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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
204 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 16:55:46
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Hello folks !
I have a question. I just read "The ring of Winter" wrote by James Lowder.
When the story starts, Artus Cimber explore a ruin in Cormyr, not far of The Stonelands. We are told that it is a Mulhorand ruin.
How that is possible ? Nevertheless, Mulhorande is far away if Cormyr...
Have we any way to know more about this ruin, in a supplement or article ?
Thanks to all,
Marco
Sorry if the post is Irrelevant...
Sorry about my english too, i'm a french fan of the Realms.
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 09:20:24
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| Not far from Stonelands? Makes me think of Netheril ruins, not Mulhorandi... |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 10:08:19
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| I will have to check the book later, but as far as I know there has been no material published outside of the book that details the ruins visited. |
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
204 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 11:33:17
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| Maybe I should ask Ed, at least he invents me an explanation that could help me. |
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
204 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 13:12:15
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Thanks for your answer to my problem ! |
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 01:05:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo
Hello folks !
I have a question. I just read "The ring of Winter" wrote by James Lowder.
When the story starts, Artus Cimber explore a ruin in Cormyr, not far of The Stonelands. We are told that it is a Mulhorand ruin.
Artus finds an artifact from Mulhorand in the ruined keep in the Stonelands, but the keep itself was not built by Mulhorand.
Cheers,
James Lowder |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 01:32:36
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quote:
Originally posted by JamesLowder
quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo
Hello folks !
I have a question. I just read "The ring of Winter" wrote by James Lowder.
When the story starts, Artus Cimber explore a ruin in Cormyr, not far of The Stonelands. We are told that it is a Mulhorand ruin.
Artus finds an artifact from Mulhorand in the ruined keep in the Stonelands, but the keep itself was not built by Mulhorand.
Cheers,
James Lowder
I thought that's what it was, but it's been a year or two since I read the book, and I'd not had a chance to check. 
Have I mentioned that Ring of Winter is one of my fave Realms novels?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 Jun 2010 01:32:54 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 06:02:14
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| One of my top Realms books ever as well.....in fact I think I will shuffle it onto the re-read stack! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
204 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 07:02:49
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Thanks James for your reply ! I am flattered !!
I love your supplement about Chult :) |
Edited by - Marco Volo on 07 Jun 2010 11:51:31 |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2010 : 19:30:18
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| Aye, Ring of Winter is a very entertaining read |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2010 : 21:01:47
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| Anyone know if a story is coming about how Artus became an exarch? |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
144 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 12:37:47
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I'm reading the book and I have another question, so I thought I'd necro this post. Kwee Chan Sen, Theron Silvermace's butler, is said to have left Shou Lung four years before the events of the book, following the execution of his uncle for treason. Said uncle was the Minister of War, so this is a clear reference to Kwan Chan Sen who was executed in the novel Dragonwall; his death occurs before the end of 1359, probably in late summer or fall. So Kwee Chan Sen left Shou Lung in 1359, which means The Ring of Winter cannot take place before 1363. Yet Seven Millennia of Realms Fiction claims that that year is 1362, so which date should we consider correct?
[EDIT]
I skipped ahead to try to solve the discrepancy, and found this:
"Marpenoth 5, Year of the Prince [1357 DR]
[...] It's been two years since I stormed out of the meeting in Shadowdale"
And elsewhere: "His contact with the Harpers had ended five years past, with the young explorer storming out of a council meeting in Shadowdale."
So taken at face value, this would set the book in 1360 DR, which definitely doesn't work. I guess not everything in the book should be taken at face value, despite the otherwise very good lore work by James Lowder. I don't know which year makes the most sense. |
Edited by - Athreeren on 18 Feb 2023 13:35:01 |
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Captain Grafalcon
Learned Scribe
Brazil
129 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 13:27:01
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| Artus EASILY could have had a book series, the character build was pretty solid. I know this is off topic, but there is so much to this book that has the potential to unfold into more adventures. |
"Surely you recognize that armies carrying banners are almost always thievesuntil they win."
Jarlaxle, mercenary leader of Bregan D'aerthe. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 13:44:31
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Only explanation I can think of is that there was another Minister of War who was executed for treason a few years before Dragonwall, with a similar name... which yeah, that's stretching things unless you believe that they have a lot of treasonous Mandarins and a lot of people with similar names. Actually not that implausible but I get your point...
