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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 04:02:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Quite a few present and former FR authors write Star War novels as well, but that doesn't mean I want to discuss them here at Candlekeep. I admit, I don't frequent these halls as much as I used to, but I'd hate to see this site stray from its Realms focus. The fact that the question is even being asked is telling in of itself.
I understand what you are saying completely Brian, however I also must disagree with you. The Forgotten Realms has portals to so many worlds; why would it be wrong to explore the goings on of those other worlds?
However, agreeing with you somewhat, I see that should Candlekeep "spread itself around" then it may lose its unique flavor that many of us come here for.
I still vote yes; but as some have said, I would prefer that anything "not of the Realms" be given its own shelf so that it not be mixed with Realms novels. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 05:14:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Quite a few present and former FR authors write Star War novels as well, but that doesn't mean I want to discuss them here at Candlekeep. I admit, I don't frequent these halls as much as I used to, but I'd hate to see this site stray from its Realms focus. The fact that the question is even being asked is telling in of itself.
The difference is that we don't have FR authors creating Star Wars from the ground up -- they're playing in an existing sandbox, one that's already had decades of work. Golarion, on the other hand, is a new setting, and many of the most respected names from FR material -- including Ed himself -- have been a part of that new setting. On top of that, a lot of FR fans are fans of Golarion.
I'm not pulling for throwing the doors open to discuss anything and everything... It is simply my opinion that Golarion's youth and the number of FR vets producing material for it make it quite unlike any other setting out there, and that it's an inheritor of the things that made the Realms such a great setting. It's almost like Golarion is Toril's younger sibling: younger, not quite the same, but shaped by the same hands and having much in common with its older sibling. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 07:49:20
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| I echo the Wooly one in this. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 08:14:33
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I'm all for it. Just as soon as I can pry Prince of Wolves from the Sage's book shelf.
See, it's the whole 'dog ears versus bookmarker' debate again. Sage doesn't believe that 'dog-earring' a page is acceptable for his novels.  |
"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Lady Kazandra on 14 Aug 2010 08:15:49 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 15:53:34
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I also want to clarify that I'm not wanting this site to become a forum dedicated to both Golarion and the Realms equally... Mainly, I'm wanting to give Golarion the same treatment we give to D&D Core stuff -- and that's a section of the forums we've had for a long time.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 16:38:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
I'm all for it. Just as soon as I can pry Prince of Wolves from the Sage's book shelf.
See, it's the whole 'dog ears versus bookmarker' debate again. Sage doesn't believe that 'dog-earring' a page is acceptable for his novels.
I'm sorry, but I've just never encountered any positive benefits when it comes to your "dog-earring" policy. And with your trend of only reading a few pages a day... my books tend to fare not-so-well.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 16:39:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I also want to clarify that I'm not wanting this site to become a forum dedicated to both Golarion and the Realms equally... Mainly, I'm wanting to give Golarion the same treatment we give to D&D Core stuff -- and that's a section of the forums we've had for a long time.
Exactly.
Since PATHFINDER was largely founded on the basis of 3.5e, and it's still largely a valid rules-set, it has a place for discussion here, like all elements based on the OGL of 3e. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 14 Aug 2010 16:41:44 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2010 : 13:30:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I also want to clarify that I'm not wanting this site to become a forum dedicated to both Golarion and the Realms equally... Mainly, I'm wanting to give Golarion the same treatment we give to D&D Core stuff -- and that's a section of the forums we've had for a long time.
I would be ok with that, put the Pathfinder Book blub in the D&D core scroll or anyplace of it's own....just dont lump them in with our current book club...I am totally against that. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 20:54:01
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| Can somebody give me a quick "what is Pathfinder"...suited for someone who knows nothing about the setting as I do? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Hooch9
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 21:53:18
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I've played Pathfinder a few times. I like it a bit more than traditional D&D 3/3.5. It feels a bit more balanced in some aspects, but not all. It feels like more of a mod for D&D. Some differences include assassins that don't cast magic, and Paladins that use lay on hands can add bonuses to that ability as they level up (restore fatigue, cure poison, etc.). Also, just about any class (regular or prestige) in the original D&D can be integrated into Pathfinder (though certain changes that are specific to Pathfinder will have to be applied).
