| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 22:46:57
|
From another discussion I stumbled upon a thread on the Eberron boards at the WotC forums here on page 3 or so: Second half of the year good for Eberron?
I saw this quick exchange (cut out their unrelated other discussions):
quote:
Originally posted by juanpierre on the Wizards boards
I have to say that one thing I love about Eberron is that goblins aren't simply the raiders just over the hill ready to attack the town at level 1. They have history and depth and... honor. I love that.
quote:
Originally posted by Ogiwan on the Wizards boards
Don't even get me started on how Eberron is more accepting to races, and thus offers much more flexibility. Several of my posts on the "Eberron or FR?" thread on the 4e General board is about how FR is really racist and generally bad in regards to monsterous races. My current irritation is the first paragraph of the section on Goblins from the FR Player's Guide: "Wandering tribes of goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears dwell throughout Faerūn. They are widely regarded as unintelligent and uncivilized, deserving attention only for the sake of eradicating them."
It's been a while since we've had a "defend the Realms" discussion (I miss the old days).
Off the top of my head, I can name some humanoid kingdoms (orcs, ogres, trolls) and goodish/okay orcs and the like, but goblinkind doesn't seem to feature as prominently as the other humanoid races. I can't think of any, but I'm sure there are.
Here are the obvious counter-examples of humanoids that managed to hold a kingdom together for a time:
- Kingdom of Many-Arrows, King Obould's kingdom in the north
- The Sythillisian Empire centered around Murann
- Theskan Orcs
- The old orc realm of Vastar
Some non-savage humanoid characters:
- Bakra from the Champions of Valor book
- Shield of Innocence, orog paladin from the War in Tethyr
- The orcs who fought in Azoun's crusade against the Tuigan Horde.
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 02:11:16
|
Hlundadim was a Goblin Kingdom that existed in the Goblin Marches during the early years of Cormyr. It invaded Cormyr, although it can be argued that the lands the horde entered were not then really part of Cormyr (northern king's forest) at that time. They were eventually driven into the Stonelands, and when the desert took its toll on the area they spread west into the Sunset vale, only to be finally defeated at the Battle of Bones.
The Grodd (city) Goblins were once part of a Goblin Kingdom, before that city was 'wisked away' into a demi-plane linked to Cormyr. Ostensibly, they were from a great, past empire of goblins in Cormyr. They may have been linked to the Hlundadim Goblins, but it appears their origins are somewhat more ancient. A bit confusing where to fit them in, because we know the Elves ruled the area previous to the humans, and the Purple dragon Thauglor before that. They appear to be fairly advanced for goblins, intelligent, and disciplined.
Before it was a "Great, gray land", Thar was an Ogre kingdom (not to be confused with the orc kingdom of the same name in Mystara). According to pg.17 of Elminster's Ecologies on the region, "...the few artifacts left behind by the ancient kingdom of Thar prove then to be a surprisingly sophisticated race." There also the fairly intelligent and organized Ice Spire Ogres (related?)
To the south, west, and possibly north of that region, there was also a kingdom of Gnolls at some point (around the area of Frozen Flindyke). Flinds still occupy the region, in that huge mountain to the far north that disappeared in 2e IIRC.
The Vast used to be the Orc Kingom of Vastar, which appears to have been a contemporary of Hlundim and Thar.
Start to see a pattern here?
The Goblinoids are only 'the bad guys' because humans (and others) write history - it is always written by 'the winners'. From all appearances, the Heartlands were primarily in Goblinoid (using the broader term here to include Ogres and Orcs as well) hands around the time of Netheril. The might of the Netherease broke the power of the Goblinoids over the north, opening the door for future expansion by Chondathans, Uthgardt, Mulan, and Raumathari-related peoples into the Heartlands. So what you have their is a technologically superior people taking land from a more primitive culture, something that has happened many times in the RW.
HOWEVER, bits and pieces of FR history indicate a VERY early presence of humans in the North and the heartlands (the Talfir, for example), so it may have just been a case of the pendulum-like way history has of swinging back and forth, and both species - humanoids and demi-humans - have valid claims to the region.
Further afield, in both time and geography, we had the Kobolds of Zexthandrim in the Mountains of Copper, and the primordial southern Gnoll Empire of Urgnarash (which was a contemporary of the Creator-Races!)
