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Khondar
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 02:28:24
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Don’t know if this matters or not for this question, but all my information is from the Second Edition Realms…
I would like to know, or have the relevant source pointed out, about the Constable(s) of Dagger Falls. Per the accessory ‘The Dalelands’ and the adventure ‘Doom of Daggerdale’ the constable of Dagger Falls is a Zhentarim appointed fellow named Tren Noemfor. Looking at the adventure ‘The Return of Randal Morn’ the constable is now a slow-witted fellow named Guthbert Golthammer.
When did the change of Constable occur – or what source is it detailed in?
Thanks in advance for any information!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 03:02:22
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I tried - The Ruins of Zhentil Keep product merely mentions that 'the constable' is after Randal Morn (pg.43), but doesn't name him (unless its in another part of that box that I haven't checked).
If a reason for a change exists at all, it would have had to occur between 1993 and 1995 - the release year of the two products you named. I don't know of any sort of chronological list of FR products - perhaps someone else does? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Jun 2010 03:41:47 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 03:19:09
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| Constables tend to either be hired or appointed to a term of office. You might need to ask Ed about how/when and why they changed over time, however them changing over time certainly should not be a surprise. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Khondar
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 03:27:00
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Thanks for the reply Markustay,
Looking at Ruins, page 9, it reads in part; ‘Although it is not needed to run this adventure, the FORGOTTEN REALMS adventure FRQ3 Doom of Daggerdale details Dagger Falls at length’ – so I’d place Tren as the constable.
I’m working on putting together a campaign that, with some minor work, would include the Doom adventure and the Morn trilogy – along with some other ‘official’ adventures thrown in – so the change of constable is something I can do myself (already have a few plausible ideas) if there is nothing cannon covering the change.
Again, thanks for the reference!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 03:40:49
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Volo's Guide to the Dalelands, although published after the products in question, does offer an explanation (an example of past lore-patching?)
pg. 80 states "The most obvious of Zhentarim agents were driven from the city at first light following the fall of the Zhentil Keep constable, Guthbert Golthammer (who was transferred to the village from his previous post in Teshwave)."
Unless someone else wants to investigate further, that's all I got.
EDIT: After your last post I looked in DoD and Tren was indeed the constable, and I have a feeling someone made an error in that Dalelands booklet and used the wrong constable, and that bit was later patched-up by Ed in the Volo's Guide (just a guess, there, but it seems likely.) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Jun 2010 03:49:36 |
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Khondar
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2010 : 04:10:20
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Thanks again Markustay!
Luckily I have the Volo’s Guide to the Dalelands. Thanks for yet another source.
I believe I’ll leave Tren as constable for the Doom adventure – after a quick read Tren seems like a better fit than Guthbert (the latter having an Int score of 6 and how his grammer is given in the last, I believe, Morn module) for that adventure.
I’m leaning on the Zhentarim replacing Tren for some reason after the Doom adventure – maybe his lack of progress in dealing with Mr. Morn and the Freedom Riders.
I do appreciate your information and time.
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2010 : 12:11:49
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In my home Realms campaign I used the players sucess in ‘Doom of Daggerdale’ as the reason that the Zhent leadership sacked Tren Noemfor and replaced him with Guthbert Golthammer, who formerly had been working for the Zhents in Teshwave. This kept the constables in line with their canon assignments in thier position.
Fortunatly for me, my players caused considerable damage to parts of Dagger Falls chasing down those %^$# plant dwarves, and ended up chasing Colderon Morn throughout much of the town as well. They eventually won, but the collateral damage was enough to justify the change in constables. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
Edited by - Halidan on 25 Jun 2010 12:18:36 |
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Cbad285
Learned Scribe
161 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2011 : 16:19:33
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I run almost purely in the heartlands, mostly in daggerdale. For my game personally, I treat the constables like a town sheriff. As such, its a position filled either by tools for crowd control when considering the zhents and such, or as we do in my game, a nice way for the adventurers to be involved but not tied down by the city.
we currently have six constables in daggerdale |
"Beware the Dream Fever!" |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2011 : 02:21:11
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Six constables is an "interesting" thought and if it works in your game, go for it.
There are several mentions that the constable of Dagger Falls can call on the Daggerdale Milita - a band of men native to the dale whose families are watched and used as leverage so they won't work against Zhentish interests. In my Daggerdale dale game, the PC's worked to for several weeks to shelter many of the key milita families, so that when the final battle for Daggerdale occured and the Constable predictably send the Militia out the main gate of Dagger Falls to attack Randal Morn's Freedom Riders. When the militia arrived at Morn's lines, they tore off their black & purple milita badges and gathered under a old battleflag from era of Morn's parents. The mass desertion signaled the real start of the battle for the freedom of Daggerdale. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Cbad285
Learned Scribe
161 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2011 : 17:02:45
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Its questionable to say that it 'works'. Of those six (And understand my game is post sword of the dales, so our political structure is very different from cannon Daggerdale) only one (a high elf bard lV 10ish) is still a constable. The others have either died or abandon the position. It was an Idea I presented to the players who jumped at the cause, but failed in their respectable areas.
As a matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken Alysian (Bard) passed the constable torch to his squire last game and took up the position of steward after their residing lord left for Algoran.
So let me correct myself. We again, only have one constable ;) and the position has slowly transformed itself into a messenger/courier who services the Lady (Randle Mourn's daughter) and the Lord/Steward with some added military control as you mentioned above...but most of that has been lent to the general of the armed forces and such, who also take their command from the nobility. |
"Beware the Dream Fever!" |
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Topic |
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Daggerdale Politics
