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Crossed Arrows
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jan 2011 : 22:42:31
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For some time, I have been working on an outline for a book set in Waterdeep. I have some outlines and character descriptions, as well as a lot in info, but i have never started the actual story.
It revolves around the Year of the Pointed Bone: Lhestyn, as the "Masked Lady," infiltrates Shadow Thieves Guild of Waterdeep and exposes it. Within the span of a bloody week, the Shadow Thieves are either dead or fled from the city due to the Watch and the Lord's agents (like Lhestyn).
However, in keeping with the quote: "History is written by those who have hanged heroes" (Braveheart) I offer an alternate explanation to that story. It is similar to the plot line of "A Fistful of Dollars" where the main character plays the Waterdeep authorities against the Shadow thieves for his own profit and motives, keeping you guessing as to what side he is truly on.
The main character is an anti-hero modeled after several of the characters I find interesting. He is a Ranger/Monk/rogue/Telflammar Shadowlord mix. Without a long character description, he most closely resembles Deadpool from Marvel comics, complete with voices in his head, inability to remain focused, inappropriate comedic outburst and a generally very poor attitude towards everything. These mental issues, which lead to greater character flaws, are based on his curse (which I won't divulge just yet).
So i have a few questions that i'd like feedback with if anyone would like to throw in their two cents:
1. I'd like to make him Epic Level. But how powerful (# of levels) do you feel I could make him without losing the "underdog appeal" if you will. Meaning, when does he become tow powerful that the enemies he faces would need seem an interesting challenge to the reader?
2. He is immortal in a certain sense: He can die, but he just can't stay dead. Are immortal characters overdone in FR?
3. Although I didn't reveal much of the storyline except the overarching plot, does it seem interesting? Is it inappropriate to alter excepted FR history?
I'll have some more questions as I think of them. Again, any feedback would be great. If you are interested in more of the plot/character descriptions, I send more.
Finally taking this story from my head (where it has been for 15 years) onto paper is my 2011 resolution.
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Edited by - Crossed Arrows on 01 Jan 2011 22:43:15
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2011 : 00:20:09
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quote:
Crossed Arrows
2. He is immortal in a certain sense: He can die, but he just can't stay dead. Are immortal characters overdone in FR?
D&D settings share peculiar quirks which make character longevity, resurrection, and immortality reasonably attainable. There's even a certain expectation for characters who have achieved power to survive and extend their prime years indefinitely. Adding one more to the list won't hurt. Having one play at your D&D table might be a problem.
Note that even dragons, demiliches, the tarrasque, great nations, and powerful gods can all die in the Realms. Some things just take a lot more effort to kill than others.
I applaud your efforts to start a novel. I'm not a published author, but you'll see they almost universally agree on offering one piece of paramount advice:
Don't write fanfic. Just don't. At least not with the intention of ever having it published. Your dream is not totally hopeless, but having Wizards publish your FR fanfic is highly improbable until you've already demonstrated your writing skills with other successful works (and don't call the Wizards - they'll call you). The Realms are unchallenged intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast (subsidiary of Hasbro Toys & Games) - even if they appear to be abandoning the FR brand - so you can't legally publish anything involving the Realms without their explicit approval. You can of course retain personal copyright on whatever fanfic you submit into public domain, but you can't sell or profit from it (although you can use it for practice and résumé/portfolio purposes).
You'll find a lot of good tips and advice about "the industry" on various author's webpages. Advice about technical writing skills is something else entirely.
Final detail - Year of the Pointed Bone is 1298DR. I don't know WotC's official policy, but it's fairly evident they no longer publish any fiction set prior to 4E (circa 1479DR); outside of, perhaps, isolated short stories which detail established characters, plot and setting elements. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Jan 2011 01:06:38 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2011 : 07:36:49
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Welcome to CK, Crossed Arrows.
Your story sounds interesting- mildly amusing, even. This is coming from a fan of Deadpool, mind you, but one who is also guilty of crossing Realms lore with Marvel on occasion. (Take a look at the "Plots and Schemes of Lords and Thieves" adventure thread in the CK Inn forums, for a good laugh. I've imported (black-suit) Spidey!!)