It appears that human and humanoid civilizations have risen and fallen over and over again, all across Toril.
|
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 16 Jul 2010 22:21:49 |
 |
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 03:13:05
|
I stumbled upon this from Candlekeep's very own archives upon a quick search.
Goblins of the Realms by Maglubiyet
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/goblins.htm#grodd
I seem to recall a hobgoblin kingdom somewhere in the Unapproachable East region, conquered by one of the big magical human empires of the area and now a footnote in history. Likewise one or two in the Cold Lands/Demonlands.
If we're expanding monstrous races to include non-human, non-demi-humans the creator races puts most of the human or elven empires to shame. Some of them still exist in some form, particularly the Sarrukh related ones. Yuan-Ti and other serpentine beings as well as lizardfolk of various types seem to have a huge presence and influence in the Realms. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 03:57:46
|
If we were to go to the realms below, we would probably come up with an even more extensive list of Humanoid civilizations.
There was also that group that built that giant totemic statue somewhere in the Lands of Intrigue.
And now that I've mentioned that region, there was also a beholder-Empire all around the Lake of Steam.
And yes, all throughout the Chultan Peninsula there are, and have been, numerous serpent realms. There still is the secret realm of Serpentes right in the middle of the western heartlands!
There are also primitive tribes of Goblins in both Chult and Maztica. Although not quite what we are looking for, the other primtive peoples of those regions - including humans - do not regard them any less barabaric then they, themselves. Another example of this 'mutual exceptance is in The North among the Uthgardt barbarians, many tribes of which consider the orc tribes their equals, and even intermarry, and several tribes have large numbers of half-Orcs as a result.
And speakking of marriage and the LoI box - check out Purskul on pg.33 of the Amn booklet. A human town with many hard-working orcs, who even inter-marry with the local humans and are treated as equals.
And speaking of half-Orc towns that no-one bats an eye at, we have both Palischuk in Vaasa, and Airspur (pre-4e) down in the Old Empires, which even has a half-orc 'lord' ruling the place.
There is also the mixed-monster kingdom of Veldorn, and all the undersea non-human kingdoms (such as Sahuagin Aleaxtis in the Alamber sea).
I doubt we have even scratched the surface...
EDIT:quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
Comments like the one above is why real-world politics are better left to other fora.
Not to mention the large number of trolls that dwell on the Internet... 
Attacking everything someone says, in every thread they post in is against the CoC... and a little creepy. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jul 2010 09:09:01 |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 09:09:25
|
Lets not forget Kingdom of Many Arrow's... |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 09:10:36
|
Uh-Doh! {where's our head-smacking smiley?}
Good catch, Brimmy. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 12:34:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Uh-Doh! {where's our head-smacking smiley?}
Good catch, Brimmy.
Dont smack yourself too hard.......the kingdom of many arrows was the OP's first counter-example at the end of his post
Brimmy should have caught that!   |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 23:31:10
|
Ah-Ha! I knew there was a reason I didn't list it! 
I'm pretty sure there were tons of others in various sources - I should read that listing someone else posted earlier. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 11:54:08
|
There's the Gorge of the Fallen Idol realm, the Redfangs batiri, and Haekkrukha (sp?) in Impiltur.
Lol people complain about being racist to monsters, Eberron is hip. |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 12:00:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Uh-Doh! {where's our head-smacking smiley?}
Good catch, Brimmy.
Dont smack yourself too hard.......the kingdom of many arrows was the OP's first counter-example at the end of his post
Brimmy should have caught that!
I really wasn't paying any attention... |
|
|
|
Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 14:09:34
|
In Neverwinter Nights there is a Goblin named Grovel who is running from the underdark (Hordes of the Underdark). He gets a job as a janitor at the Inn. There's a Kobold Bard named Deekin who is an NPC ally in the Shadows of Undrentide Campaign.
I don't remember the exact examples, but I'm sure I've heard reference to shopkeepers in Faerun employing goblins or kobolds as hired help.
I also think I have heard of people who allied with Bugbears or Hobgoblins in an army against a common threat. |
Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
|
|
|
Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1602 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 17:26:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There was also that group that built that giant totemic statue somewhere in the Lands of Intrigue.