Having only played the game a few times, I don't know much about the lore of Pathfinder. However, I'd be in favor of the Pathfinder book club just for the fact that I'd like to learn more about the lore. |
Sheriff: Oh one other thing Earlie. Your boy needs to be in school.
Earlie Cuyler: School? Ain't dat da damn place where they got all dem uhh lets see, whatcha call um uhh? Fold outs covered in scriblins wrote up all over.
Earlie Cuyler: uhh? Books?
Earlie Cuyler: uh-uh, uh-uh, No they square like a magazine.
Sheriff: Books Earlie.
Earlie Cuyler: Noo not not that, but something like that, I wanna say boooooo...
"Don't you start with me. I have hobbies. I collect autographs. I don't Judge you for all those books you read!"
-Both of those quotes are from Squidbillies. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 00:52:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Can somebody give me a quick "what is Pathfinder"...suited for someone who knows nothing about the setting as I do?
Here's the general story:
Paizo began publishing Dragon and Dungeon magazine for Wizards of the Coast in 2002, so WotC/Hasbro could focus more on the game instead of the magazines (although the canonization of articles in the magazines remained the same). Beginning in 2003, Paizo began publishing "Adventure Paths" in Dungeon. These were a series of connected adventures that, when ran together, would take the adventuring party from 1st through epic levels. The three paths (Shackled City, Age of Worms and Savage Tide) were extremely popular with the fans, with Shackled City even being sold as a collected hardback book.
When WotC decided they were going to move forward with 4th Edition, they decided to pull the license from Paizo in order to bring the magazines back in house (and make them 100% digital). When this was decided, Eric Mona (publisher for Paizo) and Lisa Stevens (CEO of Paizo) weren't sure whether or not they were going to stay in the business. Paizo decided to begin publishing Adventure Paths directly using the d20 OGL and set in their own campaign world of Golarion. The first AP, Rise of the Runelords was debuted in August of 2007 -- the same time WotC officially announced they were going to be releasing 4th edition in 2008.
Now, Paizo had another conundrum. They had already published the first part in a six-part Adventure Path, and WotC had just announced that the OGL rules would be unsupported within a year. Over the next few months, Paizo tried to find out more about the new rules to and what a third-party publisher would need to sell materials using the newest edition. Unfortunately for WotC (but fortunately for us Pathfinder fans), WotC decided to not release any details for the newest edition to third party companies AND released in the press that third party vendors would get the information the same time as gamers buying the book in the stores. In effect, that meant that if third party publishers wanted to release material for 4th Edition, they would (in most cases) NOT be able to release that material in time for GenCon, and miss out on sales at the convention (meaning WotC would have a monopoly for the convention on 4th Edition material).
With a lot of fan support and the backing that the 3rd Edition OGL was not going to lapse with the release of 4th Edition, Paizo decided to take another tact: They were going to develop and publish an entire rules system based on 3rd Edition, but with enough changes to be able to call it their own. The first step in their mad plan was to open the entire thing up to an epic playtest, the likes of which have never been seen in the gaming industry.
Jason Bulmahn began the process, taking and breaking down the 3.5 rules and determining where they were broken, where they needed tweaking and where they were fine. He went to the fans themselves, offering free PDFs of the game for them to download, use, destroy and rebuild; then come onto the Paizo forums and discuss the problems, offer suggestions and work out what was needed. With over 50,000 downloads of the beta rules, then the alpha playtest rules, and almost an entire year of playtesting, they finally released the Pathfinder Rules at GenCon 2009.
The Campaign Setting of Golarion shared an almost equally dazzling history. Beginning with Sandpoint in Rise of the Runelords, players were first introduced to the setting with the ruin-choked wilderness of Varisia. In the next adventure path, Curse of the Crimson Throne, PCs adventured in the city of Korvosa. With two APs under their belt and a third one on the way (Second Darkness, detailing the Drow in Golarion and set in the Underdark), Paizo released their Campaign Setting hardcover under the OGL in August of 2008, the same time WotC released the Forgotten Realms sourcebooks.
