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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 00:44:36
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Some plans must be classic.
As we all have read in 4E, Shar manipulated Cyric into murdering Mystra in an attempt to gain control of the weave. Cyric, for his trouble, was banished to his keep to spend a millennium alone.
Does this plan sound familiar? Maybe because this was exactly the plan Mystra wanted to avoid in Prince of Lies circa 1989.
In the Pavilion of Cynosure when Mask was attempting to induce a chastised Mystra into an intrigue against Cyric the following exchange took place.
Mask- “Its time we joined forces, you and I. An alliance could aid us both.”
Mystra’s reply
“You get to foster intrigue,” said Mystra “and perhaps even gain some of Cyric’s titles if he happens to fall. I get condemned for stopping a mad gone from destroying the world. No thanks.”
It should be noted that any member of the Pantheon could monitor the Pavilion.
Maybe a certain Mistress of Night with a longstanding axe to grind against any incumbent of the goddess of magic chair was listening in?
A few decades later Mystra is slain and the patsy Cyric takes all the heat. Perhaps Shar and Mask are one and the same.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 00:54:47
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In the last chapter of Shadowrealm, Shar addressed Mask as her son. Here's the scene:
The frailties endemic to his one-time humanity resurfaced. His body shook. He did not wish to end. He did not wish to know what "end" meant. All that he had done, all that he had been, for nothing.
Or perhaps not. This time, he kept the hope from his face.
"Ah," his mother said, and sighed with satisfaction. "You see it now, here, at the end of things."
He nodded.
"Interest is due on your debt, my son." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 03:37:51
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| I haven't read Shadowrealm yet, but this is quite interesting! |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 04:16:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus
I haven't read Shadowrealm yet, but this is quite interesting!
I too have yet to read Shadowrealm. Interesting tidbit indeed! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 04:27:32
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| I recommend you read the Twilight War trilogy. Shar and Mask have done both covert and overt meddling in that series. And there's a scene hinting that Cyric might also be involved in Mask and Shar's plans. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 06:21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I recommend you read the Twilight War trilogy. Shar and Mask have done both covert and overt meddling in that series. And there's a scene hinting that Cyric might also be involved in Mask and Shar's plans.
What scene would that be? Where Riven comments that nobody has come for revenge? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 07:29:20
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I said might because Paul didn't give an outright answer. Here's his reply to TobiK's query about such scene:
quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
TobiK,
I'm greatly pleased that you enjoyed the novel.
As for your question: Someone on my blog asked the same question and theorized that the beggar, if he was real and not merely a figment of Elyril's increasingly strange halucinations, was either Mask or Cyric. Interesting, no?
I will tell you that the beggar was real, and was either Mask or Cyric, but you'll have to decide for yourself which it was (or PM me and I'll stop being coy and tell you outright ; I just think some things are fun to leave open).
Maybe even that Mask who appeared to Cale and Riven many times could have the Prince of Lies himself. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 18:36:52
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Aye, save Shar has plotted to destroy Mystra, her mother, and all of Creation since the beginning of time on Faerun.
quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
Some plans must be classic.
As we all have read in 4E, Shar manipulated Cyric into murdering Mystra in an attempt to gain control of the weave. Cyric, for his trouble, was banished to his keep to spend a millennium alone.
Does this plan sound familiar? Maybe because this was exactly the plan Mystra wanted to avoid in Prince of Lies circa 1989.
In the Pavilion of Cynosure when Mask was attempting to induce a chastised Mystra into an intrigue against Cyric the following exchange took place.
Mask- “Its time we joined forces, you and I. An alliance could aid us both.”
Mystra’s reply
“You get to foster intrigue,” said Mystra “and perhaps even gain some of Cyric’s titles if he happens to fall. I get condemned for stopping a mad gone from destroying the world. No thanks.”
It should be noted that any member of the Pantheon could monitor the Pavilion.
Maybe a certain Mistress of Night with a longstanding axe to grind against any incumbent of the goddess of magic chair was listening in?
A few decades later Mystra is slain and the patsy Cyric takes all the heat. Perhaps Shar and Mask are one and the same.
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Edited by - Erdrick Stormedge on 19 Jan 2011 18:40:23 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 19:26:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Aye, save Shar has plotted to destroy Mystra, her mother, and all of Creation since the beginning of time on Faerun.
quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
Some plans must be classic.
...
Maybe a certain Mistress of Night with a longstanding axe to grind against any incumbent of the goddess of magic chair was listening in?
A few decades later Mystra is slain and the patsy Cyric takes all the heat. Perhaps Shar and Mask are one and the same.
Well sure--when you hear a good idea, why not use it?
Maybe Shar has been planning this all along, and she was just waiting all that time for a weak-willed deity with enough power . . . like Cyric.
And maybe Mask (whose nature we don't fully understand, but it seems clear he had at least some autonomy) was trying to warn Mystra subtly about what was to come?
Hmm . . .
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 20:08:37
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My alternate take on it is that it was all a plot by Mask -- by engineering the death of one deity, the imprisonment of another, and the depowering of a third, he proved worthy of and reclaimed the portfolio of Intrigue.
Of course, my alternate version results in Shar taking a hit, too, and plays out differently after the death of Mystra, with the eventual result of a new deity of magic and less of her Chosen. Since the one of the official objectives of the Sellplague was to deal with perceptions that Mystra was too good and she had too many Chosen, I came up with a way to get a new Mystra, at the cost of some of her Chosen. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Jan 2011 20:09:11 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 22:29:31
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| Mystra might have left her essences in her remaining Chosen (something she already did during the ToT) before she died, or before she orchestrated her 'death.' |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 22:53:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Mystra might have left her essences in her remaining Chosen (something she already did during the ToT) before she died, or before she orchestrated her 'death.'
