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lumo
Acolyte
7 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 00:19:37
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Hello. I recently started reading Unclean. I have only read two previous FR novels, both being Drizzt. I am not too familiar with the FR universe and just have a couple questions, if someone could possibly answer them for me.
I read up on some stuff on the FR wiki page, but I don't want to delve to much into it in case I spoil something for myself. I read that Thay is a country with high trafficking of slaves and that the Red Wizards are, for a lack of a better word, evil. There are 11 Tharchions, who I guess are like dukes of the various provinces in Thay and the Zulkirs are headmasters of magic schools who, I guess are in control of Thay.
As soon as I started to read up on anything, it went into various plots surrounding characters that are featured in Unclean, so I stopped.
I was just hoping if someone could give me a brief history lesson on Thay and how it relates to the rest of Faerun, without giving too much away. I'm enjoying the book so far, page 106, but I'm not understanding everything. There just seems to be so much rich history in this book that I feel I would need to read numerous books that take place before this one, just to familiarize myself with the setting.
Sorry for the long post, but I just want to understand this world better so I could enjoy it more. Thank you.
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 03:13:52
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Get the 3E book Unapproachable East...
Or get the 1E book Dreams of the Red Wizards, or the 2E Box Spellbound. Maybe the FRCS...
Just suggestions, They are game books, not novels....
I hope this helps.
Check Amazon or Noble knight Games
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 13 Nov 2010 03:18:56 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 05:16:36
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| Thay has a long, colorful history. It's hard to narrow it down specially that you haven't mentioned what 'exactly' do you want to know. So I recommend you read those references Brim mentioned. And feel free to ask us any particular part of Thay's history you want to know. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 21:53:26
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| try getting hold of a copy of the novel red magic as well.it features tam in it but is set in 1362 long before the spellplague. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 21:57:16
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Good call swifty... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 04:08:29
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| Also, read Red Ambition. It's a short story featuring Szass Tam in the anthology Realms of Magic. It's pre-Spellplague. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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DragonReader
Senior Scribe
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 21:42:11
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| Question. Is it necessary to read the Haunted Lands before The Brotherhood of the Griffon? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 02:04:14
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quote:
Originally posted by DragonReader
Question. Is it necessary to read the Haunted Lands before The Brotherhood of the Griffon?
NO. The HL trilogy has a totally different plot and the BotG trilogy is not its sequel. But I encourage you to read it still. The Brotherhood played an important role in the War of the Zulkirs. The War would most probably wouldn't have happened without Aoth's revelation of Fastrin's book. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 02:21:53
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quote:
Originally posted by swifty
try getting hold of a copy of the novel red magic as well.it features tam in it but is set in 1362 long before the spellplague.
Just.......... NO. 
Thay is very interesting. That story........ not so much.
However, the other short-story mentioned was excellent (Red Ambition). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Nov 2010 02:26:29 |
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DragonReader
Senior Scribe
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 03:44:51
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by DragonReader
Question. Is it necessary to read the Haunted Lands before The Brotherhood of the Griffon?
NO. The HL trilogy has a totally different plot and the BotG trilogy is not its sequel. But I encourage you to read it still. The Brotherhood played an important role in the War of the Zulkirs. The War would most probably wouldn't have happened without Aoth's revelation of Fastrin's book.
Thanks! I will definitely go back and read the Haunted Lands as well, but am quite a bit behind on my 'to read' list and wanted to get Brotherhood because the second book as the 4th part of Gate of Madness and I have the first 3 parts already.
Both HL and Brotherhood look quite interesting. |
Edited by - DragonReader on 16 Nov 2010 03:46:11 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 04:20:31
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| Good news is Richard said his next trilogy after the Brotherhood is still about them. I guess they've become too successful (sales-wise) that perhaps WotC decided to make them long-staying characters. And that wouldn't be a problem for Aoth, as his spellscarred state rendered him virtually immortal. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 22:16:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
try getting hold of a copy of the novel red magic as well.it features tam in it but is set in 1362 long before the spellplague.
Just.......... NO.
Thay is very interesting. That story........ not so much.
However, the other short-story mentioned was excellent (Red Ambition).
its been a long time time since i read red magic but i quite enjoyed it.i mean come on,there were worse harper novels than that. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 00:31:40
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quote:
Originally posted by swifty
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
try getting hold of a copy of the novel red magic as well.it features tam in it but is set in 1362 long before the spellplague.
Just.......... NO.
Thay is very interesting. That story........ not so much.
However, the other short-story mentioned was excellent (Red Ambition).
its been a long time time since i read red magic but i quite enjoyed it.
Agreed. I'm not often sure why there is such disliked heaped upon Red Magic. 'Twas an enjoyable tale, though I can certainly appreciate why some parts of it may not agree with Realms fans.
