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Marco Volo Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 16:55:46
Hello folks !

I have a question. I just read "The ring of Winter" wrote by James Lowder.

When the story starts, Artus Cimber explore a ruin in Cormyr, not far of The Stonelands. We are told that it is a Mulhorand ruin.

How that is possible ? Nevertheless, Mulhorande is far away if Cormyr...

Have we any way to know more about this ruin, in a supplement or article ?

Thanks to all,
Marco
Sorry if the post is Irrelevant...
Sorry about my english too, i'm a french fan of the Realms.
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
JamesLowder Posted - 10 Nov 2023 : 00:27:38
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

" That pitch focused on Artus returning to Mezro to battle Ras Nsi and his undead minions."

Oh wow. The prequel (maybe focusing on Artus battling the Cult of the Frost in Tantras or something) and the plot of the sequel above sound amazing. I am beyond sad we never got those books. I wish people in power had some sense.



The prequel involved the Red Wizards, the Zhentarim, and the Cult of Frost. Artus had a long history of annoying the wrong groups.
Seravin Posted - 09 Nov 2023 : 22:17:55
" That pitch focused on Artus returning to Mezro to battle Ras Nsi and his undead minions."

Oh wow. The prequel (maybe focusing on Artus battling the Cult of the Frost in Tantras or something) and the plot of the sequel above sound amazing. I am beyond sad we never got those books. I wish people in power had some sense.
JamesLowder Posted - 09 Nov 2023 : 18:44:34
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It is my opinion that the current team at WotC simply doesn't want the trouble of creating lore, and that's why they keep publishing "classic" settings slightly tweaked to the new ruleset, or simply grabbing someone else's work and slapping a D&D label on it (Acquisitions Incorporated, the Magic the Gathering settings, etc).

I was deeply disappointed to find out the new Dragonlance release was going back to the War of the Lance... And from what I've heard, the new Planescape setting basically rewinds everything and goes back to the beginning for Planescape.



WotC needs to refill the IP fount with new creations and new material (some tied to the new creations and additional development of existing material) if they hope it will provide them with worlds and stories to develop five or ten or more years down the road. I think they saw the point. There's value in doing partnerships like Acquisitions, Inc., which was a true partnership, not WotC taking all rights for something to appear in an official D&D book, and in developing MtG worlds and even in revisiting and recasting the older material. But all that should be part of a larger strategy that includes adding new voices and new creations to the world, and allowing existing creators the chance to add and develop their contributions. The fount dries up if you don't.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 09 Nov 2023 : 11:02:39
It is my opinion that the current team at WotC simply doesn't want the trouble of creating lore, and that's why they keep publishing "classic" settings slightly tweaked to the new ruleset, or simply grabbing someone else's work and slapping a D&D label on it (Acquisitions Incorporated, the Magic the Gathering settings, etc).

I was deeply disappointed to find out the new Dragonlance release was going back to the War of the Lance... And from what I've heard, the new Planescape setting basically rewinds everything and goes back to the beginning for Planescape.
JamesLowder Posted - 09 Nov 2023 : 04:39:26
quote:
Originally posted by BileDemon

Interesting background story. Artus vs. Ras Nsi sounds interesting, too bad it didnīt happen. But thatīs often the case when companies are only following the money.
BTW: Just a co-incidence or is the name Artus inspired by King Arthur/Artus? (varies from language and location)



The name Artus was absolutely a nod to the Matter, though the intent was not to suggest Artus as King Arthur. (That's more Azoun, but even there, Arthur's the sort of figure he wants to be but isn't quite able to pull off.) At least a few of my character names are nods like that, with Aremag/Gamera the most obvious. The name for Kezef the Chaos Hound was a riff on a Vonnegut character from Sirens of Titan, Kazak the Hound of Space.

I've done a lot of work on Arthurian material. At one time, my "practical" plan was to complete a PhD in medieval lit, teach at a university, and write fantasy, horror, and games on the side. In grad school I discovered I loved teaching but didn't like academia all that much, so it didn't work out. I ended up with the impractical writing and editing job as my career, so it's for the best. I've edited a couple of Arthurian fiction anthologies and two editions of the reference book The Arthurian Companion, along with running the Pendragon fiction line at various times. Got to work on a version of the Pendragon RPG quickstart rules, too. So I've managed to do a fair bit of work on the Matter in the day job.

