| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Nov 2010 : 21:25:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
AFAIK, there is no way to resist any kind of dispel magics, even spell resistance.
I'm curious as to which spells you have at the same time. I find it hard to find 50 low-level spells that can ALL stack and not overlap.
As for your question, as other said before, if anything Mystra will be pleased, certainly not offended or weakened. If she was that weak, she could get killed with a simple strike to the head with a staff (now wait a minute...)
That's good to know that Mystra will be happy with it, and innovations and stuff. Also, spell resistance and infinite spell resistance, ie, the terribly named 'spell immunity', is generally a *terrible* way to resist spells...
And there are toonnsss of ways of resisting dispels! I'm trying to come up with a good set of layered/tiered/ablative/defense-in-depth ways to resist Dispel Magic and it's variants.
If you are curious, here's what I have so far:
1. Have a few sacrificial spell that is easy to dispel. Maybe make sure that these are cast at fairly high caster level. Endure Elements works well.
2. Have as many of these up as possible: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Globe of Invulnerability, Spell Turning, a Magical version of Dispelling Buffer, and Mystic Shield spells
3. Have a Spellblade of Dispel Magic on person and 'wielded'
4. Have a Ring of Counterspells-Dispel Magic, & Ring of Spell Battle (combined item)
5. Have at least ONE, but ideally more, Contingent Spell (per feat) Wings of Cover-- if possible, each tuned to be a different color, maybe with a Rod of Spell Thematics or something. Set the first to go off "If I or my equipment is subject to any dispelling type spell, which are not otherwise nullified by other effects, wings of cover to stop the attack." Set the second to also say "And I am not covered by a Contingent Wings of Cover with Blue thematics". Set the third to say "And I am not covered by a Contingent Wings of Cover with Yellow Thematics."
NOTE: Anyone know a less complicated way to do this??
6. Have a Contingent Spell Dimension Door, straight up, maximum caster level and range. "I yell, speak, mouth, or obviously attempt to say 'bugout'"
7. Have a Contingent Spell Dispel Magic of our own, Targeted an otherwise completely mundane boiled leather (or whatever, maybe something stronger?) skullcap (for a colossal++ monster...) that goes *over* your face and crown slot items, which will then envelop you and provide you with complete cover against most things. The contingency is "I yell, speak, mouth, or obviously attempt to say 'Covernow'". Also, as soon as any dispel effect gets to that sucker, no later dispel effects are going to be able to target the character unless they come from underneath the character, or effects are done so as to destroy the cover, as the character will now have complete cover... this can buy time.
8. Have a Spellblade of Greater Dispel Magic on person and 'wielded'
9. Have a Ring of Greater Counterspells-Greater Dispel magic, & Spell Battle (combined item)
10. Have a Spellblade of Chain Dispel, on person and 'wielded'
11. Have a Spellblade of Disjunction, on person and 'wielded' (would that do anything against that terrible, terrible spell? Why would anyone cast that spell? Ugh...?) |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 09 Nov 2010 07:05:14 |
 |
|
|
_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 08:16:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Why the... heck... would an author write a scene in a novel that didn't really take place? That's the biggest piece of bu... hogwash... to come out of 4e (and there was an awful amount of back-peddling/BS in that first year of release).
So writing about dreams or thoughts of someone would be poopy too?
Mod edit: Language, please.  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Nov 2010 11:11:29 |
|
|
|
Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2010 : 12:37:04
|
Yeah, that scene in "The Fractured Sky" was clearly a 'vision', and was clearly written as such. From comments I've read by the author, he was asked in advance to add a bit about the murder of Mystra. A nugget of lore, from whence many others might spring?
Markustay, did you even read that series? |
Edited by - Acolyte Thirteen on 09 Nov 2010 13:13:37 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 19:42:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gavinfoxx
Stolen? They wands are only brought out of the portable hole / bag of holding / the hidden command word activated parts of the belt of many pockets when they are used in the morning, then put away again. And the two characters never need to sleep ever, any more... And I believe Sunder (in combat) can only target weapons and shields...
and then they were thrown in a simple rope trick spell. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 19:58:26
|
| Just a note to put for you as a DM when it comes to players using defensive spells. One of the spells that I had developed was a spell that actually used the "power" of defensive wards on a person and transmuted said "power" to create a blast of an energy type centered on said spell's area. The dmg was based on the spell's level. Thus, if you have a lot of "persisted" spells on a character, the potential "power" there (considering that the metamagic levels involved would be involved in the potential power draw) could be pretty devastating. Think man with flamethrower smoking a cigar... only to discover a leak in the tank. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 21:06:25
|
That's brilliant! the risk they take is directly proportionate to the amount of spells they've layered themselves with! Kudos!