The Campaign Setting is, in my ever-so-humble opinion, one of those setting books you get that is perfect in every way. Using freelance talent from all over (including our illustrious resident rock-star Mr. Greenwood, plus Keith Baker, Wolfgang Baur, Jeff Grubb, Erik Mona, Sean K. Reynolds, and a host of others), it gave enough detail on the numerous different regions of Golarion to pique your interest, but not too much that you didn't have a lot of wiggle room. With everything from devil-worshipping Cheliax, to freedom-fighting Andoran; from oriental-based Tian Xia to land of super-science Numeria; a DM and his players can spend decades exploring the world and not be found wanting (and if you do find yourself wanting, there's brief blurbs on the OTHER 11 planets of the sphere/solar system).
Which, I think, is why it's become such a hit with Forgotten Realms fans, because it seems to be Abeir-Toril's planetary sister. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 13:43:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Can somebody give me a quick "what is Pathfinder"...suited for someone who knows nothing about the setting as I do?
Here's the general story:
Paizo began publishing Dragon and Dungeon magazine for Wizards of the Coast in 2002, so WotC/Hasbro could focus more on the game instead of the magazines (although the canonization of articles in the magazines remained the same). Beginning in 2003, Paizo began publishing "Adventure Paths" in Dungeon. These were a series of connected adventures that, when ran together, would take the adventuring party from 1st through epic levels. The three paths (Shackled City, Age of Worms and Savage Tide) were extremely popular with the fans, with Shackled City even being sold as a collected hardback book.
When WotC decided they were going to move forward with 4th Edition, they decided to pull the license from Paizo in order to bring the magazines back in house (and make them 100% digital). When this was decided, Eric Mona (publisher for Paizo) and Lisa Stevens (CEO of Paizo) weren't sure whether or not they were going to stay in the business. Paizo decided to begin publishing Adventure Paths directly using the d20 OGL and set in their own campaign world of Golarion. The first AP, Rise of the Runelords was debuted in August of 2007 -- the same time WotC officially announced they were going to be releasing 4th edition in 2008.
Now, Paizo had another conundrum. They had already published the first part in a six-part Adventure Path, and WotC had just announced that the OGL rules would be unsupported within a year. Over the next few months, Paizo tried to find out more about the new rules to and what a third-party publisher would need to sell materials using the newest edition. Unfortunately for WotC (but fortunately for us Pathfinder fans), WotC decided to not release any details for the newest edition to third party companies AND released in the press that third party vendors would get the information the same time as gamers buying the book in the stores. In effect, that meant that if third party publishers wanted to release material for 4th Edition, they would (in most cases) NOT be able to release that material in time for GenCon, and miss out on sales at the convention (meaning WotC would have a monopoly for the convention on 4th Edition material).
With a lot of fan support and the backing that the 3rd Edition OGL was not going to lapse with the release of 4th Edition, Paizo decided to take another tact: They were going to develop and publish an entire rules system based on 3rd Edition, but with enough changes to be able to call it their own. The first step in their mad plan was to open the entire thing up to an epic playtest, the likes of which have never been seen in the gaming industry.
Jason Bulmahn began the process, taking and breaking down the 3.5 rules and determining where they were broken, where they needed tweaking and where they were fine. He went to the fans themselves, offering free PDFs of the game for them to download, use, destroy and rebuild; then come onto the Paizo forums and discuss the problems, offer suggestions and work out what was needed. With over 50,000 downloads of the beta rules, then the alpha playtest rules, and almost an entire year of playtesting, they finally released the Pathfinder Rules at GenCon 2009.
The Campaign Setting of Golarion shared an almost equally dazzling history. Beginning with Sandpoint in Rise of the Runelords, players were first introduced to the setting with the ruin-choked wilderness of Varisia. In the next adventure path, Curse of the Crimson Throne, PCs adventured in the city of Korvosa. With two APs under their belt and a third one on the way (Second Darkness, detailing the Drow in Golarion and set in the Underdark), Paizo released their Campaign Setting hardcover under the OGL in August of 2008, the same time WotC released the Forgotten Realms sourcebooks.