That would be the statue of Nomog-Geaya the warrior, the god of hobgoblins, that was destroyed by humasn from Calimshan a ong time ago, in the place now known as "the Gorge of the Fallen Idol" (see Quale's post above). The hobgoblin tribes there spent hundreds of years unchallenged, but I don't know how "civilized" they are (although Nomog-Geaya is a very lawful/militar god). I think there are at least two threads regarding the Gorge here in CK.
|
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 12 Jul 2010 17:31:16 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 23:10:51
|
The Ogre village of Rivenshield is allied with the Gov't of Erlkazar, and helps them eliminate other humanoid threats in the mountains surrounding that land.
In the words of General Vrakk, "If they treat us like monsters, then we BE monsters!"
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Lol people complain about being racist to monsters, Eberron is hip.
One of the many things I admire about that setting.
Back on the WotC boards I tried to start a group called Monsters International Liberation Front, but for some strange reason, M.I.L.F. never really took-off. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jul 2010 23:15:31 |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 23:13:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Lol people complain about being racist to monsters, Eberron is hip.
One of the many things I admire about that setting.
Back on the WotC boards I tried to start a group called Monsters International Liberation Front, but for some strange reason, M.I.L.F. never really took-off.
I like MILF. I can get behind that. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 02:28:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The Ogre village of Rivenshield is allied with the Gov't of Erlkazar, and helps them eliminate other humanoid threats in the mountains surrounding that land.
Of course! From Faces of Deception, how could I let that slip.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Back on the WotC boards I tried to start a group called Monsters International Liberation Front, but for some strange reason, M.I.L.F. never really took-off.
They need a new PR guy to get them a new acronym. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 05:11:23
|
Why?
I had assumed everyone would line-up behind my MILFs. 
Anyway, I have always been a big supporter of monster-rights - I even had a monster city named Gwarch in my original Greyhawk campaign - a locale which made it onto an official FR map I might add.
Maybe I should have a more focused group - perhaps just try to get equal rights for Jermlaine, Orcs, and Kobolds.
Come on people, be a JOK-supporter! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jul 2010 05:11:50 |
|
|
|
Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 09:01:02
|
| I found the thread in question. By my standards I took it rather easy on 'em. ;) |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 09:44:45
|
Good Work Mr.Misc - we can't let these false accusations against the Realms go unchecked!
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Of course! From Faces of Deception, how could I let that slip.
Never read that novel. I read about that town in the Erkazar pamphlet that came in the Lands of Intrigue box. Steven Schend appears to be a fellow monster-sympathizer, going by some of the entries in that box.
And let us not forget the peaceful, Chauntee-worshiping Ondonti living in The Tortured Land, above The Ride - Orc FARMERS, not fighters. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jul 2010 09:48:51 |
|
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 04:25:58
|
I listed some of the ideas brought forth here on the same thread Mr Miscellany indicated. I also pointed them towards my defunct Utility Magic of the Realms thread on the old WotC forums to help dispel some of confusion about magic use in the setting.
I'll add one more monster-oriented settlement:
Surkh in the Vilhon Reach is a Lizard-man town. Population 15,000 as of 2e. They have a (mostly) fish based diet, a lucrative gladiator entertainment industry and schools that will teach the lizard man language which you will need to get an audience with the lizard king. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 20:35:38
|
The Lizardmen in The Great swamp of Rethild have their own kingdom (Kethid), hire-our as mercenaries (the Royal Egg), and are at-peace with the Halruaan gov't, to the point where they have been given three airships!
The Horseshoe Temple Oasis in the Taan (Endless wastes) is home to a peaceful tribe of Goblins, who had dwelt there with the monks (who taught them their religion, and how to live a peaceful existence). The Monks were slain, though, the year before Yamun Kahan invaded Shou Lung, by a band of evil Oni, who have enslaved the Goblins. According to the source, the Goblins would be willing to help adventurers - they are considered neutral-good now.
In one of the Everis Cale novels, they hire a band of Gnolls as guides to a secret lake hidden within the forest of Gulthmere.
It seems fairly obvious to me, that except in 'the Heartlands', most folks are at least willing to give 'monsters' a chance. Some folks in the Heartlands except them as well (Thesk, for instance), but for the most part, they 'shoot first and ask questions later'. That is probably because of the long history of Orc-Hordes - it has really badly tainted people's perceptions of goblinoids.
Too bad about that 'useful items' thread - I recently came-across quite a bit more, including self-warming mugs, stoves that light themselves with a word, and a bunch of other neat stuff.
In fact, anti-scrying trinkets are so damn numerous, every nobles got some, and they are fairly common among the regular folk who can afford them. Anti-poison items run a close second in availability.