Anyone wanting to apply this could simply say that Wild Magic Zones (even tiny ones) allow for a certain % chance of critical failure of personal wards, and sneaky (ebil) DMs can place those wherever they like. While this works great in a post-ToT game, it is insanely easy to do in a post-plague era game! (considering Plaguelands = 'Wild magic')
quote:
Originally posted by Acolyte Thirteen
Yeah, that scene in "The Fractured Sky" was clearly a 'vision', and was clearly written as such. From comments I've read by the author, he was asked in advance to add a bit about the murder of Mystra. A nugget of lore, from whence many others might spring?
Markustay, did you even read that series?
No, but I stand by what I said.
If he was asked to write about the fall of Mystra (and why do the in-house guys get to avoid the controversial stuff? VERY telling), then he should have put a little more thought into it (especially since it is the official stance now that the events in that scene were NOT what really happened - designer caveat at its finest). Had those events gone over big with the fans, I'm sure they would have been made canon instead. Nothing like passing-out 'faulty landmines' to freelanceers, eh?
And besides, I have already stated in another thread that when it comes to D&D novels I only read FR. I tried both a GH and an Eberron novel and didn't care for either (not that they were bad, they just didn't hold my interest).
The Forgotten Realms are located ON Toril, in-case some of you forgot. If it happens outside of Toril then it is a novel pertaining to another setting - in this case Planescape. I do not read Planescape novels, sorry. If anything even remotely connected to The Realms was an FR novel, then we have to include nearly every other setting it has 'touched' somehow (including Earth, and Lankhmar). Everyone draws their 'line in the sand' somewhere - mine is at the outer edges of the atmosphere and at the planer boundary. If I wanted to read about Munchkins, I'd read Wizard of Oz. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 21 Nov 2010 21:12:23 |
|
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 21:25:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gavinfoxx
... this just means that certain types of threats aren't really threats to these characters any more!
I would like to meet these two with my mage... all the permanent spells in the world would not change the fact that they would be a pile of dust in a very few secunds...
On a difirent note: It is my clear believe, that divine(clerical) magic uses the weave. Im pretty sure that no magic divine og arcane can work within a dead-magic zone, because of the fact that it too runs on weave juice.
And to your question: No... two low level spellcasters violating the weave like that would have no effect on Mystra nor the weave!!! |
|
|
|
Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 21:53:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
quote:
Originally posted by Gavinfoxx
... this just means that certain types of threats aren't really threats to these characters any more!
I would like to meet these two with my mage... all the permanent spells in the world would not change the fact that they would be a pile of dust in a very few secunds...
Might I ask what level and tactics your mage would use? Do you have a character sheet online anywhere, for 3.Xe? I'd be glad to do a PVP one shot some time, running my character with the full suite of buffs against your mage.
Mostly, it meant that certain types of threats -- ie, big bruiser melee monsters that don't have ranged attacks, can't fly, that deal only hp damage and focus on full attacks, like, say, the Tarrasque -- aren't really direct threats to the person of these characters.
Anyway, I'd have to give you a list of house rules and house spells that your mage uses, and I'd give you a list of house rules and house spells and stuff that my character uses, and we would have to agree on a set of common house rules, and an appropriate arena, and such. |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 21 Nov 2010 21:58:59 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 22:18:56
|
Divine magic on Toril used the Weave (past-tense - in 4e the weave is gone).
I have given my thoughts on this in a number of other threads over the past couple of years, and as time goes on I am proven to be on the right path (and have been told as much by several designers, including THE most important one as far as the Realms are concerned). If anything, the 4e lore regarding magic has proven me dead-on.
The Weave was not the only system of magic, it was an interface for magical use by which Arcane Magic was easiest to access. Both other methods and other types of energy were always available, but greatly down-played by Mystra's church. We have examples of both energy-types (Divine/Radiant, Shadow/Umbral), and methodology (Runes/Metatext, Hishna/Pluma, etc) in previous lore.
