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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 23:04:52
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Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 01 Apr 2011 23:33:38
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 23:13:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
You know how you can have a murder of crows to describe a group of crows?
What would be the term for a group of Phaerimm?
I believ'est that the Earth-Sage Troy of the Denning described the organization of phaerimm in his tri-librum "Return of the Arch-Wizards". Alas, nae hav'est I that scroll available to me at present. Mayhaps I shall summon one from the aether... but first, I must rest for eight full hours.
Until Swords meet, Scribe Miscel! |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 23:19:36
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A phalanx of phaerimm?
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 23:42:45
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Since murder is a vulgar word, it was acceptable for the gentler sex to instead use the term "unkindness" of crows.
Parliament or senate of owls, gang or mugging of butterflies, etc. It makes me wonder if the correct terminology would be axes of dwarves, a gearwheel of gnomes, doublets of halflings, a chime of faeries?
A phalanx of phaerimm sounds good. As would a drain, or a hunger, or a paradox of phaerimm. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
732 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 23:46:55
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I'm quite certain that it's not the appropriate term, but a "murder" of Phaerimm seems strangely appropriate. They certainly do what it says on the box  .
Is there any particular reason why Phaerimms should have a specific designation (aboleths, beholders, mind flayers, etc. don't, I thinką-)? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 00:01:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
I'm quite certain that it's not the appropriate term, but a "murder" of Phaerimm seems strangely appropriate. They certainly do what it says on the box .
I second that.
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
Is there any particular reason why Phaerimms should have a specific designation (aboleths, beholders, mind flayers, etc. don't, I thinką-)?
A flux of aboleths sounds apt. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 00:09:37
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In terms of the official, 2e sources identify more than one phaerimm as just "phaerimm". Whereas in 3e references, "phaerimms" seems to be a common occurrence.
...
As for an actual term for a group of phaerimm... how about an "Devastation" of Phaerimm? This plays on their ambition to devastate/eradicate all life in Faerūn.   
Seriously, though, I'd say either "Clan" or "Tribe" would be the most appropriate, given the social outlook of one phaerimm to another. And it also reflects the drive for individual phaerimm to compete with their fellows, in an attempt to reach the top of their social hierarchy. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 00:11:11
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quote:
dennis
A flux of aboleths sounds apt.
Brilliant.
Thauramarth - I'll go with a sovereign of aboleths, a float of beholders, and a tangle of mind flayers (or a cerebrethren of illithids, if you want to sound more technical). Change the above to a scatter of halflings. Maybe add a range of elves. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 04 Jan 2011 00:19:36 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 00:20:28
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The book to read about collective nouns (the coining of which was formalized into the game of venery in the late middle ages if I'm remembering correctly) is James Lipton's fascinating An Exaltation of Larks.
The book and game both are a lot of fun. We're kind of playing it in this scroll already. A deadliness of dragons, a melee of orcs, an argument of scribes, an enfilade of archers...
Cheers,
Christopher |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
Edited by - Christopher_Rowe on 04 Jan 2011 00:21:17 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 00:22:44
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| A fleet of nighthaunts... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 00:29:45
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Oh, hey, check this out! I was thinking of popping down to the shiny new 2011 "Ask Ed" scroll to see if there was a Realmsian equivalent of the Game of Venery. I did a search first though and in 2004 he said that he wrote a terms of venery article for the Realms that was never published. Has that seen the light of day since, I wonder?
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 00:38:23
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Setting aside the religious connotations of the term, and I like the sound of a "Phaerimm Sodality" or, instead, a "sodality" of phaerimm.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 04 Jan 2011 00:39:47 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 00:39:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
Oh, hey, check this out! I was thinking of popping down to the shiny new 2011 "Ask Ed" scroll to see if there was a Realmsian equivalent of the Game of Venery. I did a search first though and in 2004 he said that he wrote a terms of venery article for the Realms that was never published. Has that seen the light of day since, I wonder?
It doesn't immediately ring any bells. Though you might try asking Ed anyway. He might be able to provide further elaboration on the subject. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 00:50:55
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Setting aside the religious connotations of the term, and I like the sound of a "Phaerimm Sodality" or, instead, a "sodality" of phaerimm.
It doesn't sound that 'right' to me. Pope Benedict might send you a writ decrying your attempt to "borrow" a term (that seems to have been engraved in the Roman Catholic laity) to describe a group of hideous, evil creatures. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 00:59:32
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
A flux of aboleths sounds apt.
I'm rather fond of an Addendum of Aboleths.....since that whole mess feels like it was just an aftermarket add on to my Realms
I kinda like a fubar of Phaeriim.......... or maybe a bit more seriously a frenzy? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 01:14:53
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Setting aside the religious connotations of the term, and I like the sound of a "Phaerimm Sodality" or, instead, a "sodality" of phaerimm.
It doesn't sound that 'right' to me. Pope Benedict might send you a writ decrying your attempt to "borrow" a term (that seems to have been engraved in the Roman Catholic laity) to describe a group of hideous, evil creatures.
Well, sodality can also mean just "fellowship." And while it's probably a stretch to say that phaerimm engage in the kind of social unit that we'd usually assume to be a fellowship, it has been noted in the Realmslore that they do prefer being with others of their own kind, and working toward common goals. Which, as I loosely see it, is pretty much what a fellowship is anyway. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 02:11:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Setting aside the religious connotations of the term, and I like the sound of a "Phaerimm Sodality" or, instead, a "sodality" of phaerimm.