The Campaign Setting is, in my ever-so-humble opinion, one of those setting books you get that is perfect in every way. Using freelance talent from all over (including our illustrious resident rock-star Mr. Greenwood, plus Keith Baker, Wolfgang Baur, Jeff Grubb, Erik Mona, Sean K. Reynolds, and a host of others), it gave enough detail on the numerous different regions of Golarion to pique your interest, but not too much that you didn't have a lot of wiggle room. With everything from devil-worshipping Cheliax, to freedom-fighting Andoran; from oriental-based Tian Xia to land of super-science Numeria; a DM and his players can spend decades exploring the world and not be found wanting (and if you do find yourself wanting, there's brief blurbs on the OTHER 11 planets of the sphere/solar system).
Which, I think, is why it's become such a hit with Forgotten Realms fans, because it seems to be Abeir-Toril's planetary sister.
Cool!
How about a cliff notes on Golarion? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 06:03:20
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| And if you look in the Golarion scroll, starting on page 5 there is an overview and review of the campaign setting by Kuje continuing on the following pages. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 20:44:27
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| @Sage - I hope the decision on this is not on your to-do list, or we will never not what it is. =) |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 01:58:13
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
@Sage - I hope the decision on this is not on your to-do list, or we will never not what it is. =)
No, I'm just waiting for my copy to arrive. It's been delayed. Again.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 04:04:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
No, I'm just waiting for my copy to arrive. It's been delayed. Again.
I'm sorry, Sage, that is sad that your copy hasn't arrived yet.  |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 04:13:30
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
No, I'm just waiting for my copy to arrive. It's been delayed. Again.
I'm sorry, Sage, that is sad that your copy hasn't arrived yet.
No worries. I'm almost at the point where I might just purchase the PDF *because* I can't wait any longer. 
...
As an aside, can any faithful reader provide me with the chapter breakdowns for the book, and whether it has a prologue/epilogue? Then I can open the Book Club scrolls. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 19:49:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Quite a few present and former FR authors write Star War novels as well, but that doesn't mean I want to discuss them here at Candlekeep. I admit, I don't frequent these halls as much as I used to, but I'd hate to see this site stray from its Realms focus. The fact that the question is even being asked is telling in of itself.
Agreed. My vote is no.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 05:45:13
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| I would love this. I don't read the realms books anymore because they all take place post spellplague. |
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 13:07:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
I don't read the realms books anymore because they all take place post spellplague.
Even the ones by Ed? Hmm, I think you should give it a try. There are several books in 4E that have received quite LOUD, positive reviews. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 14:14:54
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
I don't read the realms books anymore because they all take place post spellplague.
Even the ones by Ed? Hmm, I think you should give it a try. There are several books in 4E that have received quite LOUD, positive reviews.
I've tried a couple of them myself, and what was done to the setting kept getting in the way of my enjoyment of the story.
Besides, several Realms books from previous eras have gotten loud positive reviews, and I still couldn't stand them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 14:57:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
I don't read the realms books anymore because they all take place post spellplague.
Even the ones by Ed? Hmm, I think you should give it a try. There are several books in 4E that have received quite LOUD, positive reviews.
I've tried a couple of them myself, and what was done to the setting kept getting in the way of my enjoyment of the story.
Besides, several Realms books from previous eras have gotten loud positive reviews, and I still couldn't stand them.
You're painting a dreary picture, my friend. Perhaps I can splash some bright hues on it?
I think, as I always mention whenever a seemingly unbridgeable difference/clash of interests in reading certain books occurs, it does come down to one thing: preference. One of my best(crazy)friends have long been pestering me to try reading more, if not all, of Piers Anthony's novels. But I couldn't stand them. Though my bestfriend and I usually have the same taste in books, Piers is absolutely one of the very rare exceptions. Same applies to some Realms novels. Most books where the cockroach Manshoon and the (lousy) Zhents are featured I doggedly avoid. And regardless of editions, most books by PSK, EG, and RLB I devour.
