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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 06:56:39
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Sorry about the title - don't mean to ruffle feathers.
I've been playing with the maps as usual, and I'm kinda putting together my version of a 'dream setting'. I've been posting stuff in other folks' threads and decided that wasn't very nice, so if anyone is interested in my 'mad scientist' mapping you'll find them here now.
From the last WIP I posted in the Osse thread, I have reduced the size of the Greyhawk part of the map. Two very good reasons for that - first, I thought it was a shame that I had to lose Maztica (I know, I know, its already gone...), when the idea was to build onto the Realms, NOT lose stuff. Then, while trying to figure out how to get it back without compromising the Amalgam, I realized I never bother to check scales! I only fit things together however they looked good.
So, after checking the scale of Greyhawk (no easy task - you find a frigging Oerth map with a damn scale on it!), I matched the continents as near as I could so the scales should be the same no matter what settings maps are used. I also decided the new Anchorome had grown too large, and needed to shrink it down, and here is what I have so far -
A brave new World
Note that I went ahead and corrected the Faerūnian continent as well - the rather ugly silhouette from the FRCS was getting on my nerves. It is still a work-in-progress, so all that stuff you see below that new continent is subject to change. I'm not thrilled with the weird new sub-continent of Hepmozticaland, but it works - all of the known parts of Maztica are there, as well as the small bit of Hepmonaland that shows on the Greyhawk maps.
This is how I arrived at that continents shape -
New continent with campaign overlays
That's the entirety of the Iron Kingdoms setting (Immoren) right there - I like the way the mountains trailing off one map lead to the mts on the other. 
Buuuut... the scale for that part is still wrong, plus I'm really not thrilled with how it looks. I corrected the rotation I did on the earlier version - the idea is to be able to use the campaign maps from each setting WITHOUT any alterations. IK is way smaller then I thought - not even as wide as the distance from the Swordcoast to the eastern tip of the lake of Steam.
Now that I fixed the angle, I will work on the size (matching these scales is a pain). I really think the continent will look better for it anyway - its too 'squarish' looking on that end. Plus I still need to pull that setting a bit more north, so I don't have to fuss with Osse as much when I paste Mystara onto it.
I still have to squeeze Xendrik in there, and Nyambe below the new Anchoerik continent. 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Jun 2010 06:59:29
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 07:08:48
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oooooo... That's quite pretty as is, really! I was never a huge fan of the Americas shaped bit of Toril, or the East Asia shaped bit, for that matter...
There's another multi-setting mega-mash-up map floating around out there somewhere (and on my HD, I think), but this is looking much more artistic. Looking forward to the next bits! |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 07:16:01
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Nice work, Mark. I'm doing a very similar thing with shoehorning Golarion onto "Anchorome", just with Maztica tacked onto the bottom of Quadira and the eastern coast resembling the one on Toril.
I'll be happy to see how your experimentation goes and steal any good ideas for myself. :) |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 07:23:44
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Looks good.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 07:59:29
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Consider me watching with interest.
I like all the work you've put into your stuff over the years, and I'll be glad to help if I can, even if it's just thrown pottery :P
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 08:29:19
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Thanks for starting your own scroll, Mark. I'll be following this one with interest too, never fear, but for the present my creative energies are focused on CK's Osse project. On which note: we're trying to use as much as possible of what you and Dagnirion/LK put together in the Osse thread on those other boards, and if you could let us know in the "Project Isle" scroll which of those ideas you're particularly fond of, we'll try to work them in if we haven't already done so. We've had a pile of great ideas there, but we'd still be interested in hearing your thoughts on "fleshing out" Osse as it stands with canon geography (and yes, I know that's just coastlines and mountains, the latter thanks to the FRIA globe).
Thanks! If I have any ideas for you, I'll be sure to speak up, as I'm sure you know. 
Actually, one idea just occurred to me... if you're using eastern Oerik there, were you planning to make it the actual eastern Oerik, or just using the geography? Because melding Oerth and Toril would be a heck of a Spellplague event... I know you've already dropped the city of GH into your Realms as it is now, but this could be very interesting with a storyline similar to my original Oerth/Toril Spellplague script... which is posted somewhere here at the 'Keep... I'll try to find the scroll for you...
