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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 05:03:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Spoiler alert.
End of Gauntlgrym, Bruenor wakes up in the forest with Catti and Regis and...Wulfgar.
Wulfgar should have gone to Warrior's Rest, and Bruenor should have gone to Dwarfholme(that is the plane, right? Been a while since I read up on that). But they didn't. And I want to know how Meilikki's getting ahold of other(more powerful) god's faithful. Bruenor more so than Wulfgar, really. Wulfgar was a good faithful; praised Tempus, fought well and often. But Bruenor is a dwarven king. He's the dwarf who rediscovered Mithril Hall and saved Gauntlgrym. And Meilikki managed to snatch him from Moradin's halls? What?
Maybe she's grabbing them so she can bring them back in 1485 when Drizzt is at his lowest?  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 05:08:20
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| I'll tell you what. That wouldn't get me to quit the realms, but it would get me to quit Mr. Salvatore's books. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 05:28:22
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Well I haven't read that book yet......
but if he comes back, that dwarf will become a god in his own right.
Bruenor Battlehammer
holy symbol: A frosty mug of beer
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 08:28:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Spoiler alert.
End of Gauntlgrym, Bruenor wakes up in the forest with Catti and Regis and...Wulfgar.
Wulfgar should have gone to Warrior's Rest, and Bruenor should have gone to Dwarfholme(that is the plane, right? Been a while since I read up on that). But they didn't. And I want to know how Meilikki's getting ahold of other(more powerful) god's faithful. Bruenor more so than Wulfgar, really. Wulfgar was a good faithful; praised Tempus, fought well and often. But Bruenor is a dwarven king. He's the dwarf who rediscovered Mithril Hall and saved Gauntlgrym. And Meilikki managed to snatch him from Moradin's halls? What?
Maybe she's grabbing them so she can bring them back in 1485 when Drizzt is at his lowest?
Whaat? That makes no sense. I agree wholeheartedly with Chosen of Asmodeus. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 09:28:25
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I have a big problem with the main theory regarding what's happening; that its being done as a favor to Drizzt.
First off, from an inuniverse perspective, Bruenor is a much more important person than Drizzt. Drizzt is his sidekick(hypercompetent as he may be), not the other way around. And really, when you think about it, nothing Drizzt has ever done has been in service to Meilikki. He's lead a remarkable life, to be sure, but every thing he's done has been in a quest for redemption to escape his heritage, for the sake of his friends, or for the sake of adventure itself. Bruenor praised Moradin with every other breath, and did a lot in service to his people. Every time Wulfgar threw his hammer, he did it for Tempus, and again, he did a lot for his people. These are high value souls we're talking about, and greater gods are just handing them over to a relatively minor goddess so she can do a solid for Drizzt? I'm just not buying it.
Now, this is all speculation and I'm fairly cynical. It could be this is building up to something good and well thought out with a reasonable explaination and not for the purpose of bringing back characters who should stay dead. I'm putting a wait and see sticker on it. But still, warning lights are going off. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 10:04:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
It's based mostly on the original source description both in the novel and the weapon stats (my version is from the Encyclopedia Magicka, vol. 4) where it stated that Aegis-Fang was created SPECIFICALLY for Wulfgar by Bruenor, using a very difficult ritual to the dawrven gods that named Wulfgar as the wielder. That is why it ONLY ever worked for him.
That is basically the same thing as what RAS himself wrote in his Wulfgar profile in Hall of Heroes (1989):
- Bruenor crafted Aegis-fang especially for Wulfgar
- Its magic was tuned perfectly to Wulf alone
- +5 & double-damage for Wulf, and unerringly reappears in Wulf's hand and only Wulf's hand
- for anyone else: +3, but loses double-damage and will not reappear when thrown
Also, the young barbarian Kierstaad threw the hammer at Errtu in Passage to Dawn (P4:C27), fully expecting it to reappear in his hands, but it did not. Wulf realized that the hammer was near and it reappeared in his hands, instead, completely surprising the hell out of Kierstaad.