The mistake that is made by most fans/scribes is that they believe everything they read, which has been proven patently FALSE in regards to how godly magic works.
The interface known as the Weave probably started out as something else (I'm thinking a sort-of magical 'forcefield'), and Mystryl realized early on that in-order to draw more power into herself (and therefor The Weave) she needed the power of worship, and so created her church (which energizes her and her weave through her Faithful). In order to draw this following to her she had to offer something (ALL gods do), and that something was an simple, systematic approach to magic, following a very explicit set of rules (material, somatic, and verbal components) that nearly everyone could perform, with a little time and practice. Note here that not everyone needed this - there were always folks born with an innate talent for magic (psionicists and 3e's sorcerors, for example).
Eventually, as her church spread and time passed, MANY mortals ascended to godhood, and the 'old guard' stepped-aside. As time went on, many of these ascended beings also used Mystryl's Weave, because of its simplicity, and because it was what they were used to. Note here, once again, that divine magic DID NOT require Mytryl's Weave - this is where the wrongful assumption comes in. As more and more 'gods' used her Weave, she modified it so that it also worked as a simple spell-delivery system in lieu of divine magic... all she asked in-return is that the gods using it spread the untruth that her magic was the only magic (thus providing her with more FAITH, and thus more energy). Ergo, even folks who did not worship Mystryl - and even some that worked against her - still strengthened her and the Weave with their belief in it (they contributed to her portfolio, in game terms).
By the time guys like Cyric and Kelemvor ascended, this artificial system had been in-place for a VERY long time, and come to be the 'default' system used by most gods (so they were able to ignore their worshipers for the most part, because the spells were being delivered by the Weave). After the ToT, the gods were forced to once-again interact more directly with their faithful, and some may have gone back to forms of magic other then Mystra's Weave. This is what Cyric would have done in-time. He hated the fact Mystra was able to deny him magic* during the events of Prince of Lies, which is probably why he turned to Shar and her Shadoweave.
One can assume that whatever the problem with 'magical energy' was, that the Weave was created to protect Toril from, is now gone in 4e, since mages can now access that magical energy directly without getting destroyed. I say 'magical energy', rather then 'Arcane magic', because arcane magic was something specifically gotten from the Weave. Although Arcane (energies) Magic may still be available post-plague, they no longer need the Weave, and there are also other power-sources available (and always were - their existence was just obscured by the Lady of Mysteries).
Another assumption that has to be made is that there were always some gods - probably all the 'old ones' - that didn't bother to use the Weave for their churches. Shar is the first one that comes to mind, but I have a feeling Oghma's faithful (and probably Deneir's) also knew the truth of things. This could very well be another reason why the scribes of Candlekeep are considered "amongst the most dangerous forces on Toril". 
*This is all theorized from the point of view of 'hindsight', since at the time that novel was written it was assumed that divine magic needed the Weave, which has since been proven false. It was just the simplest, most-(cost)effective means by which a god could deliver magic to his/her worshipers with very little effort on their part. Gods always had access to 'higher magic' then the Weave, but that magic was unstable and hard to deliver directly to mortals without killing them. Mystra was NEVER able to really deny magic to 'the gods', Cyric just believed that at the time (since his faithful were no longer receiving spells). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 22 Nov 2010 16:15:57 |
|
|
|
Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 22:57:38
|
This is when the lich casts one spell and says thanks for the power up fools...
*Reaving Dispel* 9th level spell, transfers any buffs or spells that are casted on a person to be dispel off of them, while moving them onto the caster. This spell can even dispel undispellible spells.
Then, as a single person looks on in shock that his buffs are gone, and his comrades charge towards the lich, they go through an invisible wall of greater dispel magic taking away many more of their buffs.
Now this is all done well after his second in command spent your last battle casting reciprocal gyres on you, causing pretty much the max damage 25d6, despite him being only 9th level. The massive amount of buffs on you made this spell hurt you alot. (Since it deals 1d6 per LEVEL of spell currently affecting you, bunch of low levels and bunch of high levels makes this hurtful). If DM made him a bit higher, maybe he made it maximized for the full fun of 150 damage on you. (Or 75 if you make a will save).
