| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Jelennet
Learned Scribe
Russia
131 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 16:57:32
|
|
A question about Dnd and Realms magic. Is there a spell or an artifact that can turn elves and half-elves into humans or humans into elves or half-elves?
|
|
|
Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 17:06:51
|
| Not sure if there is something specific for that other than polymorph spells. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
 |
|
|
Jelennet
Learned Scribe
Russia
131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 17:09:54
|
| How long does this spell last? Can it turn permanently? |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 17:10:13
|
| I'm sure there's something that will do that (though likely not designed specifically for elves and humans as much as altering any one member of a race into another race), but it's not been described anywhere that I know of. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 17:12:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jelennet
How long does this spell last? Can it turn permanently?
Polymorph Self is the spell in question I believe. It's not permanent, but I think you can use a Permanency spell in conjunction to make it so.
You could probably make a True Dweomer as per 2E rules of Tranmutation school to make a spell do that effect. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
|
|
|
Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 18:42:56
|
| Elf into human? I think there was a High Magic ritual (in Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves) that allowed an elf to become another race. Not sure if an EHM would want to cast it in such a case... |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
|
|
|
Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 20:54:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Elf into human? I think there was a High Magic ritual (in Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves) that allowed an elf to become another race. Not sure if an EHM would want to cast it in such a case...
Well, trying to get a selu'taar to cast anything of the High Art is pretty onerous. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 23:02:58
|
Polymorph can always work and does not have to be self, it can be enhanced with permanency. There is also reincarnate, though there you take your chances.
There are many magics to shape shift, it should not be hard to find one that fits character design. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 23:14:10
|
Or perhaps the ancient Sparkly Eye Ointment of Elfinkind ?
This beautiful eye make-up is identical to a Belt of Dwarvenkind save it is applied to the eyes, as opposed to the waist, and enhances the wearers nimbleness and diplomatic acumen with elves, while over the course of three-tenday, transforms the wearer into an elf. |
|
|
|
Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 23:26:33
|
| I'm just curious... If you do use a permanent polymorph, and that human turned elf has children down the road with an elf, would the children be part human or entirely elven? What if you turned a male human into a female elf? Could they even have children? |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
|
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 23:37:08
|
| Was permanent transformation from elf to human and vice versa shown in any novels? |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 23:54:37
|
| You can easily do this with a mid range druid and a crossbow. |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 00:40:05
|
| I'm confused- why would you need a crossbow? And Baleful Polymorph used to work on just about any creature (turning a pech into a hook horror comes to mind). Also, yes, there was a High Magic ritual for this, it was calledAkh'Faen'Tel'Quess, or "Form of the People's Need", and could change an elf into any other race, such as dwarf, human, gnome, halfling, drow, or another type of elf. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 00:58:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm sure there's something that will do that (though likely not designed specifically for elves and humans as much as altering any one member of a race into another race), but it's not been described anywhere that I know of.
There's also the rules-option Steven Schend presented in 2e, which allows one race to change into another. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 01:26:48
|
| you could use the wish spell.. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 02:25:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm sure there's something that will do that (though likely not designed specifically for elves and humans as much as altering any one member of a race into another race), but it's not been described anywhere that I know of.
There's also the rules-option Steven Schend presented in 2e, which allows one race to change into another.
I remember where it's from, now. The Lost Level adventure would allow anyone to become a dwarf and retain their skills. As I recall, that was one of the weirder ways in 2e to allow for dwarven wizards... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
|
|
Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 02:54:49
|
I would think that a moonblade is out of the question, since a human-turned-elf wouldn't have the familial connection to wield one. The child of a human-turned-elf with an elf with familial connections should.
|
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
|
|
Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 03:19:52
|
| Ah, sorry, I didn't catch that last. *goes to recharge the cup of tea* |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 05:46:46
|
From elven to another race (drow has been done as has mezzoloth and my 'unoffocial' realmslore has seen an elf change into a human) the Akh`Faen`Tel`Quess High Magic ritual can be used (Cormanthyr, p.132).
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 08:45:38
|
| There's also lady Shadowmoon of the Emerald Enclave or Khalreshaar of Evermeet. You have to die defending elves and they resurrect you. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 15:39:05
|
I don't think polymorph would do the trick... Polymorph gives someone the outward appearance of their new shape -- but that's it. A human polymorphed into an elf just gives you someone that really looks like an elf -- he'd not enter Reverie or live for centuries or be able to wield a moonblade, because despite his outward appearance, he's still a human.
To get those effects, you need something far more powerful, like a permanent shapechange or minor artifact or High Magic ritual. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 16:02:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't think polymorph would do the trick... Polymorph gives someone the outward appearance of their new shape -- but that's it. A human polymorphed into an elf just gives you someone that really looks like an elf -- he'd not enter Reverie or live for centuries or be able to wield a moonblade, because despite his outward appearance, he's still a human.
To get those effects, you need something far more powerful, like a permanent shapechange or minor artifact or High Magic ritual.
I think Polymorph is a bit stronger than that. Look here-->
quote:
Found in d20 SRD
This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. *The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form.
The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities.
*Bolded for emphasis
The subject would in all senses be an elf. If this situation were to become permanent, he would then gain "some" elven abilities such as +2 Dex, -2 Con and low-light visiion, and bonuses to skills. Do I think he could weield a Moonblade? No. Would he live longer? Yes. Would he gain the ability to use "elven" weapons such as the Thinblade as a Martial weapon? No. Physically he/she is an elf, though they wouldn't socially be an elf so they'd stick out when in elven communities like not respecting certain customs, etc.
It says in the spell description that they do NOT gain special qualities, and these special qualities are considered "elven traits" in their monster description. This would imply that they would not gain Immunity to sleep, +2 to Enchantment spells, enter Reverie, or gain the ability to notice secret or concealed doors. |
Edited by - Diffan on 22 Jan 2011 16:11:35 |
|
|
|
Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 16:39:50
|
This discussion is taking a fascinating philosophical turn. "Since neither the exterior nor the inward elf. Resembles that it was."
What about humans or other races (perhaps half-elves would be the most likely) who self-identify as elves? What about people who were once elves but have now been reincarnated as another race and wish to use magic to return to "elfhood?" Would those circumstances change whether or not the exterior and the inward elf could come into integration?
Cheers,
Christopher
|
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 16:56:22
|
Well, the d20 SRD says "The reincarnated creature gains all abilities associated with its new form, including forms of movement and speeds, natural armor, natural attacks, extraordinary abilities, and the like, but it doesn’t automatically speak the language of the new form."
So as I see it, that's the next best thing to being born a member of the new race. A human reincarnated as an elf might be more human in thinking, but would be an elf in all other regards. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 21:19:44
|
| reincarnation means that you change your way of thinking as well |
|
|
|
Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 22:14:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
reincarnation means that you change your way of thinking as well
You really think so? Even with what Wooly quoted there about the reincarnated being not necessarily gaining the language of her new racial/creature type? Seems like language is a big part of "way of thinking" to me, though that may be simple professional prejudice.
Cheers,
Christopher
|
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
|
|
|
Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 22:49:20
|
| IMO you would be reincarnated with all your old thoughts and memories, thus the reason you don't know a language you didn't know before. The body is new but its knowledge is not. The other abilities come with the form, but information doesn't. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Turn elf into human? Or human into elf?