Recall that Wulf "died" in The Legacy in 1358 DR, and then the hammer was put on display in Mithral Hall; and then in 1359 Bruenor & Co. moved back to Icewind Dale, with the hammer in tow, until Kierstaad retrieved the weapon in 1364 DR in Passage to Dawn. It would appear that the weapon had been set aside for six years as a mere showpiece artifact: either no one had been able to successfully wield it and utilize all of its abilities, or no one had been allowed to even try. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 10:17:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
And I want to know how Meilikki's getting ahold of other(more powerful) god's faithful. Bruenor more so than Wulfgar, really. Wulfgar was a good faithful; praised Tempus, fought well and often. But Bruenor is a dwarven king. He's the dwarf who rediscovered Mithril Hall and saved Gauntlgrym. And Meilikki managed to snatch him from Moradin's halls? What?
I think "What?" is exactly the reaction you're supposed to have. Even Bruenor himself was scratching his hairy head at that, there at the end.
It's yet another one of Bob's infamous cliffhanger endings. You're not supposed to have all the answers--you're just supposed to be dazzled by the surprise, and be slavering for the next book!
At any rate, since Iruladoon is a place without time (per Roundabout the ranger), where time has no meaning (per Regis), then if Mielikki's hijacking of a few souls does constitute some sort of infringement of other gods' prerogatives, it probably is only a minor one. What's a century to ghosts with no concept of time, anymore? What's a century to their respective gods, even?
She probably asked "Mother, may I?" beforehand, anyway. So it's all good. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Tasker Daze
Seeker
84 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 11:16:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Spoiler alert.
End of Gauntlgrym, Bruenor wakes up in the forest with Catti and Regis and...Wulfgar.
Wulfgar should have gone to Warrior's Rest, and Bruenor should have gone to Dwarfholme(that is the plane, right? Been a while since I read up on that). But they didn't. And I want to know how Meilikki's getting ahold of other(more powerful) god's faithful. Bruenor more so than Wulfgar, really. Wulfgar was a good faithful; praised Tempus, fought well and often. But Bruenor is a dwarven king. He's the dwarf who rediscovered Mithril Hall and saved Gauntlgrym. And Meilikki managed to snatch him from Moradin's halls? What?
Really? Okay, so yeah, there's a certain justice to all the compainons sharing the same afterlife. But there's also a certain justice to going to your patron deity. And that's what happens to everyone else in the Realms.
Someone else was saying that Drizzt now had a medallion or something he could use to summon a unicorn. What he needs is a figurine of wondrous power that summons a shark -- so he can do literally what he's done figuratively!
Someone once suggested RAS is just pushing WotC to see how far he can go before they stop demanding Drizzit books. I wonder if that's true? |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 12:34:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
They've taken all the fun out of the game.....
Thanks for the tip. I can't play 4E anymore, it's no longer fun...
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Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 14:52:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Spoiler alert.
End of Gauntlgrym, Bruenor wakes up in the forest with Catti and Regis and...Wulfgar.
Wulfgar should have gone to Warrior's Rest, and Bruenor should have gone to Dwarfholme(that is the plane, right? Been a while since I read up on that). But they didn't. And I want to know how Meilikki's getting ahold of other(more powerful) god's faithful. Bruenor more so than Wulfgar, really. Wulfgar was a good faithful; praised Tempus, fought well and often. But Bruenor is a dwarven king. He's the dwarf who rediscovered Mithril Hall and saved Gauntlgrym. And Meilikki managed to snatch him from Moradin's halls? What?
Maybe Kelemvor is slacking off again? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36823 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 19:09:23
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| Okay, let's not go any further down Bash4E Avenue, please. That road is already distressingly well-traveled. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 19:22:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Spoiler alert.
End of Gauntlgrym, Bruenor wakes up in the forest with Catti and Regis and...Wulfgar.
Wulfgar should have gone to Warrior's Rest, and Bruenor should have gone to Dwarfholme(that is the plane, right? Been a while since I read up on that). But they didn't. And I want to know how Meilikki's getting ahold of other(more powerful) god's faithful. Bruenor more so than Wulfgar, really. Wulfgar was a good faithful; praised Tempus, fought well and often. But Bruenor is a dwarven king. He's the dwarf who rediscovered Mithril Hall and saved Gauntlgrym. And Meilikki managed to snatch him from Moradin's halls? What?
Maybe Kelemvor is slacking off again?
It is distressing how easy that explaination is to accept. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36823 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 21:47:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Sorry, Wooly, just my two Zhents- not a "bash" so much as a "this is how it felt after playing" rant.
No worries. I was just concerned that other folks would see a couple of comments that were against 4E, and happily start up yet another chapter of the edition wars.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31796 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 00:24:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Spoiler alert.