Wizards turned away from fiction, in my opinion, because they misread the longterm value of their worlds and characters. Circa 2000, some in the company really did think the OGL would make the d20 system the "Windows of gaming" and their future would be in publishing core rules with other publishers doing the worldbuilding, which they did not see as having longterm worth. The company's repeated use of material from the 80s and 90s in the last decade, especially from the fiction lines, and the way the worlds and narrative content (not the game rules) have provided the foundations for their mass media expansions (computer games, film, actual play, etc) make it clear the oracles in the late 90s and early 2000s were selling the worldbuilding short.

The game and the D&D brand is important, of course, but the fiction in particular is a wellspring of great value to them for both creative and financial reasons.
BileDemon Posted - 09 Nov 2023 : 00:15:55
Interesting background story. Artus vs. Ras Nsi sounds interesting, too bad it didnīt happen. But thatīs often the case when companies are only following the money.
BTW: Just a co-incidence or is the name Artus inspired by King Arthur/Artus? (varies from language and location)
redking Posted - 06 Nov 2023 : 19:18:44
You gave me the answer I was looking for. What I wanted to know was whether it was part of a larger world, or whether the short short story is self contained. Feel free to elaborate on the world you've created if you have the time.
JamesLowder Posted - 06 Nov 2023 : 17:57:42
quote:
Originally posted by redking

James - can you tell us anything about the campaign setting you presented in your Dragon Magazine short fiction "Bandits In the Paths of Fame"? I was intrigued and wanted to know more.



That's a creator-owned story. It's tied to the D&D campaign I started playing in high school and the original setting I developed for that. (It's a bit ironic that the fiction I published that's officially tied to game worlds did not, as a rule, include characters I played in RPGs, while some of my creator-owned fiction involves characters or settings I developed connected to RPG play.) What sort of information are you looking for?

Cheers,
Jim Lowder
redking Posted - 06 Nov 2023 : 15:11:05
James - can you tell us anything about the campaign setting you presented in your Dragon Magazine short fiction "Bandits In the Paths of Fame"? I was intrigued and wanted to know more.
JamesLowder Posted - 02 Nov 2023 : 01:55:13
quote:
Originally posted by BileDemon

Recently read that novel and really enjoyed it. A good mix of adventure, backstory and humour. Loved the wombats!
@JamesLowder
Really a shame they didnīt ask for more novels from you, I like your style.



Glad you enjoyed the book!

Looking in my files, I pitched a direct sequel in 1997 or so, right after the WotC buyout of TSR. That pitch focused on Artus returning to Mezro to battle Ras Nsi and his undead minions. But WotC wanted me to write the sequel to Knight of the Black Rose first, which made sense since Margaret and Tracy were returning, too, and the Dragonlance team wanted Lord Soth back on Krynn (something I supported 110%).

A few years later, Wizards management solicited a prequel and a sequel proposal to Ring from me. Initially they were thinking they would like me to turn Ring into the middle book of a trilogy, but some folks in the Book Department ended up scuttling those plans before we ever really talked about the proposal in detail.

I would have loved to have written those novels, but it's probably for the best they didn't happen at that time. My relationship with the company was a bit rocky circa 2001 because of business matters, in particular my opposition to the Dragon CD ROM rights grab, which had already prompted me to withdraw my proposed Realms of the Deep story about Artus battling Aremag the dragon turtle (who, yes, was absolutely named in honor of Gamera when I created him for Ring). The bigger continuing issue became my efforts to help fellow fiction authors recover quite a lot of money from WotC for unpaid, but contractually obligated translation royalties. It took some time, but those efforts made it possible for authors to recover over $250,000 (so approaching $500,000 in 2023 dollars), by my estimates; as you would expect with that much money in play, the matter got rather contentious with WotC, which would have made working on the novels at that time tough. And, really, the doom of the WotC fiction program started in the late 90s, tied to changes in the fiction market worldwide and to the OGL movement in house, which was premised on the company doing much less to support the various shared worlds, especially with fiction. That thinking played a part in Wizards killing the Ravenloft fiction line in 1999 or 2000, even though Spectre of the Black Rose had sold as they had hoped when I contracted to write it.

