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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 02:59:46
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Noted, you infernal tyrant, you. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 12:59:51
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Oh, that's not nice. I prefer to think of myself as an extraplanar peacebringer bringing order to the multiverse.
Even if I have to choke the hell out of it. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 23:14:02
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Methinks thou protest to excess, Oh Master Chosen of Asmode...us. 
If you go back an re-read the passage, Barrabus watches Dahlia fight some minor Netherese warrior and quickly surmises that he does not wish to fight the elf straight up, because of her strange weapon. He then gets cocky and determines that he will not have to, for he believes that he will be able to take her by surprise, instead. Barrabus goes chasing after her through the Neverwinter Wood, and assumes that he can kill her in one move. But he turns out to be wrong, and she is waiting for him. Scrambling to recover, he throws his poisoned dagger at her, and they separate, to begin circling each other.
It's at this point, during a brief break in the action, that Barrabus takes a moment to scan the seductive elf up and down, and he notices just how hot she really is. He is drawn to her appearance, and he has to focus in order to rise above the distraction.
After some scant witty repartee, we are then told that Barrabus has blocked out all of her distractions, and they resume fighting.
Some thoughts on the scene follow:
- Apparently, Barrabus's cockiness prevents him from noticing Dahlia's sexy appearance initially. He observes her fighting ability and bizarre weapon from a distance, but he is oblivious to her beauty and provocative looks. It is only when they get up close and personal that he finally sees what she wants men to see.
- It's easy to interpret the leering moment as taking longer than just a moment, but I don't think that we were meant to. It's a just a quick break in the action, while the combatants are both regathering their wits.
- As a fighter, Barrabus is probably trying to notice everything about the elf which she might use as a weapon. Her sex appeal is one such thing, and it's just as likely to catch the eye as a flash of shiny bling that might be a blade hilt.
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"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2011 : 17:05:56
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Ok. Admittedly I didn't give the fight scene as detailed a read as I should have because at this point reading Salvatore's fight scenes is better than warm milk or counting sheep to me, so the pause and circling offer a space for that to come into effect.
I still refuse to believe that any woman is so hot as to allow any serious advantage in a life or death fight against anyone who knows what they're doing. The only reason eyes should linger on exposed chest or thigh would be to target them; because that's all showing skin does. It creates a nice target to sink a blade into.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just so desensitized by our modern society and all the bare flesh it has to offer that I can't understand how someone can be so fixated on it as to ignore a flail/staff/spear/whatever Dahlia's ridiculous weapon happens to be at any given moment hurtling towards their skull. That is a much more interesting sight to focus on, in my opinion. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2011 : 23:13:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Ok. Admittedly I didn't give the [...] scene as detailed a read as I should have because at this point reading Salvatore's [...] scenes is better than warm milk or counting sheep to me[...].
Don't take this personally, but sometimes I get the impression that this is how lots of people read most of Salvatore's books. And so, they similarly miss the point. 
quote:
I still refuse to believe that any woman is so hot as to allow any serious advantage in a life or death fight against anyone who knows what they're doing.
Granted.
Perhaps Dahlia also carries an item of sexual distraction, in addition to her provocative dress? We know she carries the enchanted staff, and the brooch which protects her against undead. Maybe she carries another item of special benefit to her in this way, which she doesn't make as conspicuous as the earrings? Hells, maybe the earrings do double duty, in this capacity?
(EDIT: After initially posting this, I remembered that Dahlia does indeed possess something of this sort. Her magical, shapeshifting, woad-plant head tattoos are said to be able to mesmerize helplessly a man or woman with lust.)
quote:
[...] I can't understand how someone can be so fixated on it as to ignore a flail/staff/spear/whatever Dahlia's ridiculous weapon happens to be at any given moment hurtling towards their skull.
But were we ever told that that actually happened?
Certainly Barrabus didn't ignore a weapon hurtling at him in order to notice her cleavage. He hurtled a weapon at her, and only then did he notice her cleavage!
Perhaps Dahlia shows off her stuff in order to put folks back on their heels, and so, it's not that they ignore the weapon enroute to its destination, but rather, they fail to ever notice?
More likely, her sex appeal is used to lull people into longterm erotic/romantic-erotic relationships, and in a forseeable vulnerable state under such conditions, the weapon only comes into play against her lovers by surprise, and they are caught in a state of shock. Think of a black widow who wears a lacy little number to get her lover in bed, but when he's asleep, she busts out the BFG, or a big friggin' knife, or whatever.