Edit: found it: here... and I erased Evermeet in my original take on things as well. Maybe it's a sign...  or just a coincidence. 
Edit: Of course, your version would be significantly different, in that Oerth and Toril would do what Abeir and Toril did in the canon Spellplague... if you take that explanation, anyway; the old Anchorome continent would end up where eastern Oerik was in Oerth, and all of the gods of the Flanaess would follow eastern Oerik into Realmspace. Why reduce the size of the pantheon when you can double it? More gods = more interesting. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 02 Jun 2010 08:39:36 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 10:33:18
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In addition to additions, there are a few minor alterations to the Faerun and Zakhara map I might make.
- For Zakhara, the big square mass of regularly spaced islands fitting together like puzzle pieces looks a bit odd to me, I'd either fan them out a bit or add some to break up the shape (or both).
- Heretical though it may be to suggest as much, the coastlines of Faerun, especially those of the Shining and Great seas seem a bit on the flat side. I'd exaggerate their contours a bit; the Sword Coast a bit more bowed, Calimshan and Dragon's Head/Velen a bit more pronounced, etc, etc.
- Also, I'm not sure what, if anything, there is on those bits above northern Faerun and the Ama Basin, or if they're ice sheets. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 10:50:57
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| Great job... |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 12:21:49
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So, *why*, exactly, is eastern Oerik fused with Toril? What are the over-arching effects on cannon?
I want a Dramidj stone. Correction, I want a company of War Wizards with Dramidj stones... |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 17:46:14
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Well, if I were to run this abomination , I would say THAT was the effect of the Spellplague. That Oerth was the other half of Toril (what? You don't think the inhabitants of 'Abeir' would be calling it something different 30,000 years later?)
In fact, all these changes could be said have been caused by the Spellplague. The REAL secret was that the split didn't just happen once - over the course of countless millennia several events (like the Sundering, or tearfalls) have caused pieces of Toril to shift to other worlds. The magical chaos of the Spellplague was causing the world to break apart, so Ao had to pull a 'cold reboot' on the whole shebang.
That means you could say that the inhabitants are aware of the changes, or you could say history itself has been re-written to accommodate the new continuity; personally, I think it would be much less of a headache to say most everyone knows about it. IN FACT, saying people are aware of all the new geography gives rise to a whole new set of adventures - exploration, new trade routes, opening up diplomatic relations with other countries, etc.
I really wish I could fit Khorvaire and Ansalon - I could if I decided the planet was about twice the diameter of earth, and put all that in the southern hemisphere (which would shift the equater south), but I would have to flip those continents upside-down in order to keep the climates correct, and I'm striving for being able to use the various campaign world maps as-is. Also, it really would be overly redundant - I'm already having a problem with multiples of the same cultures.
Although I thought about how cool it would be to make a whole new planet, with no axial tilt and a 'ring of fire' around the equator, where the temperature reaches 200° and there is literally a wall of mist and then scalding steam dividing the north and the south. Thats getting a bit 'SciFi' though. It also would no longer be FR 'with things tacked-on' - Faerūn would get lost in all of that. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 17:58:10
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| Depending on how much 4e lore you want want to use, you could have two maps. One of Toril with Faerun and friends, and then Abeir with Shyr, whatever took Laerakond's place (Maztica, presumably) and whatever stuff you couldn't quite fit onto your new Toril map. I'm often tempted to ignore the bit where Abeir re-separates from Faerun after the Plague, and having it at least somewhat accessible via high end portal magic. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
735 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 18:04:06
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[quote]Originally posted by Markustay
I really wish I could fit Khorvaire and Ansalon - I could if I decided the planet was about twice the diameter of earth, and put all that in the southern hemisphere (which would shift the equater south), but I would have to flip those continents upside-down in order to keep the climates correct, and I'm striving for being able to use the various campaign world maps as-is. Also, it really would be overly redundant - I'm already having a problem with multiples of the same cultures.
