriest
Knight= Archshield
Acolyte= Karsulyte
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 02 Feb 2011 03:57:33 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 11:50:09
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Wouldn't that be Arcpriest instead?
I suppose there isn't really much of an organized Church of Karsus (yet). Just a bunch of fanatics scattered throughout Faerûn. I suppose Karsus is entirely unknown outside of places like Candlekeep, perhaps the North (near the High Forest, at least) and the Anauroch. Sages of history and magic might know something of Karsus, as might clergy of Mystra and perhaps other powers (though they certainly wouldn't be recruiting Karsus worshippers). Survivors of Netheril, liches, and shadovar would likely also be aware of Karsus but generally unlikely to worship him. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 11:52:17
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And to worship him in ritual, is to perform Karsis, or, I am Karsising!
ALL HAIL MIGHTY KARSUS!!!! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 12:11:15
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Do Wulgreth and Jingleshod enjoy any special status in the eyes of Karsus?
The essence of Karsus resides within the Karsestone artifact (which also happens to be Wulgreth's lich phylactery, lol). An interesting summary about the Karsestone is here, though I'm unsure about the sources/canon of the latest facts described within. The Karsestone (and therefore Karsus's divine energy) is now lost, fragmented, or even in the possession of Shar (or Mask)? Is this true? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 12:18:35
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Shar took the Karstone before Malik could steal it. It's shown in The Sorcerer. Whether she kept it or brought it back to Shade is still unknown. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 18:53:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Wouldn't that be Arcpriest instead?
Nah. Kasus was a renowned Archwizard before his ascension. It's just appropriate that his followers carry a part of his former title. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 19:56:23
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Well, technically:
Karsus was a Netherese Arcanist, (unrestricted) arcs through Mystryl (pre-Fall)
Then (1E) Magic-Users and Archmagi, "uncapped" spells through Mystra (post-Fall, pre-ToT)
Then (2E) Wizards and Archwizards, "capped" spells through Midnight/Mystra v2 (post-ToT)
Then (3E, 3.5E, etc) ... Shar's Shadow Weave, etc
Then (4E) post-SP ... no Mystra? etc
Netheril describes rules for Arcanists, Magic-Users, and Wizards to relearn their art and how to manipulate the "changed" Weave whenever they first move to a different weave period. This relearning process requires research and experimentation. My point is that these three "spellcaster" classes are very similar but not identical. There are major functional differences between arcanists and wizards which go beyond the fluff/background; arcanists required a massive rewrite of the basic rules, even more detailed than rules outlining the 1E-to-2E spellcasting shift.
Netherese arcanists called themselves (and were called) arcanists, not wizards. They cast arcs, not spells. Wizards and spells technically didn't exist yet. Thus, I'm not so sure Karsus would call himself an Archwizard. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 21:10:04
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Read The Netheril trilogy, or at least Dangerous Games. Karsus was described/addressed as an archwizard there. And in case you forgot, ALL NOVELS ARE CANON. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 21:53:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Read The Netheril trilogy, or at least Dangerous Games. Karsus was described/addressed as an archwizard there. And in case you forgot, ALL NOVELS ARE CANON.
I don't know that I'd consider that a definitive reference. "Archwizard" may simply have been the author's way of not sayign arcanist 17,052 times in the novel. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 22:00:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Read The Netheril trilogy, or at least Dangerous Games. Karsus was described/addressed as an archwizard there. And in case you forgot, ALL NOVELS ARE CANON.
I don't know that I'd consider that a definitive reference. "Archwizard" may simply have been the author's way of not sayign arcanist 17,052 times in the novel.
Unless you can prove that or Clayton says otherwise, I remain on my claim.
Also, if you care to revisit the old tome, Netheril: Empire of Magic, you'll see that Karsus, along with several other arcanists who made their own enclaves, was described as an archwizard. For your and Arik's benefit, I quoted a piece from page 9 of the said book.
quote:
As Ioulaum perfected his greatest spell, Ioulaum’s longevity, you'll see Karsus, at the age of 22, became the youngest archwizard ever. To gain this title, one had to create a mythallar, carve an enclave from a mountain, erect a city upon it, and then claim it as his own.