There are some books that elicit a mixture of fascination and dislike from the reader. We simply have to focus on the good and try to forget that the bad exists at all. An example is Red Magic. While I really detest the Harpers featured in that book, I like how Thay was described; how Maligor worked his arse to fulfill his ambitions; and how Szass Tam enacted his schemes behind the scenes. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 15:13:20
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| So it basically comes down to personal preference. I like some of the new post spellplague books, others might like all of them, and then again some might not enjoy them at all. My advice; read it and make up your own mind. |
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Lord of Bones
Seeker
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 15:42:04
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| My vote is yes. I love the Forgotten Realms, but I also love Pathfinder. I say we have the best of both worlds. |
Come watch the Gentleman's Guide to Gaming!
http://www.youtube.com/user/clackclickbang
On my channel I review and dissect role-playing games with great gusto. Please do take a look and let me know what you think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 16:00:03
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
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Originally posted by Mournblade
I don't read the realms books anymore because they all take place post spellplague.
Even the ones by Ed? Hmm, I think you should give it a try. There are several books in 4E that have received quite LOUD, positive reviews.
I've tried a couple of them myself, and what was done to the setting kept getting in the way of my enjoyment of the story.
Besides, several Realms books from previous eras have gotten loud positive reviews, and I still couldn't stand them.
You're painting a dreary picture, my friend. Perhaps I can splash some bright hues on it?
I think, as I always mention whenever a seemingly unbridgeable difference/clash of interests in reading certain books occurs, it does come down to one thing: preference. One of my best(crazy)friends have long been pestering me to try reading more, if not all, of Piers Anthony's novels. But I couldn't stand them. Though my bestfriend and I usually have the same taste in books, Piers is absolutely one of the very rare exceptions. Same applies to some Realms novels. Most books where the cockroach Manshoon and the (lousy) Zhents are featured I doggedly avoid. And regardless of editions, most books by PSK, EG, and RLB I devour.
There are some books that elicit a mixture of fascination and dislike from the reader. We simply have to focus on the good and try to forget that the bad exists at all. An example is Red Magic. While I really detest the Harpers featured in that book, I like how Thay was described; how Maligor worked his arse to fulfill his ambitions; and how Szass Tam enacted his schemes behind the scenes.
The problem is that setting is a very important part of a story. My dislike for what was done to the Realms means that I can't read stories in that new setting without that dislike intruding. The problem is not the stories themselves; the problem is that setting and story are intertwined elements, and dislike of one keeps me from enjoying the other.
I've had the same problem with some movies: I thought the way the story was told was very clever and creative, but my dislike of the story keeps me from enjoying it. I couldn't stand "Shakespeare in Love" because I hate the tale of Romeo and Juliet. I thought it was a very creative way to tell the story, perhaps even brilliant -- but I still hate the story itself. "Sliding Doors" was inflicted on me once... Great idea with the intertwined, parallel stories -- but both stories failed to interest me.
A better example: the story of the farm boy who yearns for adventure, finds out he's the heir to some legacy, gathers some companions and defeats some great evil. It's a story that's been told countless times, in countless ways. You could set it in ancient China or any number of fantasy worlds... The story remains good and enjoyable. But start that tale with the sweeping music of John Williams and a battle over the skies of Tatooine, and you've got something new and remarkable. The farmboy, the grinning rogue, the attractive noblewoman, the mystic swordsman... All standard tropes, but they were set apart and made more noteworthy by the setting. The movie version of "Eragon" is the exact same story (I've not read the book, and have no opinion on it), but the setting didn't wow everyone, so we don't have an entire empire (pardon the pun!) built from that tale.
Characters are important. Story is important. Setting is important. If two of those elements are good, the third can make the difference between good, meh, awful or remarkable. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2010 : 17:09:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
I don't read the realms books anymore because they all take place post spellplague.
Even the ones by Ed? Hmm, I think you should give it a try. There are several books in 4E that have received quite LOUD, positive reviews.
I've tried a couple of them myself, and what was done to the setting kept getting in the way of my enjoyment of the story.
Besides, several Realms books from previous eras have gotten loud positive reviews, and I still couldn't stand them.
You're painting a dreary picture, my friend. Perhaps I can splash some bright hues on it?