Or maybe the butler had left for the Heartlands 4 years earlier, but turned that sojourn into an exile due to/following the events in Dragonwall where he knew he wouldn't be welcomed back due to his Uncle's actions. |
Edited by - Seravin on 18 Feb 2023 13:46:47 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 13:49:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Grafalcon
Artus EASILY could have had a book series, the character build was pretty solid. I know this is off topic, but there is so much to this book that has the potential to unfold into more adventures.
I mean, writing for Artus after he had the Ring of Winter would be challenging in that he's basically omnipotent/immortal/etc at that stage. It can be done but it's hard to write for that kind of character.
My fave superhero is Dr. Fate - and as he was from the 40s to the 80s he was so powerful he had to be written out of storylines to make things interesting. Eventually they killed him off and nerfed him into various alternate versions of him with much lower power levels so that they could use him in plots with other heroes and introduce some element of suspense. |
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 22:16:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Grafalcon
Artus EASILY could have had a book series, the character build was pretty solid. I know this is off topic, but there is so much to this book that has the potential to unfold into more adventures.
I had assumed at the time I wrote Ring that I would get the chance to do more novels with Artus. He was designed as a potential series character. I proposed more Artus fiction to Wizards back around 2000 or so, both a prequel and a sequel to Ring of Winter. Short fiction, as well. There are definitely more stories to tell. |
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 22:25:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren
I'm reading the book and I have another question, so I thought I'd necro this post. Kwee Chan Sen, Theron Silvermace's butler, is said to have left Shou Lung four years before the events of the book, following the execution of his uncle for treason. Said uncle was the Minister of War, so this is a clear reference to Kwan Chan Sen who was executed in the novel Dragonwall; his death occurs before the end of 1359, probably in late summer or fall. So Kwee Chan Sen left Shou Lung in 1359, which means The Ring of Winter cannot take place before 1363. Yet Seven Millennia of Realms Fiction claims that that year is 1362, so which date should we consider correct?
[EDIT]
I skipped ahead to try to solve the discrepancy, and found this:
"Marpenoth 5, Year of the Prince [1357 DR]
[...] It's been two years since I stormed out of the meeting in Shadowdale"
And elsewhere: "His contact with the Harpers had ended five years past, with the young explorer storming out of a council meeting in Shadowdale."
So taken at face value, this would set the book in 1360 DR, which definitely doesn't work. I guess not everything in the book should be taken at face value, despite the otherwise very good lore work by James Lowder. I don't know which year makes the most sense.
In my original notes, Artus storms out of the meeting in 1355. Ring takes place in 1363, beginning in winter. |
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 22:32:54
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quote:
Originally posted by JamesLowder
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren
I'm reading the book and I have another question, so I thought I'd necro this post. Kwee Chan Sen, Theron Silvermace's butler, is said to have left Shou Lung four years before the events of the book, following the execution of his uncle for treason. Said uncle was the Minister of War, so this is a clear reference to Kwan Chan Sen who was executed in the novel Dragonwall; his death occurs before the end of 1359, probably in late summer or fall. So Kwee Chan Sen left Shou Lung in 1359, which means The Ring of Winter cannot take place before 1363. Yet Seven Millennia of Realms Fiction claims that that year is 1362, so which date should we consider correct?
[EDIT]
I skipped ahead to try to solve the discrepancy, and found this:
"Marpenoth 5, Year of the Prince [1357 DR]
[...] It's been two years since I stormed out of the meeting in Shadowdale"
And elsewhere: "His contact with the Harpers had ended five years past, with the young explorer storming out of a council meeting in Shadowdale."
So taken at face value, this would set the book in 1360 DR, which definitely doesn't work. I guess not everything in the book should be taken at face value, despite the otherwise very good lore work by James Lowder. I don't know which year makes the most sense.
In my original notes, Artus storms out of the meeting in 1355. Ring takes place in 1363, beginning in winter.
Sorry. Should have been more specific, From my original notes:
1355: Artus meets Elminster, storms out of Harpers meeting in Shadowdale.
1357: Theron Silvermace coaxes Artus back to Harpers.
1358: AVATAR. Artus quits Harpers (storms out of second meeting in Shadowdale). Argument over enemy Harpers will not touch, who he tracks to Zhentil Keep. Artus captured and tortured. Rescued by Pontifax.
