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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 22:39:25
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So, I'm reading the back of Swordmage by Rich Baker and it speaks of Aesperus as a fearsome necromancer who ruled over the Moonsea hundreds of years ago, and survives as an undead lich who commands the dead of the barrowfields as his slaves.
In Moonsea, he was a wizard who fell in a hole during an attack and got buried with the dead, which caused him to rise as a lich.
So ... um?
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 16:28:39
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| You might want to ask Rich Baker. Interesting question, another lich/necromancer in the Moonsea that I didn't know about. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 01:13:25
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| Just remember, that you'll need to ask over on the Wizards boards. Rich has noted in the past, that he simply doesn't have the time, any more, to devote to answering questions across multiple sites -- including Candlekeep, which is why his scroll here has largely fallen silent. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 03:36:20
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| Those thread were closed on the WotC site due to inactivity. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2011 : 14:29:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
You might want to ask Rich Baker. Interesting question, another lich/necromancer in the Moonsea that I didn't know about.
Yeah, if you're in the moonsea and you suddenly trip on something ... Look down, it's probably a lich. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 14:06:03
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| Information about Aesperus can be found in the 2E Moonsea product I believe (he wasn't originally created for Rich's novels). |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 15:28:30
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| Alistair, that's where I picked up that he wasn't originally a necromancer who ruled over the moonsea. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 15:39:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
Alistair, that's where I picked up that he wasn't originally a necromancer who ruled over the moonsea.
 I just re-read your original post. I see the mistake I made  . |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 17:42:08
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| So, we don't have an easy way to check with Baker as to what retconning he was doing, I guess. |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 21:13:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
So, I'm reading the back of Swordmage by Rich Baker and it speaks of Aesperus as a fearsome necromancer who ruled over the Moonsea hundreds of years ago, and survives as an undead lich who commands the dead of the barrowfields as his slaves.
In Moonsea, he was a wizard who fell in a hole during an attack and got buried with the dead, which caused him to rise as a lich.
So ... um?
There 'tis no discrepancy, or 'ret-con' as ye put it. Why dost thou think that these two accounts are different? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 22:19:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
So, I'm reading the back of Swordmage by Rich Baker and it speaks of Aesperus as a fearsome necromancer who ruled over the Moonsea hundreds of years ago, and survives as an undead lich who commands the dead of the barrowfields as his slaves.
In Moonsea, he was a wizard who fell in a hole during an attack and got buried with the dead, which caused him to rise as a lich.
So ... um?
There 'tis no discrepancy, or 'ret-con' as ye put it. Why dost thou think that these two accounts are different?
The fact that it sounds like two different liches, and yet they have the same name, makes it seem like a ret-con. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 22:45:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
So, I'm reading the back of Swordmage by Rich Baker and it speaks of Aesperus as a fearsome necromancer who ruled over the Moonsea hundreds of years ago, and survives as an undead lich who commands the dead of the barrowfields as his slaves.
In Moonsea, he was a wizard who fell in a hole during an attack and got buried with the dead, which caused him to rise as a lich.
So ... um?
There 'tis no discrepancy, or 'ret-con' as ye put it. Why dost thou think that these two accounts are different?
The fact that it sounds like two different liches, and yet they have the same name, makes it seem like a ret-con.
Perhaps.
Though the Lich-Under-Hulburg rose to great power during the Wailing Years. By the Year of the Ageless One, Aespurus was renowned as lord of necromancy, with legions from the barrowfields at his command.
Sage Baker's tale of the Lich continues thence... |
Edited by - Erdrick Stormedge on 21 Jan 2011 22:46:42 |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 23:51:44
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| What year is the year of the ageless ones? Are we saying aesperus raised his army after 1357 and it was put down before 1400s? |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 00:35:49
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| 1479... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 00:50:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
What year is the year of the ageless ones? Are we saying aesperus raised his army after 1357 and it was put down before 1400s?
You mean 1479 DR? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 15:00:28
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| My mistake. I meant to ask what years the wailing years encompassed. |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 22:51:56
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The Wailing Years begin with the Year of Blue Fire, and end with the Year of the Ageless one.
No 'ret-con' has ocurred.
2e material was obviously mined for 4e content. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 00:06:35
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I dunno... No prior indication that the guy had any kind of prominence, and then suddenly he had noteworthy past prominence... It sounds like a retcon to me.
I think if the guy had been more prominent originally, we'd've heard about it. And it's not like we've not had retcons before. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 00:15:34
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I suppose it does fit most definitions of "retcon," but hopefully Realms designers and authors will continue to be able to take small or undeveloped details from older lore and expand upon them, which is kind of what this seems like to me.
Cheers,
Christopher
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 05:18:46
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| The "Wailing Years" only lasted about 10 years. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 15:57:24
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Well, I'm not even complaining if it is a retcon. Especially, since the Moonsea supplement has plenty of the marks fo the whole unreliable narrator concept to it. I'm just trying to figure out exactly what happened. In Moonsea he was a nobody who became a lich and was building an army of undead. If he did all his noteworthy necromancing and built his reputation in the lag time between 3e and 4e, then it makes perfect sense.
If, on the other hand, according to 4e he was always a super amazing necromancer who once ruled all of the Moonsea (pre 1350), I need to know for an adventure I'm running in 1350. that's all I'm saying. :) |
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Aesperus
