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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 10:15:44
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1. What year/years did these cities fall into ruin?
2. What was the source of Neverwinter's lack of winter? Magic or a warm ocean current?
Thanks for any info!
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
757 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 11:34:34
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quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
2. What was the source of Neverwinter's lack of winter? Magic or a warm ocean current?
I'm AFB currently, but I seem to recall it being due to either the Neverwinter River flowing from (and being heated by) Mount Hotenow, or something about fire elementals under the city. I think it's the former though, since Mount Hotenow is also heated by fire elementals I think (and I might be confusing the two). You could try to download The North and/or Volo's Guide to the North from Wizard's website and have a look for yourself under the Neverwinter entries. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 11:50:27
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Yeah, Kyrene got it right.
When did they fall in ruin? In the time after the Spellplague struck. I don't recall any exact dates. Wait - Luskan got worse after Deudermont died. Don't remember the year. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 14:16:44
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don't think it said, but Umberlee did it, she sent upa mighty wave and smashed neverwinter in the balls, and then when she was done with that, she marched her sorry but and did the same to lantan.
Luskan was lucky, they just went to hell in a handbasket after the high captains mucked up and dealt with the drow. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 17:38:46
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| Deudermont tried and failed to take over Luskan in 1377 DR, the Year of the Haunting. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 20:46:35
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In the Elminster MUST Die sample. Lord Arclath Argustagus Delcastle was thinking about a certain Palace Maid that went off to Neverwinter to work for a merchant. So if newer lore superceeds prior lore, I guess Neverwinter is doing just fine! |
Edited by - Brimstone on 10 Jul 2010 20:51:53 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 22:10:31
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| Well as everybody said its been 100 years, they would had plenty enough time to rebuild, but as always with neverwinter MUM is the word |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 22:13:08
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The inconsistencies continue to pile up.
{sigh}
"Hello? Is anyone steering this ship?"
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 00:26:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The inconsistencies continue to pile up.
{sigh}
"Hello? Is anyone steering this ship?"
no it was beached on Evermeet |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 12:44:04
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The inconsistencies continue to pile up.
{sigh}
"Hello? Is anyone steering this ship?"
no it was beached on Evermeet
Elfbane asked some questions, so please keep the ‘lack of quality’ or other snarky comments to a minimum. Just answer the questions and move along 
If I remember correctly Neverwinter being rebuilt was suggest by a game designer a long time ago. Ed Greenwood’s newest masterpiece has just proved the city has been rebuilt (100 years have past) or is in the process of being reclaimed (Think Phlan).
New lore trumps old lore.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 15:39:06
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Since I'm writing a novel set in Luskan at the moment, I thought I'd pop in and answer a little bit:
SPOILERS ABOUND
1) Luskan fell into ruin starting with the destruction of the Hosttower, got beat up again by the Spellplague, then continued its slide into wretchedness over the next century until it became basically the gang-run latrine it is today. Other than the events of The Pirate King, there was no single great event you can point to and say "the city was great yesterday, today it sucks."
As for Neverwinter's recent history, we don't really know anything canonical (the FRCG is teasingly vague), other than the fact (from Ed's book) that the city is, indeed, still there, in some form.
2) I *believe* Neverwinter's name derives from two apocryphal sources: a) the heated river as mentioned above, b) the facility of its gardeners to produce blooms year round, regardless of season (referencing the North sourcebook and other sources over the years).
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 16:08:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Since I'm writing a novel set in Luskan at the moment, I thought I'd pop in and answer a little bit:
SPOILERS ABOUND
1) Luskan fell into ruin starting with the destruction of the Hosttower, got beat up again by the Spellplague, then continued its slide into wretchedness over the next century until it became basically the gang-run latrine it is today. Other than the events of The Pirate King, there was no single great event you can point to and say "the city was great yesterday, today it sucks."
As for Neverwinter's recent history, we don't really know anything canonical (the FRCG is teasingly vague), other than the fact (from Ed's book) that the city is, indeed, still there, in some form.
2) I *believe* Neverwinter's name derives from two apocryphal sources: a) the heated river as mentioned above, b) the facility of its gardeners to produce blooms year round, regardless of season (referencing the North sourcebook and other sources over the years).
Cheers
It will be interesting to see how Luskan is fairing then in your Novel. Especially since you describe it a "gang-run latrine".....remembering some of my late Grandfather's WWII stories, which featured a Latrine or two, there are endless possibilites! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
757 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 08:56:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
2) I *believe* Neverwinter's name derives from two apocryphal sources: a) the heated river as mentioned above, b) the facility of its gardeners to produce blooms year round, regardless of season (referencing the North sourcebook and other sources over the years).
Just for clarity:
I think b) is actually due to a), but both are thought to be the reason for the name "Neverwinter." a) however is the only source (apart from it being a coastal city and thus having a more temperate climate anyway) for the physical lack of winter, which is what the OP asked. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 15:52:34
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I thought the name was only thematic, not that Neverwinter actually physically lacked a winter, but I could be wrong . . . What's the source on that?
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
It will be interesting to see how Luskan is fairing then in your Novel. Especially since you describe it a "gang-run latrine".....remembering some of my late Grandfather's WWII stories, which featured a Latrine or two, there are endless possibilites!