I'm assuming that Jean Rabe's authorship partly won me over, also. I've long been a fan of her writing.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 04:14:25
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| Thanks to Thay, Maligor, and Szass Tam, I found more than enough reasons to finish it. Just like many pointed out in various threads, what ruins the story, or what prevents it from shining like a gem is the incredulously annoying Harpers. I don't particularly hate the Harpers. Heh, I even find Ruha quite interesting. But that trio in Red Magic is most probably the worst of them all. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 04:44:28
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quote:
Originally posted by swifty
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
try getting hold of a copy of the novel red magic as well.it features tam in it but is set in 1362 long before the spellplague.
Just.......... NO.
Thay is very interesting. That story........ not so much.
However, the other short-story mentioned was excellent (Red Ambition).
its been a long time time since i read red magic but i quite enjoyed it.i mean come on,there were worse harper novels than that.
Agreed. I don't remember loving that novel, but I don't remember having any issues with it. I've had issues with some of the other Harpers books, though. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Nov 2010 05:06:48 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2010 : 07:26:51
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I just realized after reviewing my posts in this thread that I actually gave out some HL and BotG spoilers...I hope you didn't mind, DragonReader.  |
Every beginning has an end. |
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DragonReader
Senior Scribe
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 01:44:17
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| Don't worry about it Dennis. |
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lumo
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 13:05:02
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| Thanks for the tips. In what book is Red Ambition in? Also, do I need to read books surrounding the 'spellplague' in order to move on to the next Griffin trilogy? Is the spellplague a world changing event like the cataclysm in Dragonlance? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 16:18:38
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quote:
Originally posted by lumo
Thanks for the tips. In what book is Red Ambition in? Also, do I need to read books surrounding the 'spellplague' in order to move on to the next Griffin trilogy? Is the spellplague a world changing event like the cataclysm in Dragonlance?
It is a world-changing event; more than any other world-changing event I know of, in any setting. But it's not really described in books. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 17:39:06
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I don't understand what's so offensive about Red Magic. It introduced a new spell/monster, no gamebreakers, no RSEs, and a bit more lore about Thay, Szass Tam, and a few Zulkirs.
(Cast Detect Spoiler to read further)
To be perfectly honest I found the book rather bland, one of those "filler" novels that just steers the ship well enough to avoid icebergs while the Captain's sleeping. Nothing to write home about, the only outstanding merit is the central topic of Red Wizards of Thay. If it was about Harpers or nobodies (like Ffolk) than it would've been discarded before chapter three. Maligor's evil plot seemed rather small-minded for my tastes (I'd personally expect a Zulkir's grand evil plans to be more Thay-shaking, not infantile stuff better suited to plotty little Cyricists) while Szass's evil plot was just another uninspired Xanatos boredom which quietly reaps him some extra gold in the background. In short: a boring book with a little extra lore about Thay. Oh yeah, it had some heroes in it too, it must have, I can't remember them at all. I'll save my vitriol and vehemence for lore which is truly offensive, not lore which is hardly memorable.
Red Ambition was definitely worth reading. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 21 Nov 2010 17:52:23 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 18:00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by lumo
Thanks for the tips. In what book is Red Ambition in? Also, do I need to read books surrounding the 'spellplague' in order to move on to the next Griffin trilogy? Is the spellplague a world changing event like the cataclysm in Dragonlance?
"Red Ambition" was published in the Realms of Magic anthology.
The Spellplague was certainly a world-changing event -- and it's effects upon the world of Toril is largely comparable to the long-term impact of the Cataclysm on Krynn. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 09:01:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I don't understand what's so offensive about Red Magic. It introduced a new spell/monster, no gamebreakers, no RSEs, and a bit more lore about Thay, Szass Tam, and a few Zulkirs.
(Cast Detect Spoiler to read further)
To be perfectly honest I found the book rather bland, one of those "filler" novels that just steers the ship well enough to avoid icebergs while the Captain's sleeping. Nothing to write home about, the only outstanding merit is the central topic of Red Wizards of Thay. If it was about Harpers or nobodies (like Ffolk) than it would've been discarded before chapter three. Maligor's evil plot seemed rather small-minded for my tastes (I'd personally expect a Zulkir's grand evil plans to be more Thay-shaking, not infantile stuff better suited to plotty little Cyricists) while Szass's evil plot was just another uninspired Xanatos boredom which quietly reaps him some extra gold in the background. In short: a boring book with a little extra lore about Thay. Oh yeah, it had some heroes in it too, it must have, I can't remember them at all. I'll save my vitriol and vehemence for lore which is truly offensive, not lore which is hardly memorable.
Red Ambition was definitely worth reading.
The three ridiculous Harpers are what made me almost throw the book. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 09:13:41
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| Oh, now I remember. Yeah. The Heroes were Harpers. I can't recall being annoyed by that, though I'm still sure that I was. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Haunted Lands - New FR reader