[quote]
Well... Strictly speaking, you would not have to flip Ansalon - it's already in the southern hemisphere . |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 18:15:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
There's another multi-setting mega-mash-up map floating around out there somewhere (and on my HD, I think), but this is looking much more artistic. Looking forward to the next bits!
I have seen that, and although I was very impressed by it, I thought it looked WAY too busy, and some of the settings used were so esoteric I didn't even recognize the maps!
My goal is to create something not only wholly usable (no-one would go to 90% of that other map), but also be able to use the other settings wholesale, with few changes.
quote:
Originally posted by BlackAce
Nice work, Mark. I'm doing a very similar thing with shoehorning Golarion onto "Anchorome", just with Maztica tacked onto the bottom of Quadira and the eastern coast resembling the one on Toril.
I may do a series with Ansalon, Khorvaire, and Golarion all taking the place of Achorome. The layering I'm using now will allow me to drop the various continental silhouettes onto any map.
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Actually, one idea just occurred to me... if you're using eastern Oerik there, were you planning to make it the actual eastern Oerik, or just using the geography? Because melding Oerth and Toril would be a heck of a Spellplague event... I know you've already dropped the city of GH into your Realms as it is now, but this could be very interesting with a storyline similar to my original Oerth/Toril Spellplague script...
I would use the campaign entire, which is why I'm striving to keep the geography 'sensical' (climatically), keeping the scales as accurate as possible, and keeping the various cultures where they would make the most sense (hence my blending of Hepmonaland and Maztica). HOWEVER, anyone can do whatever the heck they like with these - I'm just playing around right now, and if folks just want to use the geography and NONE of the campaign material more power to them.
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
In addition to additions, there are a few minor alterations to the Faerun and Zakhara map I might make.<snip>
My next project will be my 'dream version' of FR, which will bring me back to my roots of mapping. I had shrunk Zakhara down and tacked it onto the end of Calimshan, but now I find it would be better just to move Calimshan over where Var the Golden is (all I need do is mirror it - flip it so east is west - and it should work perfectly). I also moved Thay down into The Shaar in my own FR campaigns, which really didn't efect the history over-much, and allowed me to add a nice Aboral Centaur kingdom in the ancient forest where Thay use to be. I have lots of other changes in mind, and when I get around to changing Faerūn itself, I will be taking any and all suggestions into consideration. I like the idea of 'exploding' the isles below Zakhara into a more realistic pattern.
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
So, *why*, exactly, is eastern Oerik fused with Toril? What are the over-arching effects on cannon?
As I have explained above, this is just an exercise for me - anyone can do whatever they like with these, including ignore them.
Use just the geography, or use the other settings complete - you can blame it all on the Spellplague, some other event, or just re-write history so it was always this way. Seriously, this is just a good way for me to ease myself back into mapping.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 18:19:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Depending on how much 4e lore you want want to use, you could have two maps. One of Toril with Faerun and friends, and then Abeir with Shyr, whatever took Laerakond's place (Maztica, presumably) and whatever stuff you couldn't quite fit onto your new Toril map. I'm often tempted to ignore the bit where Abeir re-separates from Faerun after the Plague, and having it at least somewhat accessible via high end portal magic.
Ack! Now you have me considering creating two worlds in the same orbital plane on opposite sides of the sun! The planets Dopple and Ganger... errr... I mean Toril and Abeir.
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
Well... Strictly speaking, you would not have to flip Ansalon - it's already in the southern hemisphere.
Now you've gone and done it... got me thinking about that nifty continent again... it is kinda the same shape as Osse.... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Jun 2010 18:21:50 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 20:55:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Ack! Now you have me considering creating two worlds in the same orbital plane on opposite sides of the sun! The planets Dopple and Ganger... errr... I mean Toril and Abeir.
Two maps? Come on, if you're going to do Abeir and Toril, you'll have to also do their Shadow and Faerie counterparts... And the Underdark for each of the above, obviously... |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 21:15:10
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| Good work so far Mark. Looking forward to more! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 23:43:40
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Damn damn damn damn....