As I believe I have mentioned before, the proposed Realms books would have pulled together various characters I'd created in my other Realms novels (Rinda, Vrakk, and so on) and detailed the development arc I had in mind for Artus. At the time I wrote Ring, I assumed I would get the chance to do more fiction with him, so his story was not intended to stop there. If I get the chance to do anything with the Realms again, my first choice would be something with Artus. It would have to be the right editorial and business conditions, but I still hold out hope.

Cheers,
Jim Lowder
BileDemon Posted - 01 Nov 2023 : 21:41:41
Recently read that novel and really enjoyed it. A good mix of adventure, backstory and humour. Loved the wombats!
@JamesLowder
Really a shame they didnīt ask for more novels from you, I like your style.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 17 May 2023 : 18:52:28
I thought the move in 4E to de-evilfy Auril somewhat, which included connecting her and Artus Cimber, was an interesting one; I am disappointed that the 5E design team appears to have disregarded that (if they were even aware of it).
JamesLowder Posted - 17 May 2023 : 16:38:24
quote:
Originally posted by redking

Around 20 years ago, Mr. Lowder was kind enough to answer the emails of an enjoyer of his writing (me) and told me that he could write a follow up to the Ring of Winter, given the opportunity. I don't know if we will ever see that, as WotC does not seem to be interested in novels set in the past - or any novels not by Salvatore, for that matter.



That's entirely up to Wizards. I doubt they would want to do a novel, but I could see ways in which a short story or two would be possible. I had pitched a sequel to Ring of Winter to the company at one point and there are aspects of that I could easily turn into a shorter work or shorter works.
redking Posted - 17 May 2023 : 11:56:10
Around 20 years ago, Mr. Lowder was kind enough to answer the emails of an enjoyer of his writing (me) and told me that he could write a follow up to the Ring of Winter, given the opportunity. I don't know if we will ever see that, as WotC does not seem to be interested in novels set in the past - or any novels not by Salvatore, for that matter.
Seethyr Posted - 16 Apr 2023 : 16:17:24
Forget Artus, I want more Byrt and Lugg!
sleyvas Posted - 24 Feb 2023 : 17:09:49
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

Only explanation I can think of is that there was another Minister of War who was executed for treason a few years before Dragonwall, with a similar name... which yeah, that's stretching things unless you believe that they have a lot of treasonous Mandarins and a lot of people with similar names. Actually not that implausible but I get your point...

Or maybe the butler had left for the Heartlands 4 years earlier, but turned that sojourn into an exile due to/following the events in Dragonwall where he knew he wouldn't be welcomed back due to his Uncle's actions.



Regarding this, yeah, that second idea sounds much more plausible. It may also have been that somehow he got the heads up prior to his relative getting officially turned in and saw the writing on the wall.

Its sad, I know I read this book... but like so many that I've read, I no longer remember any of its plot after 25+ years have passed.
Captain Grafalcon Posted - 20 Feb 2023 : 16:42:51
quote:
Originally posted by JamesLowder

quote:
Originally posted by Captain Grafalcon

Artus EASILY could have had a book series, the character build was pretty solid. I know this is off topic, but there is so much to this book that has the potential to unfold into more adventures.



I had assumed at the time I wrote Ring that I would get the chance to do more novels with Artus. He was designed as a potential series character. I proposed more Artus fiction to Wizards back around 2000 or so, both a prequel and a sequel to Ring of Winter. Short fiction, as well. There are definitely more stories to tell.





Thank you for the feedback Mr Lowder! It's a shame we didn't get a series involving the character. I appreciate your work, especially Ring of Winter and edition in anthologies (Realms of Valor and Realms of Infamy). Laughter in the Flames, one of the final short stories in Realms of Infamy is amazing!
Athreeren Posted - 20 Feb 2023 : 16:03:12
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren
Thank you! I will edit the wiki to make sure the book is set in 1363 then!