I fail to understand why your posting this? Bragging about playing "We just win" games is like a boxer beating up a baby. I'm surprise the DM just doesn't ask you "So, how do you kill the guy this time?" and just play it out rather then rolling since that's pretty much what your doing.
As for Mystra being hurt? Not likely. At least not physically. Would it make her angry? Or upset? Depends on what your using it for. Weave does have that woman's touch as explained by Khelben in Magic of Faruen, and she know exactly what your doing with it. Just using the magic doesn't make her stronger in itself, just part of it. Going around killing people while buff up to the extremes likely means your killing worshipers of her. At a point it'll come to "They're expending this minor energy from me, and taking away this much energy by killing worshipers and users of the weave". She'll only take so much before it's not worth her gift and slam it down hard on you. In which case Shar might come and ask ya, who knows?
But uh, congrats on playing "Can't lose" game. I personally never played God Mode on a pen and paper game. Video games sure. But as long as your all having fun? Go wild. Just don't expect people to be impressed when you brag about it. Even more since your DM allows wearbear and divine agility to stack when they both have enhancments to dex.
|
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
Edited by - Dracons on 21 Nov 2010 23:16:42 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 23:41:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
That's brilliant! the risk they take is directly proportionate to the amount of spells they've layered themselves with! Kudos!
Anyone wanting to apply this could simply say that Wild Magic Zones (even tiny ones) allow for a certain % chance of critical failure of personal wards, and sneaky (ebil) DMs can place those wherever they like. While this works great in a post-ToT game, it is insanely easy to do in a post-plague era game! (considering Plaguelands = 'Wild magic')
Yes, and another thing to note is that the type of energy used depending on the specific spell transmuted (and I specify transmuted, because it wasn't a dispel effect). Abjurations became force dmg. Evocations defaulted to fire but could have been electric or cold depending on spell type. Transmutations became acid. Necromantic became negative energy effects. Divinations and enchantments affected the mind and had a chance of blinding the character (save was based on level of spell transmuted). Conjurations summoned a bunch of random objects for blunt damage. Illusions created a shadow evocation type effect (i.e. save or 1/5th dmg). The dmg itself was pretty low (like 1d3 per spell level transmuted) and it started with the lowest level spells and went up. It could only affect so many spell levels and used mechanics exactly like dispel magic (and thus, there were 3 different versions I wrote up).
I only used the spell once (I had more fun writing it up, and I had a particular player in mind to use it on). The guy was doing similiar to what you're talking about with spell persistence and metamagic reduction. He was also looking into means of stopping dispel magic. I highly encouraged him to look into all he was doing, but I created the spell just to show him to never get everything wound up into one basic trick. The problem I've always seen with min/maxers is if you knock the crutch out of the one thing they're depending on, their characters start to fall apart. It makes them step back and consider not being as focused as they can get on one thing. That being said, you have to be careful and not overkill this. If a player puts a lot of work into developing a trick, it should pay off.... just not all the time.... and sometimes they need to be reminded how fragile they're making themselves. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 23:51:14
|
| Hey Sleyvas, did you use reciprocal gyres as a base line?? |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
|
|
|
Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 01:17:41
|
Yea, Reaving Dispel and Slashing Dispel are pretty hardcore. We plan on getting some Wings of Cover Contingent Spells tuned to those, and also the Shrink Item Titan sized skullcap to break line of effect, and maybe a Spellblade tuned to it too.
Also, DM doesn't allow enhancements to stack, btw. Many of these buffs don't stack at ALL, it's just that enough of them stack for it to be worthwhile. Bite gives +2 enh to dex, for example, which doesn't stack with the +10 enh to dex... |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 22 Nov 2010 01:43:50 |
|
|
|
Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 01:45:07
|
Just pointing it out is all.
Why not just play pun pun? Less paperwork. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
|
|
|
Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 01:48:34
|
Cause the idea is we want to be powerful, but *limited*. We aren't godmoding, really, the DM and I basically made an agreement that we want to challenge each other. Challenge our ability to plan, our tactical acumen, our ability to make threats and challenges for high powered characters (in his case) and the ability of the characters to deal with those threats (in the player side of things).
Also, it helps that the DM's a Mathematician... and a RPG game designer (but not for a d20 game, he published a game with mechanics more inspired by Ars Magica than anything else...)