It doesn't sound that 'right' to me. Pope Benedict might send you a writ decrying your attempt to "borrow" a term (that seems to have been engraved in the Roman Catholic laity) to describe a group of hideous, evil creatures.
Well, sodality can also mean just "fellowship." And while it's probably a stretch to say that phaerimm engage in the kind of social unit that we'd usually assume to be a fellowship, it has been noted in the Realmslore that they do prefer being with others of their own kind, and working toward common goals. Which, as I loosely see it, is pretty much what a fellowship is anyway.
While it can simply mean a group or a fellowship, "sodality" almost always has that religious connotation. And "fellowship" sounds rather good-aligned, as opposed to cabal, which, though can also mean just "group," has a devious, evil ring to it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 04 Jan 2011 15:01:28 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 02:16:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
A flux of aboleths sounds apt.
I'm rather fond of an Addendum of Aboleths.....since that whole mess feels like it was just an aftermarket add on to my Realms
I kinda like a fubar of Phaeriim.......... or maybe a bit more seriously a frenzy?
Frenzy? Oh, I'd rather not use it to refer to a group of aboleths. At. All. You see, here in the Philippines, that's a brand of "something" (which I suppose can't be mentioned here)---something I myself use. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 03:02:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Parliament or senate of owls, gang or mugging of butterflies, etc. It makes me wonder if the correct terminology would be axes of dwarves, a gearwheel of gnomes, doublets of halflings, a chime of faeries?
A round of dwarves, and a smorgasbord of halflings. A smaller group of halflings would be an entree. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 03:10:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
A round of dwarves, and a smorgasbord of halflings. A smaller group of halflings would be an entree.
Hmm....I was thinking a shield of dwarves.
Your halfling names sound like they came straight off of a Dragon owned Inn's menu |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 05:43:14
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| I like 'Clutch of Phaerimm'. Has a ring to it. I am seconding (thirding?) 'Flux of Aboleths'. What about illithids? 'Pod' seems fitting, but since that term is used IRL for cetaceans, it might be confusing. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 14:34:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
For illithids, I favor confluence.
Actually, I tend to term groups of illithids according to their collective philosophical outlooks -- or "Creeds," as they're called in The Illithiad. One group, for example, could be called 'the Awaiters,' while another might be 'the Creatives.'
Generally, though, I'd just say a Creed of Illithids. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 14:54:27
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| Are there really enough people who have seen a group of phaerimm that it would generate a commonly accepted name for them? I would imagine a proper name for a group of phaerimm would simply be a "By the gods, please make the pain stop, it's digesting my spleen!" |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 14:57:29
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Clutch and creed seem fitting. Tangle is not bad either.
A dread of phaerimm...sounds good as well.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2011 : 18:25:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Thank you everyone for your input.
If the Netherese were the first to coin the term "X of Phaerimm", what word do you think they'd use? Would the first Netherese Arcanist to discover the Phaerimm have made up the term?
Would the (presumably haughty) Netherese use a lesser word like "clutch" or "tangle"
Or in your opinion(s) would they grudgingly respect the Phaerimm enough to use a word like "dread"?
I'd definitely favor the Netherese using one of those lesser terms, and perhaps even something more derogatory.
Later sages, of course, would prefer "dread" or a similar word -- they'd lack the Netherese arrogance and have more of an idea of what the phaerimm could do or had done. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2011 : 18:46:44
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Ah, I like your answer Wooly. It allows for history (read: passage of time) to play with the terminology, making it all more authentic and real.
For a deep immersion Realms game, I think it would be fun for players to read a modern Realms sage's account of Phaerimm (say in their attacks on Evereska) where "dread" is used, then overhear "clutch" or "tangle" used by Shadovar the PCs are spying on. |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2011 : 20:45:14
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| Ditto to Mr Misc. Though, I think #$%^load of phaerimm was probably also used by the Netherese. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2011 : 21:06:28
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| So would it be a sharlot of shadovar? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2011 : 21:33:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Thank you everyone for your input.
If the Netherese were the first to coin the term "X of Phaerimm", what word do you think they'd use? Would the first Netherese Arcanist to discover the Phaerimm have made up the term?
Would the (presumably haughty) Netherese use a lesser word like "clutch" or "tangle"
Or in your opinion(s) would they grudgingly respect the Phaerimm enough to use a word like "dread"?
I'd definitely favor the Netherese using one of those lesser terms, and perhaps even something more derogatory.
Later sages, of course, would prefer "dread" or a similar word -- they'd lack the Netherese arrogance and have more of an idea of what the phaerimm could do or had done.
Agreed. The Neths were too arrogant to call them a name that connotes respect/awe. I could imagine some below the flying enclaves calling them such (given, of course, that they know of their existence at all)---but never the haughty archwizards nor their equally arrogant servants. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 00:35:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Thank you everyone for your input.
If the Netherese were the first to coin the term "X of Phaerimm", what word do you think they'd use? Would the first Netherese Arcanist to discover the Phaerimm have made up the term?
Would the (presumably haughty) Netherese use a lesser word like "clutch" or "tangle"
Or in your opinion(s) would they grudgingly respect the Phaerimm enough to use a word like "dread"?
I'd definitely favor the Netherese using one of those lesser terms, and perhaps even something more derogatory.
Later sages, of course, would prefer "dread" or a similar word -- they'd lack the Netherese arrogance and have more of an idea of what the phaerimm could do or had done.
I'll agree with Wooly for the most part, but I still don't think either "clutch" or "tangle" are appropriate grouping-terms for the phaerimm.
Hmmm. Possible alternatives:- "drain," "conical," "nihilist," [more to come]... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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