Well, I appear to have been banned from the wiki before I was able to make the change everywhere, and I don't know how to appeal it, so maybe I'll try again in a few months. If anyone wants to take over, I can send the list I've made of pages that still have the 1362 DR date.
Wooly Rupert Posted - 19 Feb 2023 : 14:45:56
The Ring of Winter has long been one of my fave Realms novels. I particularly liked some of the call-outs to other novels, like Artus living above Razor John's place.
Athreeren Posted - 19 Feb 2023 : 06:31:15
quote:
Originally posted by JamesLowder
Sorry. Should have been more specific, From my original notes:

1355: Artus meets Elminster, storms out of Harpers meeting in Shadowdale.

1357: Theron Silvermace coaxes Artus back to Harpers.

1358: AVATAR. Artus quits Harpers (storms out of second meeting in Shadowdale). Argument over enemy Harpers will not touch, who he tracks to Zhentil Keep. Artus captured and tortured. Rescued by Pontifax.

So he actually quit the Harpers twice, both time storming out of meetings in Shadowdale. (I wrote this character timeline before I quit TSR, twice, though it's pretty amusing in retrospect. I did not storm out of any meetings.)




Thank you! I will edit the wiki to make sure the book is set in 1363 then!

I really like the book so far, you integrated the lore very well. I particularly appreciated how mentioned of the ring in the previous novels are handled. With such a clear concern for being consistent with canon, I knew there had to be some explanation! And yes, Artus is a great character, I think it mostly comes down to how well you designed his backstory.
JamesLowder Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 22:32:54
quote:
Originally posted by JamesLowder

quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren

I'm reading the book and I have another question, so I thought I'd necro this post. Kwee Chan Sen, Theron Silvermace's butler, is said to have left Shou Lung four years before the events of the book, following the execution of his uncle for treason. Said uncle was the Minister of War, so this is a clear reference to Kwan Chan Sen who was executed in the novel Dragonwall; his death occurs before the end of 1359, probably in late summer or fall. So Kwee Chan Sen left Shou Lung in 1359, which means The Ring of Winter cannot take place before 1363. Yet Seven Millennia of Realms Fiction claims that that year is 1362, so which date should we consider correct?

[EDIT]

I skipped ahead to try to solve the discrepancy, and found this:

"Marpenoth 5, Year of the Prince [1357 DR]
[...] It's been two years since I stormed out of the meeting in Shadowdale"

And elsewhere: "His contact with the Harpers had ended five years past, with the young explorer storming out of a council meeting in Shadowdale."

So taken at face value, this would set the book in 1360 DR, which definitely doesn't work. I guess not everything in the book should be taken at face value, despite the otherwise very good lore work by James Lowder. I don't know which year makes the most sense.



In my original notes, Artus storms out of the meeting in 1355. Ring takes place in 1363, beginning in winter.



Sorry. Should have been more specific, From my original notes:

1355: Artus meets Elminster, storms out of Harpers meeting in Shadowdale.

1357: Theron Silvermace coaxes Artus back to Harpers.

1358: AVATAR. Artus quits Harpers (storms out of second meeting in Shadowdale). Argument over enemy Harpers will not touch, who he tracks to Zhentil Keep. Artus captured and tortured. Rescued by Pontifax.

So he actually quit the Harpers twice, both time storming out of meetings in Shadowdale. (I wrote this character timeline before I quit TSR, twice, though it's pretty amusing in retrospect. I did not storm out of any meetings.)
JamesLowder Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 22:25:51
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren

I'm reading the book and I have another question, so I thought I'd necro this post. Kwee Chan Sen, Theron Silvermace's butler, is said to have left Shou Lung four years before the events of the book, following the execution of his uncle for treason. Said uncle was the Minister of War, so this is a clear reference to Kwan Chan Sen who was executed in the novel Dragonwall; his death occurs before the end of 1359, probably in late summer or fall. So Kwee Chan Sen left Shou Lung in 1359, which means The Ring of Winter cannot take place before 1363. Yet Seven Millennia of Realms Fiction claims that that year is 1362, so which date should we consider correct?