My characterization of Luskan is a little bit Gangs of New York, a little bit Sin City, and a little bit Batman: No Man's Land.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 16:23:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
My characterization of Luskan is a little bit Gangs of New York, a little bit Sin City, and a little bit Batman: No Man's Land.
If I wasn't already interested in your next work, I would be now. No Man's Land remains one of my favourite "Batman" tales, and Sin City -- both the film and comics -- are always among my re-watch/re-read stacks. Plus, I thoroughly enjoyed Gangs of New York [it always reminded me of a PLANESCAPE campaign set in Sigil].
I can't wait to see how you've nurtured Luskan through its latest trials.  |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
757 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 19:49:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I thought the name was only thematic, not that Neverwinter actually physically lacked a winter, but I could be wrong . . . What's the source on that?
I took "lack of winter" in the OP to mean "winter much less severe", and for that I quotequote:
The North
The coastal areas as far north as Port Llast are temperate climates, due to the warm ocean currents running along the coast.
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The always-warm river flowing from the wood [Neverwinter Woods] has its source deep under Mount Hotenow, a sleeping northern volcano home to fire elementals.
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The waters are so warm that the harbor never freezes.
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The city has a large fishing economy, both from the banks and offshore. The warm waters make it fertile ground for shellfish and finned fish alike.
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Equally acclaimed are the gardeners of Neverwinter, whose skills fill the city with fruit-bearing trees and hanging plants in summer and fill the city filled with blooming flowers throughout winter. Many claim this is how the city was named, while others contend that it's due to the Neverwinter River flowing through the city from the woods to the east. Its waters are so warm that Neverwinter's harbor never freezes.
It is so relatively 'warm' during winter due to:
a) it being a coastal city
b) warm ocean currents making it a temperate zone even that far north
c) a warm river flowing through the city adding enough heat that the harbor doesn't freeze
All that 'heat' (again a relative term) must affect the average winter temperatures somehow. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 21:48:28
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| I seem to recall a post from Ed which states that Neverwinter do have winters, only not as severe as the surrounding areas due to the warm river - but I could be wrong, it's far from uncommon. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 02:20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
I seem to recall a post from Ed which states that Neverwinter do have winters, only not as severe as the surrounding areas due to the warm river - but I could be wrong, it's far from uncommon.
That does sound familiar. I'll look through the "So Saith Ed" archives.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 03:24:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
I seem to recall a post from Ed which states that Neverwinter do have winters, only not as severe as the surrounding areas due to the warm river - but I could be wrong, it's far from uncommon.
I remember that very same thing. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 05:41:38
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| I remember it saying something to that accord in the load screans of nwn |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 08:23:57
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There is a third explanation, too. What became Neverwinter was a Northman/Illuskan settelment called Eigerstor but became Neverwinter after some of the elves of Illyanbruen settled there. Particularly, that the name comes from Alauneth Never, ie Never's Winter. That version originally came from the Neverwinter Nights games, although it seems to be an embellishment of stuff from The Savage Frontier and partially made it into the GHotR.
I've always preferred the hotsprings warming the river explanation myself. |
Edited by - BlackAce on 14 Jul 2010 08:25:31 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 15:23:38
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Ah. The "mild winter" was what I had envisioned myself, so that it doesn't *seem* like winter even on the darkest days of Nightal. It's like the trend in our world to associate cities with particular weather conditions (i.e., everyone imagines it's sunny everyday in L.A., whereas it rains all the time in Seattle, neither of which is quite true), coupled with a magical effect (the warm water that moderates the temperature).
Really great place to build a city, no? (Though tragically close to Luskan and all.) 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 16:37:09
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| Luskan wasn't that bad... always... before the dark times, back before greech or whatever his name was took over the place and made it smell like Rotten octopus eggs.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 17:29:48
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackAce
Particularly, that the name comes from Alauneth Never, ie Never's Winter.
Halueth Never, although I think that 'lore' ("Never's Winter" that is) comes from either one of the two Neverwinter Nights games. I found no such reference in the sources I have. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 19:28:20
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You know what I would do what that bit of lore, right there? I would say that there is a poor family living in Neverwinter with the surname 'Never', who tell that story and say Halueth was their ancestor, but the family has fallen on 'hard times'.
Ergo, you can incorporate it into your game, but it can still be completely false. More likely the family took-on that Surname because of where they live, not vice-versa.
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
The "mild winter" was what I had envisioned myself, so that it doesn't *seem* like winter even on the darkest days of Nightal. It's like the trend in our world to associate cities with particular weather conditions (i.e., everyone imagines it's sunny everyday in L.A., whereas it rains all the time in Seattle, neither of which is quite true), coupled with a magical effect (the warm water that moderates the temperature).
You mean like Chicago, 'the windy city', or 'London fog'.
'Costa del Sol' (Coast of the Sun) in Spain is another example.
I don't mind Los Angeles (the city of Angels), but you trying living in NY, the Vampire State. 
That's Holy Water in those plastic bottles everyone is carrying.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 16:58:34
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MT, that's *exactly* what I mean. Chicago may be the windy city, but it isn't windy there every day, for instance--it's just known for it.
(And I don't know, I think Washington might be the new vampire state . . . but enough Stephanie Meyer for one day. )
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Neverwinter and Luskan queries