So we're basically just geeking out, really. He's definitely succeeded in challenging the character -- especially when we fight things we haven't specifically prepared for, and I *have* been giving him help on "this is how you would take our characters down", and he's still surprised me! |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 22 Nov 2010 02:05:52 |
|
|
|
Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 19:01:22
|
<off topic>
I think geeking out is fun, myself. If everyone's having fun at the gaming table, what's the big deal?
Even if you're not going overboard on the power level for fun's sake, the game (at high levels) lets you get pretty close. Reaving Dispell is a hoot, even if I'm the DM and my player zaps all the enemy mage's buffs away. Watching a 20th level Paladin roll a Critical Hit with his lance and getting to describe the effect of it on the dragon he's battling one on one in the air...that's all fun to me.
</off topic> |
|
|
|
Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 21:00:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
<off topic>
I think geeking out is fun, myself. If everyone's having fun at the gaming table, what's the big deal?
Even if you're not going overboard on the power level for fun's sake, the game (at high levels) lets you get pretty close. Reaving Dispell is a hoot, even if I'm the DM and my player zaps all the enemy mage's buffs away. Watching a 20th level Paladin roll a Critical Hit with his lance and getting to describe the effect of it on the dragon he's battling one on one in the air...that's all fun to me.
</off topic>
Thus is why I stated in my OP to this thread, go wild as long as your having fun.
I also made it clear that it isn't impressive to other people to break rules to have the power they had, as they're basically god modding for fun. WHich is fine, but don't act like it's suppose to be impressive or epic cause it isn't. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
|
|
|
Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 21:29:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dracons
Thus is why I stated in my OP to this thread, go wild as long as your having fun.
I also made it clear that it isn't impressive to other people to break rules to have the power they had, as they're basically god modding for fun. WHich is fine, but don't act like it's suppose to be impressive or epic cause it isn't.
The thing is, other than a few minor house rules, we *aren't* breaking Rules as Written to do this sort of thing... and we aren't using any infinite loops, either... |
|
|
|
Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 21:40:54
|
House rules is still not RAW.
Under offical RAW, none of what you've done is possible. At all.
So why brag?
Just go back to godmodding, and describing how you kill this week's demon lord god rather then go through the motions of pretending to play. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
Edited by - Dracons on 22 Nov 2010 21:46:40 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 22:10:25
|
| Pretending to play is better than pretending to have fun. Use whatever rules work best in your group. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2010 : 22:19:31
|
And it's fine to Godmod if they're having fun. Perfectly alright. I've got a player that wants to play AO, and maybe one day it'll happen.
But call it what it is, and not brag or show off. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
|
|
|
Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 00:37:22
|
| Yes, what we're doing IS possible in RAW. It's just more expensive (way, way more expensive). Basically, you would have to combine, say, Scepters with the magic item combining rules in DMG, and then recharge them after the charges get low (I believe there is a spell that does that). This would let an Artificer be decent at persisting spells on charged items, without having to pay a massive premium to do so (like by using staves, which seem to b e quite overpriced, because they have that minimum caster level of 8 for some reason). |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 23 Nov 2010 00:59:11 |
|
|
|
Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 01:12:40
|
Yeah. Much more expensive. As in, noway you'd do it at level 8. Maybe level 20. Not eight, which is the wealth you should have.
Your not doing anything WRONG by having fun by godmodding, just don't expect praise is all I'm saying. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
|
|
|
Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 01:37:06
|
Well, you could do the basic trick -- what you would have to do, basically, is take as many of the cost mitigation options you could get (there are a ton out there), take craft scepter, use the DMG combining rules, craft scepters of low caster level spells, combine them, use these recharge rules:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041130a
When the charges get low, and use a few combined scepters of low caster level, low level spells, that can specifically be persisted, and do it. If you focused on it, it shouldn't be too hard...
Human: Apprentice (Craftsman)
Feat1: Extend Spell
Feat3: Persistent Spell
Art4: Extraordinary Artisan
Feat6: Favored in Guild
Art8: Legendary Artisan
Feat9: Craft Scepter
Feat12: Magical Artisan - Scepter
That would net you a nice big discount to doing this sort of thing, add to that the fact that you are creating Scepters at a minimum caster level, and it shouldn't be *too* overly hard...
Lessee, the GP discounts would be...
