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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 00:11:14
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In Lynne Abbey's “The Simbul's Gift,” Alassra owed Lauzoril a debt (for saving Ebroin's life), gave him her true name, and said that he could say her name out loud when he had to collect a debt. In Rihard Lee Byer's “The Haunted Lands” trilogy, the remaining zulkirs, including Lauzoril, who were fighting Szass Tam, saw very little chance of success as Tam's army increased by number and power and theirs continued to dwindle. And after I read “The Simbul's Gift,” I could not help but ask why, despite being pushed to his limits, did Lauzoril not seek the Simbul's assistance as her payment to her debt? If it's too much to ask of her to come and personally blast Szass Tam's army, he could have asked for some considerable number of troops, preferably Aglarondan wizards. Or, when he and the other zulkirs were exiled in Wizard's Reach, he could have asked her to allow them to stay there temporarily, thus avoiding the bloodshed (on both parties) that resulted when Aglarondans fought to claim the place back.
During his final battle with Szass Tam he did not ask for her help, either... I don't think Alassra would renege from her promise, otherwise she would not have given him her true name. Besides, she liked Lauzoril.
So why then did the cunning, charming (?), and powerful (yet below Szass Tam's might) Zulkir of Enchantment not collect his debt?
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 14 Jun 2010 00:13:16
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 04:55:08
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Bingo! When, where, and how? All NDA, sorry.
I know, I know, you SHOULD hit me for saying that.
Go ahead. I enjoy it. 
love,
THO |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 04:58:16
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| Or, more likely, one author was unaware of the developments in the writings of another. If you're looking for a *reason*, it makes sense to say that Lauzoril 1)was confident of his eventual resurrection/reanimation and figured he'd save his marker, or 2)actually cared for her and was legitimately concerned that she would just show up in time to die next to him. I'd lean toward reason 1, though: An archmage of Lauzoril's caliber had to know just what a treasure he had in this favor and wouldn't waste it on something so pedestrian as 'kill that dood' or 'I need a place to lay low'. He would (IMO) be thinking long-term (i.e. centuries) and what he could get out of it if (say) Aglarond became the dominant power in the East, or suchlike. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 05:25:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Perhaps he'd already used it, at some undescribed point in the past?
Thought of it too, but it would have been better if it was mentioned, even in passing, by Richard what "exactly", and why despite the dire circumstances - that all together became an impasse - which Lauzonil got entangled into, he could not avail the Simbul's aid to save his arse... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 05:42:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
Or, more likely, one author was unaware of the developments in the writings of another. If you're looking for a *reason*, it makes sense to say that Lauzoril 1)was confident of his eventual resurrection/reanimation and figured he'd save his marker, or
Possible, being a son and a grandson of two of Thay's greatest necromancers, he might have devised a number of contingency spells to ressurect himself, lichdom among them...
I would also like to think that the SP destroyed his contingencies and shouted Alassra's name in that would-have-been last moment of his life when the greatest enchantment he threw at Szass Tam ricocheted back at him.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 05:51:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Bingo! When, where, and how? All NDA, sorry.
I know, I know, you SHOULD hit me for saying that.
Go ahead. I enjoy it.
love,
THO
hmmm, tempting 
but i'm not a violent person |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 06:21:59
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| It would 'hurt' so good... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 07:11:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Bingo! When, where, and how? All NDA, sorry.
I know, I know, you SHOULD hit me for saying that.
Go ahead. I enjoy it.
love,
THO
Now now, Lady THO, it is unkind to tempt folks in such a way. Besides, it is unkind to strike a lady such as thee, given all the Ed-goodness you bring to these fine halls. We can't be turning the 'keep into a festhall for Loviatar's faithful, now can we?
However clarifying nebulously given the NDA what happened does actually help (thank you!).
/d
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"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 09:24:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
Or, more likely, one author was unaware of the developments in the writings of another.
I think thats the actual reason too. But as you can see there are some reasons you could come up with to explain it storywise. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 10:05:59
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Maybe Richard missed that part about the debt, though I don't know how. Considering that all the zulkirs he featured in HL are the same zulkirs that appeared in The Simbul's Gift, he must have read that work. Or maybe not. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 11:12:57
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Perhaps he'd already used it, at some undescribed point in the past?
Thought of it too, but it would have been better if it was mentioned, even in passing, by Richard what "exactly", and why despite the dire circumstances - that all together became an impasse - which Lauzonil got entangled into, he could not avail the Simbul's aid to save his arse...
Better if it was mentioned, yes -- but something like that is not something you can always work in easily, particularly without disrupting the flow of the story. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 14 Jun 2010 11:13:43 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 20:15:32
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Difficult, yes. But still immensely possible. Aglarond was already part of the plot, so I don't think it'll hurt to throw in their supreme ruler in the scene. She doesn't have to play a big part. A page or two featuring her deeds to save the Zulkir of Enchantment would have sufficed. And Lauzoril could have stayed in Aglarond in disguise or somewhere distant, waiting till an opportunity comes for his return to Thay, which needs not to be during the entire duration of the civil war. And with that, we'll be more or less assured that SOMEONE nearly as powerful as Szass Tam and has much right to claim Thay as Szass does, will one day oppose Tam.
I like the former Zulkir of Necromancy. But he already feels so secure in his throne, and it will be interesting to think that (with the ACTUAL SURVIVAL of Lauzoril, as opposed to Richard's hinting of the other zulkirs' POSSIBLE SURVIVAL) Szass Tam is in far more danger than he thinks. Who else will have interest in opposing Tam and risk their lives to conquer Thay but a Thayan who was stripped of his own rights and political power?
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 09:11:07
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Difficult, yes. But still immensely possible. Aglarond was already part of the plot, so I don't think it'll hurt to throw in their supreme ruler in the scene. She doesn't have to play a big part. A page or two featuring her deeds to save the Zulkir of Enchantment would have sufficed. And Lauzoril could have stayed in Aglarond in disguise or somewhere distant, waiting till an opportunity comes for his return to Thay, which needs not to be during the entire duration of the civil war. And with that, we'll be more or less assured that SOMEONE nearly as powerful as Szass Tam and has much right to claim Thay as Szass does, will one day oppose Tam.
I like the former Zulkir of Necromancy. But he already feels so secure in his throne, and it will be interesting to think that (with the ACTUAL SURVIVAL of Lauzoril, as opposed to Richard's hinting of the other zulkirs' POSSIBLE SURVIVAL) Szass Tam is in far more danger than he thinks. Who else will have interest in opposing Tam and risk their lives to conquer Thay but a Thayan who was stripped of his own rights and political power?
Possible survival? Of all the zulkirs? Nice...
As for the appearance of Simbul in the book - maybe it was there originally, but was cut out due to page limit or something? Just a wild guess. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 12:22:29
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All except Druxus Rhym and Samas Kul...Rhym's assassination by one of Tam's minions (most likely Malark) showed how dead he was. =) And Samas, well, having been split clean in two surely was dead enough.
The rest might have survived. Nevron might have countered the Tam's spell when he "arrived" in hell, or bargained with an archdevil. Lallara might have kept and used a teleportation ring after she secured Aoth's departure. And Lauzoril, as I guessed after reading The Simbu's Gift, might have screamed Alassra's true name.
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The Simbul's Debt to Lauzoril (spoilers included)