My idea was to have Mystra replaced without the chaos seen in the canon version of her destruction. The ascension of a new Mystra (with perhaps a slightly different name, like when the Realms lost Mystryl) would indeed involve some of her Chosen voluntarily sacrificing the divine essence they contained, but there was more to it than that.
I tried to write it up as an article, but I got stumped on how to go from one part of the narrative to the next. I may just present the entire idea here, as more of an outline. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 23:04:04
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| Amarune's involvement in EMD makes me wonder if she'd be the 'vessel' of the next goddess of magic, much like Midnight had been... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 23:05:04
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And btw, Wooly, I'd be interested to read that article. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 23:24:50
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| I'd be interested in reading that too Wooly. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 00:40:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My idea was to have Mystra replaced without the chaos seen in the canon version of her destruction. The ascension of a new Mystra (with perhaps a slightly different name, like when the Realms lost Mystryl) would indeed involve some of her Chosen voluntarily sacrificing the divine essence they contained, but there was more to it than that.
Wooly's been peaking at my notes, as this is somewhat similar to something I mentioned in Ed's scroll not to long ago.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 13:28:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I tried to write it up as an article, but I got stumped on how to go from one part of the narrative to the next. I may just present the entire idea here, as more of an outline.
Maybe as fragments of a lost scroll/diary?  Then the suggestions from other scribes can help filling the gaps. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 14:22:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Arioch
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I tried to write it up as an article, but I got stumped on how to go from one part of the narrative to the next. I may just present the entire idea here, as more of an outline.
Maybe as fragments of a lost scroll/diary? Then the suggestions from other scribes can help filling the gaps.
Difficult... The whole thing starts with the gods, and some of the events would not be seen by mortal eyes. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 15:28:14
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| Mystra let Cyric and Shar succeed so that she could "reboot" herself---again! |
Every beginning has an end. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 15:32:52
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| Maybe she installed some new drivers? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 16:09:44
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| Or got infected by virus? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 17:34:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Or got infected by virus?
Indeed. Far better, as Scribe deBie states, to draw conclusions from what is; and go forth, than to 'stompeth ones feet', and cast anew. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 17:46:54
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| She must have failed to consider the possibility of reaching out to Earth and borrow Sage's or Wooly's Anti-Virus software. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 18:56:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
She must have failed to consider the possibility of reaching out to Earth and borrow Sage's or Wooly's Anti-Virus software.
I just use Symantec. Lurue only knows what SageOS uses. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 20:09:54
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| Ah, perhaps the virus that infected Mystra had somehow become impervious to all sorts of anti-virus program, and that a reformat and an upgrade were necessitated. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 21 Jan 2011 20:10:32 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 00:50:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
She must have failed to consider the possibility of reaching out to Earth and borrow Sage's or Wooly's Anti-Virus software.
I just use Symantec. Lurue only knows what SageOS uses.
I'm working on SageGuard. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 09:09:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arioch
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I tried to write it up as an article, but I got stumped on how to go from one part of the narrative to the next. I may just present the entire idea here, as more of an outline.
Maybe as fragments of a lost scroll/diary? Then the suggestions from other scribes can help filling the gaps.
Difficult... The whole thing starts with the gods, and some of the events would not be seen by mortal eyes.
Well, not to insist (I'm just overly curious about what you came up to) but.. there are a lot of literary artifices to justify a diary of this kind (Of course if this idea appeals you)
I think it can be very interesting to separate the SpellPlague chaos from Mystra's death/substituion! A DM can have intriguing alternatives for his own campaign. I mean: one can use the chaos not as a direct consequence of the goddess death or not use it at all!
@Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
And maybe Mask (whose nature we don't fully understand, but it seems clear he had at least some autonomy) was trying to warn Mystra subtly about what was to come?
Warning about the danger for her or about something else?
The idea of a Mystra that sacrifice herself to destroy the Shadow Weave as well as some incoming doom linked to it is intriguing to me... (But up to now, I wasn't able to came up to a good developement)
If the chaos is not linked "directly" to her death (or never happened as Wooly propose), it could be more plausible that she feigned it.
As for her reasons to feign a demise... well I think there are plenty.
(Just to follow some of the ideas in this thread [sorry: I can't restrain myself from proposing new spellplague scenarios  ]: maybe the shadow weave was starting to corrupt the weave (as well as the goddess herself) in an irredeemable way... Maybe now Mystra is hidden somewhere, waiting... : the weave is not reforming simply because the goddess is not dead...(even if Shar claims otherwise))
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 21:06:50
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| The SW could not have corrupted the W all by itself. Shar must have had a hand on it----again. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 08:50:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The SW could not have corrupted the W all by itself. Shar must have had a hand on it----again.
Well yes and no: I've always found this quote from "Faiths and Pantheons" (p. 50) very interesting:
"It is Mystra's aim to eventually subsume the Shadow Weave into her own portfolio, even if that means sacrificing her last remaining vestiges of humanity and inherent goodness and absorbing more of the darkness that is Shar."
...so, as I have proposed some time ago, the chain of event that brought to the SpellPlague may have started from Mystra as well!
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 08:53:15
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| Interesting, indeed. But who knows, along the way, she changed her mind? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 09:15:10
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I prefer to think she (Mystra) simply "changed" (not only her mind) !
Maybe she and Shar fused togheter as one entity... The two essence conflicting and Shar's former self is currently winning. To put it from another point of view: Mystra is currently believing to be Shar.
Things could change if the goddess of magic will "remember" her true identity (maybe helped by the essence of Mystra still around)... Well these are just ideas still in development for the end of my current campaign!
(To shape a world with a little more darker deity of magic, and Mask as god of darkness!) |
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The Genesis of Shar’s plot to slay Mystra.