End of Gauntlgrym, Bruenor wakes up in the forest with Catti and Regis and...Wulfgar.
Wulfgar should have gone to Warrior's Rest, and Bruenor should have gone to Dwarfholme(that is the plane, right? Been a while since I read up on that). But they didn't. And I want to know how Meilikki's getting ahold of other(more powerful) god's faithful. Bruenor more so than Wulfgar, really. Wulfgar was a good faithful; praised Tempus, fought well and often. But Bruenor is a dwarven king. He's the dwarf who rediscovered Mithril Hall and saved Gauntlgrym. And Meilikki managed to snatch him from Moradin's halls? What?
Maybe Kelemvor is slacking off again?
It is distressing how easy that explaination is to accept.
Or, maybe, he's still not all that comfortable with the role. At least that plays on prior Realmslore. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 01:42:50
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| I do admit I am curious as to the truth of it, so Salvatore's done right as far as getting me interested for the next one. Just sceptical about the pay-off. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 03:20:21
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I wonder if he did it deliberatly so that he could bring them back later.
you know, not happy about having to off them in the first place. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 05:36:53
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| There's speculation about that but most of his diehard fans doubt it; supposedly he's against bringing characters back from the dead(he didn't want to bring Wulfgar back the first time). But, that was many years ago and he may have had a change of heart since then. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 11:53:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
And lest we forget, this is the SAME author who killed Chewbacca..... No coming that one from THAT one!!
Whaaaaaaattt? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 12:01:05
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
And lest we forget, this is the SAME author who killed Chewbacca..... No coming that one from THAT one!!
Whaaaaaaattt?
Never heard that line before but I know what you mean. I've met my share of Star Wars fans who hate Salvatore and the only thing they know him for is the aforementioned killing off of Chewie! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 23:40:50
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| Yup. I actually read the book it was in- Vector Prime. I had no idea when I started reading it that that was going to happen. I had to put the book down after it got to that part (near the end, but still...) and I could not finish it. I almost cried, and was so mad I wanted to stop reading his books altogether! I later found out he had even gotten hate mail and even a few death threats from die-hard fans for that one. Ouch. I got over it, though, as I did the same thing to Spidey in my own created character comic series.... (In the link in my siggie- under "Red-Back". Check them out!) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 01:23:31
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I read about that on Yahoo....
but yeah pissed me off, got over it.
nobody lives forever...... not even in ficition, though they do come back from time to time.....but not always |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 02:33:46
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| Of course, killing Chewie wasn't his choice, that was something he was told to do. Killing Wulfgar, on the other hand, was his choice. Bringing him back wasn't. T |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 02:48:20
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| He didn't kill Chewie....he just told the story about the event.:-) |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 04:28:03
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| Which is basically the same thing, in fiction. You write it, you killed him/her. (I've done it to four characters myself so far- Spidey, and three of my own. Though technically, only one of those others STAYED dead- a vampire who was stomped into oblivion and then burned to ash by his own master. The other two- my drow bard and my comic character- were both brought back either by magic or by CPR, respectively.) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 04:31:07
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I'm reminded of the comic book where the Joker kills Robin. The writer at the time wore a batman logo on his coat and went into a coffee shop for breakfast; the guy taking his order asked him about it and he explained what he did for a living. The guy pointed at him and called to the whole place, "Hey everybody, this is the guy who killed Robin!"
What makes that hilarious was that it was decided via fan vote. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 04:42:09
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and that Robin stayed dead.
he was no Nightwing just like Nightwing is no Batman |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 04:47:57
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| I remember that issue- never read it, but I've heard much about it. I've also seen a few of the pages fronm it, and man it's a brutal story. My "Death of Spider-Man" issue for my comic tale was similarly brutal. He was shot in an alley at point-blank range- a "routine" drug dealer bust while teaching his teen-aged son the hero-ing ropes that went very sour when the dealer threatened his family (his ID is known [again] in my series) and he attempted to intimidate the man with a threat of his own- and ended up on the wrong end of three bullets to the heart. While the son was busy dealing with the goons. He saw it, and promptly went berserk. Not gonna say what happened after, but let's just say it involved a lot of cops, some paybacks from junior, and a nasty trial in the next two issues. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Wulfgar question -GUANTLGRYM SPOILER