So he actually quit the Harpers twice, both time storming out of meetings in Shadowdale. (I wrote this character timeline before I quit TSR, twice, though it's pretty amusing in retrospect. I did not storm out of any meetings.)
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
144 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2023 : 06:31:15
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quote:
Originally posted by JamesLowder
Sorry. Should have been more specific, From my original notes:
1355: Artus meets Elminster, storms out of Harpers meeting in Shadowdale.
1357: Theron Silvermace coaxes Artus back to Harpers.
1358: AVATAR. Artus quits Harpers (storms out of second meeting in Shadowdale). Argument over enemy Harpers will not touch, who he tracks to Zhentil Keep. Artus captured and tortured. Rescued by Pontifax.
So he actually quit the Harpers twice, both time storming out of meetings in Shadowdale. (I wrote this character timeline before I quit TSR, twice, though it's pretty amusing in retrospect. I did not storm out of any meetings.)
Thank you! I will edit the wiki to make sure the book is set in 1363 then!
I really like the book so far, you integrated the lore very well. I particularly appreciated how mentioned of the ring in the previous novels are handled. With such a clear concern for being consistent with canon, I knew there had to be some explanation! And yes, Artus is a great character, I think it mostly comes down to how well you designed his backstory. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2023 : 14:45:56
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| The Ring of Winter has long been one of my fave Realms novels. I particularly liked some of the call-outs to other novels, like Artus living above Razor John's place. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
144 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2023 : 16:03:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren
Thank you! I will edit the wiki to make sure the book is set in 1363 then!
Well, I appear to have been banned from the wiki before I was able to make the change everywhere, and I don't know how to appeal it, so maybe I'll try again in a few months. If anyone wants to take over, I can send the list I've made of pages that still have the 1362 DR date. |
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Captain Grafalcon
Learned Scribe
Brazil
129 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2023 : 16:42:51
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quote:
Originally posted by JamesLowder
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Grafalcon
Artus EASILY could have had a book series, the character build was pretty solid. I know this is off topic, but there is so much to this book that has the potential to unfold into more adventures.
I had assumed at the time I wrote Ring that I would get the chance to do more novels with Artus. He was designed as a potential series character. I proposed more Artus fiction to Wizards back around 2000 or so, both a prequel and a sequel to Ring of Winter. Short fiction, as well. There are definitely more stories to tell.
Thank you for the feedback Mr Lowder! It's a shame we didn't get a series involving the character. I appreciate your work, especially Ring of Winter and edition in anthologies (Realms of Valor and Realms of Infamy). Laughter in the Flames, one of the final short stories in Realms of Infamy is amazing! |
"Surely you recognize that armies carrying banners are almost always thievesuntil they win."
Jarlaxle, mercenary leader of Bregan D'aerthe. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2023 : 17:09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Only explanation I can think of is that there was another Minister of War who was executed for treason a few years before Dragonwall, with a similar name... which yeah, that's stretching things unless you believe that they have a lot of treasonous Mandarins and a lot of people with similar names. Actually not that implausible but I get your point...
Or maybe the butler had left for the Heartlands 4 years earlier, but turned that sojourn into an exile due to/following the events in Dragonwall where he knew he wouldn't be welcomed back due to his Uncle's actions.
Regarding this, yeah, that second idea sounds much more plausible. It may also have been that somehow he got the heads up prior to his relative getting officially turned in and saw the writing on the wall.
Its sad, I know I read this book... but like so many that I've read, I no longer remember any of its plot after 25+ years have passed. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2023 : 16:17:24
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| Forget Artus, I want more Byrt and Lugg! |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
Edited by - Seethyr on 16 Apr 2023 20:48:20 |
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redking
Learned Scribe
141 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2023 : 11:56:10
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| Around 20 years ago, Mr. Lowder was kind enough to answer the emails of an enjoyer of his writing (me) and told me that he could write a follow up to the Ring of Winter, given the opportunity. I don't know if we will ever see that, as WotC does not seem to be interested in novels set in the past - or any novels not by Salvatore, for that matter. |
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2023 : 16:38:24
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quote:
Originally posted by redking
Around 20 years ago, Mr. Lowder was kind enough to answer the emails of an enjoyer of his writing (me) and told me that he could write a follow up to the Ring of Winter, given the opportunity. I don't know if we will ever see that, as WotC does not seem to be interested in novels set in the past - or any novels not by Salvatore, for that matter.