As Arik said, however, don't expect WotC to publish it, as they have pretty much abandoned all things pre-4th ed. A shame, really, since there are so many great stories that will never be told now, and quite frankly, loosing that many great characters is a staggering blow to the Realms.
Your tale sounds like a good one, and I'm sure folks would be interested. As far as epic level characters go, it's generally not a good idea, though, as the Realms already have/(had) many of those. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2011 : 14:15:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
As Arik said, however, don't expect WotC to publish it, as they have pretty much abandoned all things pre-4th ed. A shame, really, since there are so many great stories that will never be told now, and quite frankly, loosing that many great characters is a staggering blow to the Realms.
Not only that, but WotC doesn't take unsolicited manuscripts. You want to have them publish a Realms novel you wrote, you've got to be a proven (as in, published) author and let them come to you. Then, if that happens, they'll tell you the book they want written. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Crossed Arrows
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2011 : 23:19:31
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You can submit a 30 page writing sample which could be from your potential book. Perhaps Wizards would contract you to write a novel of their choosing and allow you to write your novel of your choice later if you become a proven author. Seems logical. I'm not quitting the day job just yet, by any means.
I'm not a fan of the following comment from the wizards website and I don't think an implied consent contract like this would hold up in a tort court on plagiarism accusations:
Further, you acknowledge and agree that the materials contained in your submission may be identical with, similar to the theme, plot, idea, format, or other element of the material that Wizards has independently developed or that has or may come to Wizards from other sources and you agree that you shall not be entitled to any compensation by reason of the use by Wizards of such similar or identical material.
I also agree that not continuing to write anything pre-spell plague is not a good idea. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2011 : 23:24:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Crossed Arrows
I'm not a fan of the following comment from the wizards website and I don't think an implied consent contract like this would hold up in a tort court on plagiarism accusations:
Further, you acknowledge and agree that the materials contained in your submission may be identical with, similar to the theme, plot, idea, format, or other element of the material that Wizards has independently developed or that has or may come to Wizards from other sources and you agree that you shall not be entitled to any compensation by reason of the use by Wizards of such similar or identical material.
Yeah, that particular bit has caused a lot of consternation. It's had a rather chilling effect on fan-generated material. I've heard (I've not verified this for myself) that because of that bit, the elven netbook project that was going on over on the WotC forums has moved elsewhere. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 00:02:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Crossed Arrows
I'm not a fan of the following comment from the wizards website and I don't think an implied consent contract like this would hold up in a tort court on plagiarism accusations:
Further, you acknowledge and agree that the materials contained in your submission may be identical with, similar to the theme, plot, idea, format, or other element of the material that Wizards has independently developed or that has or may come to Wizards from other sources and you agree that you shall not be entitled to any compensation by reason of the use by Wizards of such similar or identical material.
Yeah, that particular bit has caused a lot of consternation. It's had a rather chilling effect on fan-generated material. I've heard (I've not verified this for myself) that because of that bit, the elven netbook project that was going on over on the WotC forums has moved elsewhere.
I'd be a little more cautious with assumptions like this, though. There were other more pressing problems with that project as well. I don't think it was entirely the result of just this one problem. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 01:41:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Crossed Arrows
I'm not a fan of the following comment from the wizards website and I don't think an implied consent contract like this would hold up in a tort court on plagiarism accusations:
Further, you acknowledge and agree that the materials contained in your submission may be identical with, similar to the theme, plot, idea, format, or other element of the material that Wizards has independently developed or that has or may come to Wizards from other sources and you agree that you shall not be entitled to any compensation by reason of the use by Wizards of such similar or identical material.
Yeah, that particular bit has caused a lot of consternation. It's had a rather chilling effect on fan-generated material. I've heard (I've not verified this for myself) that because of that bit, the elven netbook project that was going on over on the WotC forums has moved elsewhere.