50% from making it yourself.
90% from Apprentice (Craftsman)
75% from Extraordinary Artisan
75% from Magical Artisan
95% from Favored in Guild
So each scepter would cost about 24% the list price to make, which would help mitigate the 1.5x price to make for combining items, as well as the recharge price, or the fact that the group will have to add new to the item. That combined with using low caster level means its possible, for sure, without house rules, except maybe the recharge rules variant. |
|
|
|
Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 02:00:11
|
Still have XP costs to worry about. Only legendary artisan would lower that cost. Plus you have tons of spells that are high level, like spell level 5, but only first level caster, which isn't possible since it's required to be the minimal caster level of said spell level, which is 9th in that case of the 5th spells not first caster level.
What your doing, isn't possible until much higher epic level. Congrats, your epic level gear at level 8 because your the DM's pet and he's doing mounty haul. As long as your having fun, its great. Just it isn't praise worthy or anything of the sort.
Why don't you post the math you guys did, so I can see how else you messed up. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
|
|
|
Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 02:09:47
|
| Well, we've been doing the 'find the lowest level caster of any spell' thing, which the artificer is good at. For example, the artificer is emulating classes like Runescarred Berserker, Nentyar Hunter, Trapsmith, Divine Bard, Mystic Ranger, a bunch of obscure Cleric Domains, Paladin, Adept, Emissary of Brachiel, etc. etc. to get the spells at the lowest possible level. |
|
|
|
Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 02:19:21
|
I'd still like a posted math.
All added up, including NORMAL xp / gp cost, then what you really paid for it. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
|
|
|
Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 02:25:17
|
| Well, we DIDN'T pay this for it, we are using house rules, I'm just saying that it is possible to do the core of what we are doing (get relatively cheap spells to persist, every single day), without house rules, it just takes jumping through lots more hoops. I'm admitting that we used house rules; I still maintain that those house rules are to simplify certain things, and don't, on their own, allow the basic idea to function, and the basic idea CAN function fine without house rules -- it's just more difficult. |
|
|
|
Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 02:53:24
|
So... you basically get to have 24/7 buffs of basically most spells, that you didn't have to pay anything for.
Yeah... that's Godmodding there. That's the cheat I win button being pressed.
Is it possible? Not at your level, and not as RAW anywhere. You used house rules and DM allowanced.
Not something to be proud of. Not at all. That's something you do to say, 4 year olds who play. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
|
|
|
Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2010 : 04:01:09
|
House rules in effect that are relevant to this:
1.) You can make items at a caster level below the minimum level needed to cast a spell, ie, any spell completion item can have a caster level 1 -- the 8 minimum for staves is gone, as is the minimum caster level for wands of high level spells
2.) It is possible to make wondrous items that follow the spell completion rules; for example, you can make Eternal Wands that are spell completion items.
3.) When using UMD to emulate a spell at a given level, the artificer doesn't need to know anything about the class he is getting the spell from (IE, Runescarred Berserker has Cure Moderate Wounds as a 1st level spell).
4.) You can use the Estimating Magic Item values table.
5.) When you combine multiple effects onto an item, each individual effect costs 25% more, rather than 'the next one' of them costing 50% more.
6.) You can make several copies of the same item into an item, for charged items (IE, pay the 25% surcharge to combine two healing belt to have one with 6 charges, but you the way you use the charges doesn't stack if you do this -- you can still only use 3 charges at once with this).
7.) You can use published items as templates for considering similar magical items -- I presented the rules for Schema, Drow Insignia, a few of the specific wondrous items that cast particular spells, Spell Clocks, and Eternal Wands to the DM, and we decided that there would be no particular difficulty creating Wondrous Items that cast spells multiple times per day using the normal wondrous items rules, which most of those options follow--IE, the Drow House Insignia are created by the formula Spell Level X Caster Level x 1800 (as a command word item) / (5/charges per day, which is 1), so the first level spell for Drow House Insignia costs 360, and a 3 times per day item would cost 1080, and 2 times per day would cost 720. The extra 100 gp of eternal wands (A similar eternal wand would cost 820 gp) is traditional, due to the military use for them and that they are relatively 'new', and is basically mlitary contractors pocketing the extra 'expenses'. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Overdoing long-lasting buff spells-hurt the Weave?
Topic Locked