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 02 Feb 2011 22:12:24 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 22:25:45
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Oh yeah. Novels. I do generally accept them as canon, I just sort of forgot about that rather dull trilogy and was only considering Arcane Ages: Netheril. I wonder how I completely overlooked that and <ahem> many other references to archwizards in Netheril. I'll accept Archwizard. Consequently, I'll also accept Archpriest as valid.
Mystra's priests called themselves "Servants/Lords/Ladies of Mystery" or held titles like "The Lady's Mage". Other priests have all sorts of silly titles, especially the highest ranking primates, patriachs, and proxies.
Karsus was known for arrogance, brilliance, unparalleled skill at magic, and of course his Ascension. I offer titles for the clergy enclave of Karsus which just sound cooler, more potent, lofty and superior ... Activator, Archon, Ascendant, Disciple, Ephemeral, Imperator, Mentalist, Nethermancer, Superior, Theorist ... they're not all that great, but they still sound better to me than "Archpriest" (it's just too corny, generic, and uninspired).
If we're gonna go with bland and generic then why not have a Hand of Karsus and Eye of Karsus? A lot of other cool gods do it, y'know. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Feb 2011 22:29:19 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 23:12:00
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Activator, Superior, and Disciple are not corny? Hah! I wonder how you define corny. 
I think a non-English but cool-sounding title is better. The Church of Karsus can borrow the titles of some of the most powerful beings in my books, Deidum, Thurzil, Vestijul. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 23:27:16
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I couldn't find any Netherese/Loross titles or vocabulary listed anywhere.
Yeah Superior and Disciple are even cornier than Archpriest. I should've edited that list before submission. I do kind of like Nethermancer. A lot more than Archpriest, anyhow. I might even use the name for some kind of Netherese prestige class, if there's ever a need.
Deidum sounds cool. What does it mean? Google can't translate and I don't speak Latin (or Lorem Ipsum).
Thurzil sounds tharchiozulkirish. Any connection? (OT: Was Thay founded or shaped by Netherese survivors?) |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Feb 2011 23:40:25 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 00:07:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Read The Netheril trilogy, or at least Dangerous Games. Karsus was described/addressed as an archwizard there. And in case you forgot, ALL NOVELS ARE CANON.
I don't know that I'd consider that a definitive reference. "Archwizard" may simply have been the author's way of not sayign arcanist 17,052 times in the novel.
Indeed. Archwizard is a fairly generic term when describing mages on considerable power.
Granted, it may have some definitive position in the Netherese lexicon, but it could simply be nothing more than a standard term of use for such a magic-heavy society. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 00:20:31
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Those three words are purely my own creation, based on three languages that I also created for my books. Deidum is the title of the ruler of a nation independent from the Council of Magic, the world's ultimate ruling body. Thurzil is a variation of Rumthar, the title of the prime leader of a city. And no, there's no connection to tharachion or zulkir. I made it up years before I became an FR reader. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 00:24:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Read The Netheril trilogy, or at least Dangerous Games. Karsus was described/addressed as an archwizard there. And in case you forgot, ALL NOVELS ARE CANON.
I don't know that I'd consider that a definitive reference. "Archwizard" may simply have been the author's way of not sayign arcanist 17,052 times in the novel.
Indeed. Archwizard is a fairly generic term when describing mages on considerable power.
Granted, it may have some definitive position in the Netherese lexicon, but it could simply be nothing more than a standard term of use for such a magic-heavy society.
Recently, archwizard is used to mean archmage or any wizard of considerable power. But during the time of Netheril---which is the context of this argument---archwizard was a title only conferred to those who successfully created their own floating enclaves. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 00:29:18
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Arik, on your OT:
No, there's no mention of it anywhere (as far as I know) that the founders of Thay are Netherese. In Dreams of the Red Wizards, they are only described as a sect who declared its freedom from the godkings of Mulhorand. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 07:29:11
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| I still find BioWare's non-canon NWN version of Karsus a bit insulting. Wizard 15? Seriously? I suppose your NWN party can kill Arthindol and Larloch, too? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2011 : 08:26:36
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Really, Wizard 15? The Church of Karsus decries such deliberate misrepresentation! |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Karsus Worship Thread