I'd be a little more cautious with assumptions like this, though. There were other more pressing problems with that project as well. I don't think it was entirely the result of just this one problem.
That was what I had heard. I was careful not to present it as fact.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 04:58:06
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I had done some NPC creations for the Elven Netbook, and while I see the great job that came of it I still don't see the problem here. It basically says, if you submit this stuff we might use it (as it might have come from another source) but we'll not pay you. Honestly, I'm not writing this stuff TO get paid or even get published. I write it because it's fun, it might be useful to someone else, and because I have the time.
If someone is attempting to get paid for something they've written, I highly doubt WotC is the best place to go. I'm no writer (my grammar is poor) but another publisher like TOR or even something independant could be used instead of WotC? |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Crossed Arrows
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 05:08:07
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I would not describe it as a concern over getting paid for writing something. I'd would more accurately describe it as a character (or plot line) that a writer, amateur or professional, may be attached to and want creative control over that character (or plot line).
Submitting a character or story that is rejected and used for another Wizards product then become their intellectual property and ceases to be the property of the individual who created it. Then that character/story cannot be used without Wizards permission. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 05:14:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Crossed Arrows
Submitting a character or story that is rejected and used for another Wizards product then become their intellectual property and ceases to be the property of the individual who created it. Then that character/story cannot be used without Wizards permission.
Permission to be useed in an attempt to get published. I understand that a persons ideas given freely to someone then used willy-nilly and not have the power to do anything to stop them seems bad. But even if that is the case I'd feel happy with myself that something I know I created (maybe not given credit for *shurgs*) had been used in such a fashion. And of course there's always fan-fic and non-publication forums to post these ideas and such without repercussions. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 06:35:02
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quote:
Crossed Arrows
Further, you acknowledge and agree that the materials contained in your submission may be identical with, similar to the theme, plot, idea, format, or other element of the material that Wizards has independently developed or that has or may come to Wizards from other sources and you agree that you shall not be entitled to any compensation by reason of the use by Wizards of such similar or identical material.
I perceive this clause being included to protect Wizards (and those who publish through Wizards) from legal threats. By "agreeing" to this clause you essentially waive your right to challenge them with any legal claim that you have copyright on any material you've submitted to Wizards (even if your submission was unsolicited) if it happens to be remarkably similar to other material Wizards already has (or is working on).
This situation may seem unlikely, but it has happened before, and burned published authors before - certain authors (including some authors of D&D/FR fanfic) are very cautious about minimizing this risk. The risk might actually be fairly significant, given the huge FR fanbase.
CA - imagine your reaction if you submit your story/novel and Wizards rejects it, then publishes an essentially identical novel a short time later; you might naturally assume they completely ripped you off, stole your story/idea, and rewrote the novel without your involvement. You might even have your original manuscript and dated records of all correspondence between you and them to prove your claim in court. That's why this clause is present. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 03 Jan 2011 06:46:12 |
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Crossed Arrows
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 06:52:15
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The general consensus is that WotC does not publish plots and novels that are pre-spellplague.
Regarding the Character I briefly described in the first post: I have nearly his entire existence mapped out. So naturally I have multiple storylines.
One that I could go post-spellplague with: If you read the last paragraph on page 61 and continue onto page 62 of City of Splendors: Waterdeep (3.X) it describes Lady Alathene Moonstar’s plot to send a company of adventurers through the Shadowplane (now shadowfell I believe) to find Vanrackdoom from the shadowplane as the fortress cannot be found from the normal undermountain.
Lady Alathene plays a small, but significant role in the prior storyline. The main character has a relationship with her that could be best described as indebtedness, and he has the power (as all Telflammar Shadowlords) to access the shadowfell and find Vanrackdoom. In addition, he has a pretty strong dislike of Shar.
I have looked through as much info as I can find and have not found anything indicating Vanrack Moonstar or Vanrackdoom had been destroyed. Am I correct?
It says in the 4E campaign setting that the Telflammar Shadowlords are worshippers of Shar now, so I need to find a workaround on that, but it should be to hard to brainstorm something.
Would that be a strong plotline?
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