I had a nice long post here, but I hit 'c' instead of cntrl 'C', and erased the whole thing.
I hate when that happens.
Anyway, this is for you Cleric Generic: an example of one of the changes I would have made -
New Calimshan
Most of what I had written concerned how easy it was to transfer the fluff over - it practically writes itself (Valashar becomes Veldorn, Mir becomes Var, Memnonnar becomes Estagund, etc...) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Jun 2010 23:46:55 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 23:58:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, if I were to run this abomination , I would say THAT was the effect of the Spellplague. That Oerth was the other half of Toril (what? You don't think the inhabitants of 'Abeir' would be calling it something different 30,000 years later?)
In fact, all these changes could be said have been caused by the Spellplague. The REAL secret was that the split didn't just happen once - over the course of countless millennia several events (like the Sundering, or tearfalls) have caused pieces of Toril to shift to other worlds. The magical chaos of the Spellplague was causing the world to break apart, so Ao had to pull a 'cold reboot' on the whole shebang.
BRILLIANT! This is what I was leaning toward in my post regarding inserting eastern Oerik into Toril... I don't recall which scroll that went into now, however... originally it was in my "Spellplague Revisited" scroll from last year sometime; link forthcoming.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
That means you could say that the inhabitants are aware of the changes, or you could say history itself has been re-written to accommodate the new continuity; personally, I think it would be much less of a headache to say most everyone knows about it. IN FACT, saying people are aware of all the new geography gives rise to a whole new set of adventures - exploration, new trade routes, opening up diplomatic relations with other countries, etc.
I agree on all counts here; that was my view when I was looking at inserting Laerakond into the otherwise-untouched pre-Spellplague Realms. I still think dropping it on Evermeet is the best idea. 
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I really wish I could fit Khorvaire and Ansalon - I could if I decided the planet was about twice the diameter of earth, and put all that in the southern hemisphere (which would shift the equater south), but I would have to flip those continents upside-down in order to keep the climates correct, and I'm striving for being able to use the various campaign world maps as-is. Also, it really would be overly redundant - I'm already having a problem with multiples of the same cultures.
Ansalon is a rather small southern-hemisphere near-polar continent... are you sure there isn't room? Check this link... But I agree with you on the redundancy thing. What I don't like about Tesar (see link) is that you lose the continuity of the Realms, being able to travel by land from Rashemen through the Endless Wastes to Kara-Tur... instead, you go from Rashemen through the Endless Wastes to the Dry Steppes to Eastern Oerik. While cool, it doesn't have the same feel. And I can't find Kara-Tur at all on the map, although it does have Golarion turned on its head attached to the Antarctic ice sheet near Ansalon. 
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Although I thought about how cool it would be to make a whole new planet, with no axial tilt and a 'ring of fire' around the equator, where the temperature reaches 200° and there is literally a wall of mist and then scalding steam dividing the north and the south. Thats getting a bit 'SciFi' though. It also would no longer be FR 'with things tacked-on' - Faerūn would get lost in all of that.
I agree on all counts here. That might make a cool idea for another world in the shaken-up Realmspace crystal sphere, however... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 00:43:43
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Okay, I managed to match the scale of the IK map with that of the other two.
WIP4 - scale corrected
I also filled-in the missing top left corner with the corner of the real Anchorome, and managed to get back both the islands as well. I'm especially proud of those - not only are they still the same size, but they are still at the same exact latitude. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 00:44:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Damn damn damn damn....
I had a nice long post here, but I hit 'c' instead of cntrl 'C', and erased the whole thing.
I hate when that happens.
That's when you resort to control Z. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 01:14:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Ansalon is a rather small southern-hemisphere near-polar continent... are you sure there isn't room? Check this link...
Well, Ansalon's size has fluctuated [somewhat severely at times] in the past. Originally, Ansalon was somewhere around 1,200 miles across. The Fifth Age tripled this by making it 3,600 miles across. Now, 'tis largely the standard offered in the 3e DLCS.
-- The Sage, avowed DRAGONLANCE fact-holder |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 02:05:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's when you resort to control Z.
I always forget about that. 