Some people are willing to play with a black widow, even though they know there's a gun or a knife somewhere in the vicinity. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 06 Feb 2011 12:48:11 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 04:34:14
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| I've not read the book in question, so I've no commentary to add on it. But I'll add something to BEAST's post: A woman using her sex appeal could use it for other reasons than trying to lull people into a relationship, feigned or real. Sex appeal can be a huge distraction -- perhaps not in combat, but in many other ways. The sex appeal card could be played to distract from something the woman is doing, be it political, economic, or something else. If you're busy ogling a girl's cleavage, you're less likely to notice her politically outmanuevering you, or shorting you in an economic deal, or even stealing from you. Sex appeal could also be used to distract from other things about the woman -- perhaps covering up perceived character flaws, and/or causing her intelligence to be underestimated until it's too late. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 07:52:47
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Yeah, I'll go with Wooly and BEAST on that. As a woman myself (I know- shocking, isn't it? :P ) I have personally used sex-appeal on at least one occasion that led to a serious distraction for a guy. (In this case, a particular guy I was very into was so distracted by low-cut cleavage at eye-level as I sat on the arm of his seat while watching him in a chess game that he, um, sort of lost the game. Unintentional on my part, but it certainly DOES work, lol!) And I've done it in stories, too. One tale I've done had a young fellow (my drow bard, actually) so distracted by a "Gypsy" dancer's amorous advances after he had been "admiring" her performance (and cleavage and other "assets"- she had nothing on under her skirt and kicked up obscenely high during her dance) that he failed to notice that her hand on his leg was heading for his money-pouch until it was nearly too late. So yes, it certainly CAN happen. Just like there are women in RL that use their sex-appeal to get what they want from men all the time. Granted, I'm not entirely sure how this would affect a guy during a fight, but think of the scene in Mask of Zorro where he and Elena are fencing, and he keeps getting distracted by her and vice-versa all through the fight. Never mind that there is already some sexual attraction going on by that point- they simply can't help having a reaction to each other.
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The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 13:10:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've not read the book in question, so I've no commentary to add on it. But I'll add something to BEAST's post: A woman using her sex appeal could use it for other reasons than trying to lull people into a relationship, feigned or real. Sex appeal can be a huge distraction -- perhaps not in combat, but in many other ways. The sex appeal card could be played to distract from something the woman is doing, be it political, economic, or something else. If you're busy ogling a girl's cleavage, you're less likely to notice her politically outmanuevering you, or shorting you in an economic deal, or even stealing from you. Sex appeal could also be used to distract from other things about the woman -- perhaps covering up perceived character flaws, and/or causing her intelligence to be underestimated until it's too late.
Case in point:
- Lady Dahlia is said to have used her sex appeal to inspire other members of the Thayan aristocracy with lust, awe, or jealousy (Gauntlgrym, P1:C1:p25).
- And Lady Sylora declares that Dahlia had coaxed all of her victims into vulnerable positions before killing them (Gaunt., P1:C1:p31).
It appears that Dahlia had ulterior motives with all of her named lovers/victims:
- Lady Cahdamine - Dahlia might've assumed her mentor's rank and status in the Thayan court by offing her.
- Dor'crae - Dahlia rolled around in the hay with her vampire boy toy, but only after demanding that he provide her intel on the lingering magic of the ruined Luskan Hosttower. The promising mission that arose from this intel earned Szass Tam's intervention against Sylora's desire for immediate vengeance against Dahlia.
- Themerelis - Sylora sent this human barbarian to spy on Dahlia and her pending mission to Luskan, and Sylora figured that the way he was able to get so much of said info was because Dahlia had seduced him, just to enrage Sylora! For all we know, Dahlia might've used Themerelis as a double-spy, turning him against Sylora.
- Borlann the Crow - Dahlia thought she looked better in his cloak of transformation than he did, anyway!
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"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 20:37:39
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| *puts his hands up in surrender* Alright. I know better than to engage an enemy with such overwhelming numbers. I surrender. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2011 : 18:45:35
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| To be fair to Chosen he does have a point in that it's not so much what Dahlia does as how it's decribed. I haven't read the seen thoroughly or recently enough to feel in a position to comment. But Dahlia's not the first character to do this. In fact, Durham Red, (those of you who are CBT regulars will be familiar with my avatar,) was notorious for launching assaults half-naked. It wasn't done to tittilate (no doubt it had that side-effect for the audience) but because her opponents would need time to recognise a half-naked woman as a threat and react. It very rarely brough her more than half a second but that was usually enough to get the drop on her targets. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2011 : 22:23:53
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| Not to mention I wasn't overly taken with the fact that the first openly bisexual character in RAS's books was a rape-victim, a serial killer, and a rapist herself. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that homosexuals and bisexuals should be potrayed in a universally positive light; they're people just like anyone else and are capable of the same range of moral fiber, but it still left something of a sour taste in my mouth, reeking of unfortunate implications. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Neverwinter Book 1: Gauntlgrym *Spoilers*