That's entirely up to Wizards. I doubt they would want to do a novel, but I could see ways in which a short story or two would be possible. I had pitched a sequel to Ring of Winter to the company at one point and there are aspects of that I could easily turn into a shorter work or shorter works. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2023 : 18:52:28
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| I thought the move in 4E to de-evilfy Auril somewhat, which included connecting her and Artus Cimber, was an interesting one; I am disappointed that the 5E design team appears to have disregarded that (if they were even aware of it). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 May 2023 18:52:46 |
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BileDemon
Acolyte
14 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2023 : 21:41:41
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Recently read that novel and really enjoyed it. A good mix of adventure, backstory and humour. Loved the wombats!
@JamesLowder
Really a shame they didnīt ask for more novels from you, I like your style. |
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2023 : 01:55:13
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quote:
Originally posted by BileDemon
Recently read that novel and really enjoyed it. A good mix of adventure, backstory and humour. Loved the wombats!
@JamesLowder
Really a shame they didnīt ask for more novels from you, I like your style.
Glad you enjoyed the book!
Looking in my files, I pitched a direct sequel in 1997 or so, right after the WotC buyout of TSR. That pitch focused on Artus returning to Mezro to battle Ras Nsi and his undead minions. But WotC wanted me to write the sequel to Knight of the Black Rose first, which made sense since Margaret and Tracy were returning, too, and the Dragonlance team wanted Lord Soth back on Krynn (something I supported 110%).
A few years later, Wizards management solicited a prequel and a sequel proposal to Ring from me. Initially they were thinking they would like me to turn Ring into the middle book of a trilogy, but some folks in the Book Department ended up scuttling those plans before we ever really talked about the proposal in detail.
I would have loved to have written those novels, but it's probably for the best they didn't happen at that time. My relationship with the company was a bit rocky circa 2001 because of business matters, in particular my opposition to the Dragon CD ROM rights grab, which had already prompted me to withdraw my proposed Realms of the Deep story about Artus battling Aremag the dragon turtle (who, yes, was absolutely named in honor of Gamera when I created him for Ring). The bigger continuing issue became my efforts to help fellow fiction authors recover quite a lot of money from WotC for unpaid, but contractually obligated translation royalties. It took some time, but those efforts made it possible for authors to recover over $250,000 (so approaching $500,000 in 2023 dollars), by my estimates; as you would expect with that much money in play, the matter got rather contentious with WotC, which would have made working on the novels at that time tough. And, really, the doom of the WotC fiction program started in the late 90s, tied to changes in the fiction market worldwide and to the OGL movement in house, which was premised on the company doing much less to support the various shared worlds, especially with fiction. That thinking played a part in Wizards killing the Ravenloft fiction line in 1999 or 2000, even though Spectre of the Black Rose had sold as they had hoped when I contracted to write it.
As I believe I have mentioned before, the proposed Realms books would have pulled together various characters I'd created in my other Realms novels (Rinda, Vrakk, and so on) and detailed the development arc I had in mind for Artus. At the time I wrote Ring, I assumed I would get the chance to do more fiction with him, so his story was not intended to stop there. If I get the chance to do anything with the Realms again, my first choice would be something with Artus. It would have to be the right editorial and business conditions, but I still hold out hope.
Cheers,
Jim Lowder |
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redking
Learned Scribe
141 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2023 : 15:11:05
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| James - can you tell us anything about the campaign setting you presented in your Dragon Magazine short fiction "Bandits In the Paths of Fame"? I was intrigued and wanted to know more. |
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2023 : 17:57:42
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quote:
Originally posted by redking
James - can you tell us anything about the campaign setting you presented in your Dragon Magazine short fiction "Bandits In the Paths of Fame"? I was intrigued and wanted to know more.
That's a creator-owned story. It's tied to the D&D campaign I started playing in high school and the original setting I developed for that. (It's a bit ironic that the fiction I published that's officially tied to game worlds did not, as a rule, include characters I played in RPGs, while some of my creator-owned fiction involves characters or settings I developed connected to RPG play.) What sort of information are you looking for?
Cheers,
Jim Lowder |
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Novel The Ring of Winter & Cormyr