There is a 'gunne of wands' in Elminster's Daughter, and El even makes fun of it "in the Lantan style". Basically, a handle with 6 'barrels' like a handgun, but with wands attached instead.
That would probably fall more under the 'magic that helps magic' category though. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jul 2010 22:05:46 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 01:32:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The Lizardmen in The Great swamp of Rethild have their own kingdom (Kethid), hire-our as mercenaries (the Royal Egg), and are at-peace with the Halruaan gov't, to the point where they have been given three airships!
Re: the lizardmen skyships -- As I recall, the older Shining South tome tells us that the Halruaans guard the secrets of their skyships most zealously. As such, I think that you'd probably find that Halruaan wizards have indeed been assigned to "watch over" the skyships given over to the lizardmen -- both as a security measure [to prevent the secrets of the ship from being lost] and to deny the lizardmen from using the skyships in anyway they see fit.
Thus, I would tend to think that while skyships have been sold to the lizardmen, it's actually more about providing Halruaa with an added layer of defence for the region, and less about them being used in battle by the lizardmen. After all, the wizards of Halruaa likely wouldn't consider their treasured skyships, being the valuable military assets that they are, to be something wasted in "just any old battle." They would therefore, I believe, tend to select places of strategic importance around Halruaa itself, which would provide Halruaan armies deployed to such locations, with rapid troop transports and supply convoys, against threats on the borders of their realms, when required. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 22:28:56
|
Not to contradict the most esteemed and knowledgeable Sage, but we see Halruaan-made Skyships belonging to the Durpari (in Darkvision), and in Once Around the Realms, we clearly see there is a 'black market' for them (the decommissioned ones are supposed to be destroyed, but apparently they don't keep very good track of that).
However, I did perhaps inadvertently mislead with that entry, because I was trying to be brief (for once). The entry does state that those Skyships may just be 'loners', and its not even sure if they have them 'legally' - I would go out on a limb here and assume there are differing factions within Halruaa, just as anywhere else, and they are not all 'on the same page'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 16 Jul 2010 22:29:20 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 02:14:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Not to contradict the most esteemed and knowledgeable Sage, but we see Halruaan-made Skyships belonging to the Durpari (in Darkvision), and in Once Around the Realms, we clearly see there is a 'black market' for them (the decommissioned ones are supposed to be destroyed, but apparently they don't keep very good track of that).
However, I did perhaps inadvertently mislead with that entry, because I was trying to be brief (for once). The entry does state that those Skyships may just be 'loners', and its not even sure if they have them 'legally' - I would go out on a limb here and assume there are differing factions within Halruaa, just as anywhere else, and they are not all 'on the same page'.
That, or there were Halruaan "loan-officers" on-hand somewhere, watching. The Halruaans have both the power and ability to ensure such a practice, should the need arise. Their "zealous" protection of the secrets of skyships means, from my point of view, that the Halruaans would be very reluctant to ever allow a skyship to fall completely outside their authority.
Of course, the notion of profit, also, often motivates people in strange ways. I can easily see how an Halruaan with strong merchant-leanings, would seize the opportunities presented by a lucrative market for skyships sold beyond their borders... provided it was all covert, and the ships in questions were unlikely to be overly missed by the greater Halruaan community of wizards.
I'll admit, as well, that I'd forgotten about the Durpari reference. And Once Around the Realms shouldn't count because it's not fully canon, right?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 17 Jul 2010 02:16:25 |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 03:21:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Not to contradict the most esteemed and knowledgeable Sage, but we see Halruaan-made Skyships belonging to the Durpari (in Darkvision), and in Once Around the Realms, we clearly see there is a 'black market' for them (the decommissioned ones are supposed to be destroyed, but apparently they don't keep very good track of that).
However, I did perhaps inadvertently mislead with that entry, because I was trying to be brief (for once). The entry does state that those Skyships may just be 'loners', and its not even sure if they have them 'legally' - I would go out on a limb here and assume there are differing factions within Halruaa, just as anywhere else, and they are not all 'on the same page'.
That, or there were Halruaan "loan-officers" on-hand somewhere, watching. The Halruaans have both the power and ability to ensure such a practice, should the need arise. Their "zealous" protection of the secrets of skyships means, from my point of view, that the Halruaans would be very reluctant to ever allow a skyship to fall completely outside their authority.
