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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 21:14:11
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IF YOU'RE ONE OF MY PLAYERS GET OUT OF THE THREAD NOW!!! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!
Hail and Well Met,
I'm re-purposing this thread to serve as my way to get sagery feedback on my Realms game. I hope occasionally to come in here to solicit opinions about my game.
The best summary of my game so far can probably be found on the WotC boards, in the journal of one of my players (Ben, who plays a drow-scarred elf invoker, Suriel). His first entry (from back in January) is here: http://community.wizards.com/zephsright/blog/2010/01/28/journal_of_an_elf_invoker_1
They've gone from level 1 to level 7 over the last nine months. That's not so unreasonable, is it? I expect them to be paragon by our one year anniversary.
His most recent entry, ending a major campaign arc, is here--some of the entry contains an adapted summary I wrote as well: http://community.wizards.com/zephsright/blog/2010/10/07/journal_of_an_elf_invoker_13:_a_web_to_catch_a_spider
The campaign has featured numerous characters from my writing (particularly Downshadow), and will feature more.
Next session's title? Lady in Blue Fire
*****
Original entry begins here:
So I'm planning to adapt the 4e Tomb of Horrors adventure (by the esteemed Marmell and Gray) for use in the FR game I'm running. My PCs have a few levels before they're appropriately matched for it, but it never hurts to start the planning early.
I have my own ideas from reading through the book, but I thought I'd post on CK to see if anyone else has ideas. Also because someone else might see this and go "OOOH! I need to do that in my campaign!"
Also IF YOU'RE ONE OF MY PLAYERS GET OUT OF THE THREAD NOW!!! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!
Good then!
So I'm thinking in my game, the great BBEBG behind the adventure--originally billed as Acererak--is really going to be (yeah, you guessed it) Larloch, who has survived the Spellplague as (yes) a demilich. His motivations are also a little different from Acererak's as presented in the book, but the results will be remarkably the same: in the absence of Mystra, Larloch sees an opportunity to become the new god of magic, and so this is his bid to do so.
Obviously, references to core gods throughout the book are going to be converted into Realmsian equivalents. I think Vecna's role (which is fairly substantial) will be taken over by Shar (who makes a great villain), and the Eye of Vecna will actually be some great artifact of Velsharoon.
I'm altering the Tomb of Dead Gods at the end to be a procession of FR dead deities ('cuz gods/goddesses know there are a lot of those), including Nerull = Myrkul, god of Justice = Tyr, etc., etc. I plan on having my PCs fight aspects of dead gods, both good and evil.
So. Other ideas that people have got, to help me with this endeavor?
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 09 Oct 2010 19:32:56
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wintermute27
Learned Scribe
USA
179 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 05:00:31
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I've only dropped the Tomb of Horrors card on my players once before. It was Saturday, March 8th, the day of the late, great E. Gary Gygax's funeral and even though it was only an hour drive from where I was living at the time, we decided as a group that we'd rather play some D&D in his memory instead.
Suffice it to say, there were no survivors.
I haven't had the chance to look through the 4e update to the classic module, so I'm interested in hearing how this goes for your group. One thought I had with your talk of dead gods is that you could also draw from ancient aspects and heresies of the currently active pantheon. (ie Ancient Netherese, Mulharandi, etc.) |
My Current Campaign: The Adventures of the Stonelanders |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 14:19:48
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Me, I'd twist that idea... Make it look like Larloch is trying to become the new deity of magic, but what he's actually doing is trying to stop someone else from doing the same.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 14:28:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Me, I'd twist that idea... Make it look like Larloch is trying to become the new deity of magic, but what he's actually doing is trying to stop someone else from doing the same.
Ditto. Play up the whole "Larloch's special relationship with Mystra" angle and you can have a lot of campaign-fun.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 19:05:22
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Ooh, good idea. I have a twisty mind, and that makes me bow to you, saers!
Tell me more about this "special relationship"--I know a little about it, but I've always known to trust the knowledge/wisdom of loremasters.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 00:27:30
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Sometimes the best way to prevent someone from doing something is to do it yourself first - its a classic trope (stealing an item ahead of 'the bad guy', "head them off at the pass", Drop the ring of power into the volcano, etc...)
So it sounds to me that it could work both ways - Larloch may not want to be the god of magic, but he may just be trying for it before someone else grabs the mantle, like a 'stewardship'.
I would think Velsharoon would make a closer analogy to Vecna, but its your call. Shar may be better just because of the 'star value' (Velsharoon was never a major player). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 02:43:16
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Special Relationship:
N various websites and such, Larloch has been given a copy of the
1st set of the Nether Scrolls by Mystra for services delivered.
Maybe Larloch has used his memory stealing portals to distribute custom
spells their creator would not have otherwise let out, maybe he has placed
his own custom spells in places that other would find, like a Chosen would.
How many would-be villians has he destroyed in the world? What is possible for
hundreds of spellcasting undead to do in one ritual all together?
Maybe he guards against an ancient threat (as Ed has stated) that is directly against magic
in Faerun. It has been said in the forums that because of his level of knowledge of the
Weave, Mystra and Azuth had to come to a special understanding with him. Im sorry
I would deliver more if I had my Larloch file with me.