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Well, Ansalon's size has fluctuated [somewhat severely at times] in the past. Originally, Ansalon was somewhere around 1,200 miles across. The Fifth Age tripled this by making it 3,600 miles across. Now, 'tis largely the standard offered in the 3e DLCS.
So, would you say the version used on that other guy's mega-amalgam map was the original?
It looks a bit small, and the 1200 miles you stated would make it less then half the size of FR's main campaign area (and still a little bigger then Iron kingdom's 1164 miles across).
I was considering using it anyway - those dragon-riding knights could be fun - but I would rather stick to canon sizes for this, and the larger version may be a bit too big after all.
Oh... wait... Ummmm... Toril grew during the Spellplague...
yeah... thats the ticket
Yeah, I know I said this was 3e, but maybe this is 1385DR in alternate reality, and the only thing that happened was the two planets swapped some mass, and Toril came out with more. Hmmmm... I like that... perhaps Abeir could be a new moon in Amalgam-Toril's sky...
LOL! Then with a good telescope Faerūnians could still see Maztica!  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Jun 2010 04:13:12 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 02:40:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So, would you say the version used on that other guy's mega-amalgam map the original?
It looks a bit small, and the 1200 miles you stated would make it less then half the size of FR's main campaign area (and still a little bigger then Iron kingdom's 1164 miles across).
Pretty much. There looks to be some "cosmetic size" differences, but, then, the older DRAGONLANCE maps were notorious for that anyway, so... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 05:45:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Depending on how much 4e lore you want want to use, you could have two maps. One of Toril with Faerun and friends, and then Abeir with Shyr, whatever took Laerakond's place (Maztica, presumably) and whatever stuff you couldn't quite fit onto your new Toril map. I'm often tempted to ignore the bit where Abeir re-separates from Faerun after the Plague, and having it at least somewhat accessible via high end portal magic.
Ack! Now you have me considering creating two worlds in the same orbital plane on opposite sides of the sun! The planets Dopple and Ganger... errr... I mean Toril and Abeir.
<chop>
Erm... I've already considered that... and it's the option I'm going with in my Realms. Link here... sorry that took so long; CK's search was timing out and Google Advanced Search gave me too many choices.
I missed this post on my last visit to this scroll... oops. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 03 Jun 2010 06:11:40 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 06:15:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Okay, I managed to match the scale of the IK map with that of the other two.
WIP4 - scale corrected
I also filled-in the missing top left corner with the corner of the real Anchorome, and managed to get back both the islands as well. I'm especially proud of those - not only are they still the same size, but they are still at the same exact latitude.
I like it... very much, as I have plans for those northern islands, and if I use your map as my post-Spellplague Toril, I'd like them to still be around. 
So... where's Osse? And I like the idea of using the outline of Katashaka with the terrain of Nyambe, as previously mentioned...
Looking forward to WIP 5... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 03 Jun 2010 06:24:24 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 06:35:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Actually, one idea just occurred to me... if you're using eastern Oerik there, were you planning to make it the actual eastern Oerik, or just using the geography? Because melding Oerth and Toril would be a heck of a Spellplague event... I know you've already dropped the city of GH into your Realms as it is now, but this could be very interesting with a storyline similar to my original Oerth/Toril Spellplague script...
I would use the campaign entire, which is why I'm striving to keep the geography 'sensical' (climatically), keeping the scales as accurate as possible, and keeping the various cultures where they would make the most sense (hence my blending of Hepmonaland and Maztica). HOWEVER, anyone can do whatever the heck they like with these - I'm just playing around right now, and if folks just want to use the geography and NONE of the campaign material more power to them.
I like it... a lot... as I've already mentioned. I had already been toying with a way to merge Toril and Oerth, and then I got involved with Project Osse and promptly forgot about my Spellplague revision... but this is exactly (in concept) what I had in mind for my Spellplague rewrite. The execution part... I never really got that far, but in my original idea, Oerth in its entirety was lost; only the City of Greyhawk, the dungeons beneath it, the deities, and their worshippers were saved (with the exception of Stern Alia) and the latter were deposited in Osse (because I had nothing there at the time whatsoever).