Of course, the notion of profit, also, often motivates people in strange ways. I can easily see how an Halruaan with strong merchant-leanings, would seize the opportunities presented by a lucrative market for skyships sold beyond their borders... provided it was all covert, and the ships in questions were unlikely to be overly missed by the greater Halruaan community of wizards.
I'll admit, as well, that I'd forgotten about the Durpari reference. And Once Around the Realms shouldn't count because it's not fully canon, right?
And I would go so far as to say if there is a black market for Halruaan Skyships, the Halruaans are controlling it! They certainly have the power and desire. A "rogue" skyship, that was warded and enspelled properly then placed in the black market would be a powerful tool for espionage and a possible "gate" for them to project power through at will. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 04:26:32
|
I wanted to add, on the topic of Halruaan skyships, that the 3e "Shining South" book states that a renegade Halruaan wizard 'let slip' the secret for skyship construction, and other governments have taken note.
Perhaps, like all 'technology', once the secrets out, all bets are off.
Also, why do the Halruaans guard the secrets of skyship construction so? Are they, perhaps, significantly larger than ruathimaer or spelljamming vessels?
Halruaa certainly has weapons far more fantastic than skyships.
These things came up in my campaign many years ago. We decided that if any governmental power had "air superiority" in the Inner Sea lands, it would be a bad thing...
Being adventurers, we took matters into our own hands, of course. |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
|
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 05:33:10
|
Didn't Nimbral have some as well? IIRC, the two nations are related.
There is also that Skyship mentioned in the Old Gray Box in the Utter East (which I used in my CKC article), and that timeline entry in the Athalanter article in Dragon magazine, regarding "Many nations discover the means to create flying ships" (or something to that effect). That could be a Spelljamming reference, or one to the Netherease/Halruaan style Skyships.
Either way, it seems that although Halruaa would like to have a monopoly, they apparently don't.
I would like to imagine that a 4e Skyship would be a 'newer, sleeker model' - something akin to the elemental-powered Ebberon ones. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jul 2010 05:33:43 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 05:55:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
And I would go so far as to say if there is a black market for Halruaan Skyships, the Halruaans are controlling it! They certainly have the power and desire. A "rogue" skyship, that was warded and enspelled properly then placed in the black market would be a powerful tool for espionage and a possible "gate" for them to project power through at will.
Heh. I once speculated along similar lines for a particular Halruaan-based adventure in my Realms. Though I factored in the Arcane/Mercane... instead of the Halruaans.
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
I wanted to add, on the topic of Halruaan skyships, that the 3e "Shining South" book states that a renegade Halruaan wizard 'let slip' the secret for skyship construction, and other governments have taken note.
Perhaps, like all 'technology', once the secrets out, all bets are off.
I recall that bit, now.
Interestingly, to ensure the "uniqueness" of the Halruaan skyship designs in my Realms, I made it clear in my campaign that the "slipping of the secret of skyship construction" was a deliberate process by the Halruaans, and that the slipped secrets were intentionally flawed, and related to older design perimeters that the Halruaans used to adhere to when building their ships. I saw this, almost, as a means of the Halruaans not only controlling what their opponents might discover about the secrets of skyships, but also to reduce the possibility of an actual theft of their updated skyship technology. In other words... only the most dedicated thief or tech-pirate would realise this to be a calculated move on Halruaa's part. Most others would walk away, satisfied with what they'd learnt.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There is also that Skyship mentioned in the Old Gray Box in the Utter East (which I used in my CKC article), and that timeline entry in the Athalanter article in Dragon magazine, regarding "Many nations discover the means to create flying ships" (or something to that effect). That could be a Spelljamming reference, or one to the Netherease/Halruaan style Skyships.
Skyships have long been part of Ed's Realms. "Sailors on the Sea of Air" in DRAGON #124 mentions a few more. See, also, "Realmslore: The Lost Ship" on wizards.com. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2011 : 19:54:51
|
Not to forget Holorarar, in drizzt guide to the Underdark 2e, it is mentioned as an ancient part of shanatar, conquered and held by hobgoblins for nearly ten centuries now.
earthfast mountains I think, also states"goblin kingdoms" raided at will by the orcs ( their kingomds ;) ) at will.
i wouldbe interested in the hobgoblin kingdom in the unapproachable east, only hint I remember there is two hobgoblins lvl 10 ( fighter / mage) who hold the tribes in control on theys eastern border mountains. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Keepings the Goblins down