I think, as I always mention whenever a seemingly unbridgeable difference/clash of interests in reading certain books occurs, it does come down to one thing: preference. One of my best(crazy)friends have long been pestering me to try reading more, if not all, of Piers Anthony's novels. But I couldn't stand them. Though my bestfriend and I usually have the same taste in books, Piers is absolutely one of the very rare exceptions. Same applies to some Realms novels. Most books where the cockroach Manshoon and the (lousy) Zhents are featured I doggedly avoid. And regardless of editions, most books by PSK, EG, and RLB I devour.
There are some books that elicit a mixture of fascination and dislike from the reader. We simply have to focus on the good and try to forget that the bad exists at all. An example is Red Magic. While I really detest the Harpers featured in that book, I like how Thay was described; how Maligor worked his arse to fulfill his ambitions; and how Szass Tam enacted his schemes behind the scenes.
The problem is that setting is a very important part of a story. My dislike for what was done to the Realms means that I can't read stories in that new setting without that dislike intruding. The problem is not the stories themselves; the problem is that setting and story are intertwined elements, and dislike of one keeps me from enjoying the other.
I've had the same problem with some movies: I thought the way the story was told was very clever and creative, but my dislike of the story keeps me from enjoying it. I couldn't stand "Shakespeare in Love" because I hate the tale of Romeo and Juliet. I thought it was a very creative way to tell the story, perhaps even brilliant -- but I still hate the story itself. "Sliding Doors" was inflicted on me once... Great idea with the intertwined, parallel stories -- but both stories failed to interest me.
A better example: the story of the farm boy who yearns for adventure, finds out he's the heir to some legacy, gathers some companions and defeats some great evil. It's a story that's been told countless times, in countless ways. You could set it in ancient China or any number of fantasy worlds... The story remains good and enjoyable. But start that tale with the sweeping music of John Williams and a battle over the skies of Tatooine, and you've got something new and remarkable. The farmboy, the grinning rogue, the attractive noblewoman, the mystic swordsman... All standard tropes, but they were set apart and made more noteworthy by the setting. The movie version of "Eragon" is the exact same story (I've not read the book, and have no opinion on it), but the setting didn't wow everyone, so we don't have an entire empire (pardon the pun!) built from that tale.
Characters are important. Story is important. Setting is important. If two of those elements are good, the third can make the difference between good, meh, awful or remarkable.
I say it also depends on the intensity of your dislike as opposed to what you like in a book. If the good elements overshadow the bad, then I can continue reading; but if 'tis otherwise, then there's no way I will bother to continue. Much like Crown of Fire. I think I'd expressed it countless times (that is, if anyone bothers to count them) how much I love the Realms' ultimate cockroach. I almost gave up the book when I reached the middle, but Shan and El's exploits are too much to miss. So I went on.
I agree that the setting is an essential ingredient of the story. But how much do you dislike the setting? Is your dislike with it too Brobdingnagian that it sweeps away your favor with the amazing characters of the story? If the answer is yes, then it's a sad thing indeed. All elements are supposed to work and mesh to bring about an excellent, unforgettable story. However, if some elements fail, we can focus on those that work well. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2010 : 05:04:09
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
I agree that the setting is an essential ingredient of the story. But how much do you dislike the setting? Is your dislike with it too Brobdingnagian that it sweeps away your favor with the amazing characters of the story? If the answer is yes, then it's a sad thing indeed. All elements are supposed to work and mesh to bring about an excellent, unforgettable story. However, if some elements fail, we can focus on those that work well.
I've liked the characters, but for me, the feel of the setting has changed dramatically. In my opinion, the Realms of 4E has much of the same dark and dystopian feel of Shadowrun -- without the cool cyberpunk elements or the intriguing backstory. This contrasts so strongly with what the setting was that I am continuously aware of it. And this awareness keeps me from being immersed in the story, because I'm constantly reminded of the setting. It's like doing a favored activity while nauseated or experiencing a bad headache -- no matter how much you enjoy what you're doing, you can't get past how you're feeling. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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PATHFINDER fiction -- 'Book Club' poll