This is very, very good. I'm getting sidetracked from Osse now and contemplating the Spellplague all over again.
Looking forward to seeing Katashaka/Nyambe and Osse, Mark! (Oh, and the big reason I'm attached to Katashaka's geography is simply because it's prominent in the maps of ancient Toril in the GHotR as adjacent to the old sarrukh empire of Mhairshaulk... which has given me evil ideas for certain long-dormant gates on the continent... (This, too, has been touched on elsewhere.) |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 07:30:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Damn damn damn damn....
I had a nice long post here, but I hit 'c' instead of cntrl 'C', and erased the whole thing.
I hate when that happens.
Anyway, this is for you Cleric Generic: an example of one of the changes I would have made -
New Calimshan
Most of what I had written concerned how easy it was to transfer the fluff over - it practically writes itself (Valashar becomes Veldorn, Mir becomes Var, Memnonnar becomes Estagund, etc...)
hahaha! looked at the link before reading the whole post and couldn't work out what was different... Good stuff! |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 08:57:36
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Well, like I said, I actually had a bunch of fluff to go with the new locale for Calimshan - it is indeed a good fit there.
Luiren becomes the realm formerly known as Meiritan, Durpar can take the place of Jhaamdath in Calimshan's history, etc... I would just swap Illithids for the Beholders and Drow in Calimshan's past - they are a better fit here. The Golden waters easily takes the place of the Lake of Steam, and you still have the Shaar nearby, etc...
I would just lose the stuff about Tashalar and Lapiliiya - instead have the 'Imperium' be the new nation that takes Calimshan's place on the west coast - the Holy Amnethryian Empire. They are know for being very imperialistic - just look at what they did in the name of their god, Ramaunhander, to the poor Mazticans (after the Tri-Faced Sun slew Helm, of course).
Oh, and lest I forget....
WIP5 - added Xendrik in place of katashaka |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 12:34:18
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| You are a master mapper Markus. Amazing! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 22:00:30
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Ansalon -
Pre-cataclysm, or post? Post seems more appropriate to me.
Having a bit of trouble finding any two maps that agree on scale - as far as I can tell, the continent actually SHRUNK by about 360 miles by 3rd edition. I think I see the problem - in the Fonstad maps it says the continent is 960 miles... North to south. On the newer maps that came with 3rd edition it is 960 miles east to west... I think someone made a boo-boo (otherwise, thats a helluva coincidence).
The atlas also goes on to give the E/W measurements at 1320 miles, but anyone looking at it quickly, and not reading through the whole paragraph (as I did the first time) is liable to make that mistake.
Anyhow, either way the continent is so small it fits, as a second southern continent connected to the south polar Ice cap (along with Xendrik).
I'm thinking about using Cerilia (Birthright) for Myrmidune, and tacking-on that small campaign area of Mystara to the east end of it (which actually works, culturally).
Or I might just shift Myrmidune further west (which I have to do regardless) and just paste the known World (Mystara) onto the eastern tip of that.
I'd like to just lose Osse, as I have katashaka - without the fan-based projects those continents were empty and boring anyway.
We'll see... this is starting to morph into my next project, wherein I rebuild Faerūn itself. If people choose to use the campaign material attached to these settings, I'm starting to see too much redundancy and I'm winding up with the same problem I have with the published Realms - similar cultures spread out too far apart, and looking very... pasted together.
NOTE: I said published Realms - I do not blame Ed for any of the weirdness attached to the redundancy, or the obvious outright copying of earth cultures (K-T, Mulhorand, etc).
BTW, I think many of you will be surprised by my version of FR - K-T will be mirrored and attached to the west end of Oerik (where I had it before I ever ran FR). I may just put Rokugon to Faerūn's east (Gasp!). If I keep the two continents fairly close I think it could work without causing unnatural redundancy.
Rokugon can be more like medieval Japan, and K-T more like Imperial China.
I'll finally put an end to this disgusting western habit of smooshing all eastern cultures together. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Jun 2010 22:07:43 |
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Topic |
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Building a 'better' FR