Erik, are u talking about Return to the Tomb of Horrors? I thought the
original didn't have the becoming part of the Negative Plane angle. Just a dungeon crawl? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 03:16:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Ooh, good idea. I have a twisty mind, and that makes me bow to you, saers!
Tell me more about this "special relationship"--I know a little about it, but I've always known to trust the knowledge/wisdom of loremasters.
Cheers
It's never been specifically referenced, though if you perform a 'Larloch-centric' search of scrolls here at Candlekeep, you'll find plenty of past discussion on the subject
As it is from an "official" standpoint, some of Ed's replies on the subject would seem to suggest that Larloch is somewhat beyond the powers and perceptions of Mystra's Chosen. A few of Larloch's plots are "so wide-reaching, complicated, and clandestine that virtually no one in the Realms [including the Chosen] knows what they are." This could imply that Larloch simply occupies a "special position" that is all his own -- and not something that can be easily categorised with respect to his relationship with Mystra.
My own current theory on how Larloch relates to Mystra is as follows:-
quote:
Perhaps Larloch is a First-Generation Chosen -- a kind of precursor to the current Chosen-model [and Second-Generation versions] that was eventually granted to Elminster, Storm, Khelben, and the rest. Maybe Larloch's reliance on undeath was the ONLY way he could maintain his essence and power at that time, long before the Lady of Mysteries perfected the method of safely ensuring her power could allow for the kind of divinely-inspired immortality that the Second-Generation Chosen now enjoy.
Larloch could, theoretically, represent an earlier version of the Chosen -- which satisfies the long-debated point of just what his relationship is with Mystra and, also, why the events of "Tears So White" had such an impact upon him.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 04:18:39
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Good theory, Sage, too bad we cant get more info
from the Bearded One. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 04:23:14
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Thanks guys! The ideas are great--keep 'em coming.
quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
Erik, are u talking about Return to the Tomb of Horrors? I thought the
original didn't have the becoming part of the Negative Plane angle. Just a dungeon crawl?
I'm talking about this: http://www.amazon.com/Tomb-Horrors-4th-Super-Adventure/dp/0786954914
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So it sounds to me that it could work both ways - Larloch may not want to be the god of magic, but he may just be trying for it before someone else grabs the mantle, like a 'stewardship'.
That's a definite possibility.  He might also not be trying to become a god at all--that's just what the characters think for the beginning of the adventures--but rather that he is trying to head off another entity at the pass (such as a returned Myrkul).
quote:
I would think Velsharoon would make a closer analogy to Vecna, but its your call. Shar may be better just because of the 'star value' (Velsharoon was never a major player).
Well, it's mostly because Velsharoon doesn't seem to exist any more in 4e--at least not in any state of power. I do plan to utilize him in some way, however.
So a couple places for substitutions:
I was thinking about setting the Garden of Graves (chapter 1) in vanished Evermeet (you know, in the Feywild), where the undead are actually presenting a real threat to the elven homeland. Rather than invite the races of the Realms to their refuge, however, the elves/eladrin of Evermeet are recruiting my PCs alone, who have strong recommendations going for them (more detail on that as the campaign unfolds).
The Tomb of Shadows I can just do as-is, as I think Moil, the City That Waits, makes great sense for a Realms game. I might tie it to Netheril in some way, as well.
I was also thinking that a good stand-in for Skull City (chapter 3) is actually the necropolis in Thay. Wouldn't that be a cool adventure site for 17th-18th level characters?
Dead Gods' Tomb (chapter 4) is obviously all about Myrkul, the Lord of Bones, and takes place in his former digs.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 19:54:31
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| Acererak was a priest of Orcus, I would utilize Zhengyi from Vaasa instead. What if Aumvor from Champions of Ruins became a demilich, what what would he look like :) |
z455t |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 20:37:32
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"Oh no! It's the Floating Thighbone of Doom!"
Or maybe the Metacarpal... You can at least club someone over the head with a thighbone... |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 20:48:26
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quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
Special Relationship:
<chop>
Maybe he guards against an ancient threat (as Ed has stated) that is directly against magic
in Faerun. It has been said in the forums that because of his level of knowledge of the
Weave, Mystra and Azuth had to come to a special understanding with him. Im sorry
I would deliver more if I had my Larloch file with me.
 Larloch file? Can you email me a copy when you get back to it? Please and thank you. 
quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
Erik, are u talking about Return to the Tomb of Horrors? I thought the
original didn't have the becoming part of the Negative Plane angle. Just a dungeon crawl?
That's correct; I've played through the original as a player, DM'ed it once on its own, and DM'ed the Return to the Tomb of Horrors as the penultimate quest in my final 2E campaign, which I capped off with the Apocalypse Stone. The party were all into the late 20's level-wise by the time it wrapped up.
I haven't looked at the 4E version; is it a reboot, or does it expand further on the Return boxed set from 2E? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 21:00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
I haven't looked at the 4E version; is it a reboot, or does it expand further on the Return boxed set from 2E?
Not being familiar with the 2e set, I can't really say. It is billed as a reimagining of the crypt, but it's clearly *after* Acererak's schemes have been thwarted (at least in some respect).
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2010 : 02:10:53
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Jakk, all it is is a compiled file of Ed's answers from here
and some other comments from the forums as well. If u still want
it I'll send it, but its not all that impressive. |
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My Forgotten Realms Campaign