[EDIT]

I skipped ahead to try to solve the discrepancy, and found this:

"Marpenoth 5, Year of the Prince [1357 DR]
[...] It's been two years since I stormed out of the meeting in Shadowdale"

And elsewhere: "His contact with the Harpers had ended five years past, with the young explorer storming out of a council meeting in Shadowdale."

So taken at face value, this would set the book in 1360 DR, which definitely doesn't work. I guess not everything in the book should be taken at face value, despite the otherwise very good lore work by James Lowder. I don't know which year makes the most sense.



In my original notes, Artus storms out of the meeting in 1355. Ring takes place in 1363, beginning in winter.
JamesLowder Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 22:16:17
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Grafalcon

Artus EASILY could have had a book series, the character build was pretty solid. I know this is off topic, but there is so much to this book that has the potential to unfold into more adventures.



I had assumed at the time I wrote Ring that I would get the chance to do more novels with Artus. He was designed as a potential series character. I proposed more Artus fiction to Wizards back around 2000 or so, both a prequel and a sequel to Ring of Winter. Short fiction, as well. There are definitely more stories to tell.
Seravin Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 13:49:19
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Grafalcon

Artus EASILY could have had a book series, the character build was pretty solid. I know this is off topic, but there is so much to this book that has the potential to unfold into more adventures.



I mean, writing for Artus after he had the Ring of Winter would be challenging in that he's basically omnipotent/immortal/etc at that stage. It can be done but it's hard to write for that kind of character.

My fave superhero is Dr. Fate - and as he was from the 40s to the 80s he was so powerful he had to be written out of storylines to make things interesting. Eventually they killed him off and nerfed him into various alternate versions of him with much lower power levels so that they could use him in plots with other heroes and introduce some element of suspense.
Seravin Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 13:44:31
Only explanation I can think of is that there was another Minister of War who was executed for treason a few years before Dragonwall, with a similar name... which yeah, that's stretching things unless you believe that they have a lot of treasonous Mandarins and a lot of people with similar names. Actually not that implausible but I get your point...

Or maybe the butler had left for the Heartlands 4 years earlier, but turned that sojourn into an exile due to/following the events in Dragonwall where he knew he wouldn't be welcomed back due to his Uncle's actions.
Captain Grafalcon Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 13:27:01
Artus EASILY could have had a book series, the character build was pretty solid. I know this is off topic, but there is so much to this book that has the potential to unfold into more adventures.
Athreeren Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 12:37:47
I'm reading the book and I have another question, so I thought I'd necro this post. Kwee Chan Sen, Theron Silvermace's butler, is said to have left Shou Lung four years before the events of the book, following the execution of his uncle for treason. Said uncle was the Minister of War, so this is a clear reference to Kwan Chan Sen who was executed in the novel Dragonwall; his death occurs before the end of 1359, probably in late summer or fall. So Kwee Chan Sen left Shou Lung in 1359, which means The Ring of Winter cannot take place before 1363. Yet Seven Millennia of Realms Fiction claims that that year is 1362, so which date should we consider correct?

[EDIT]

I skipped ahead to try to solve the discrepancy, and found this:

"Marpenoth 5, Year of the Prince [1357 DR]
[...] It's been two years since I stormed out of the meeting in Shadowdale"

And elsewhere: "His contact with the Harpers had ended five years past, with the young explorer storming out of a council meeting in Shadowdale."

So taken at face value, this would set the book in 1360 DR, which definitely doesn't work. I guess not everything in the book should be taken at face value, despite the otherwise very good lore work by James Lowder. I don't know which year makes the most sense.
Drizztsmanchild Posted - 07 Jun 2010 : 21:01:47
Anyone know if a story is coming about how Artus became an exarch?
Elfinblade Posted - 07 Jun 2010 : 19:30:18
Aye, Ring of Winter is a very entertaining read
Marco Volo Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 07:02:49
Thanks James for your reply ! I am flattered !!
I love your supplement about Chult :)

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