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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 03:59:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'll finally put an end to this disgusting western habit of smooshing all eastern cultures together.
By Helm, man, have you gone mad! You would cruelly inconvenience people who want a neat, singular place to draw their stereotypes from. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 09:19:18
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I think I may have to give up on the idea of adding Ansalon - it looks ridiculous next to the others.
WIP6
Added the two southern 'islands' (sub-continents, really) to the map, and shifted Xendrk a bit south. I had it placed before so that Stormreach was on the equator, just like in Eberron, so now either it is just below the equator, or FR's equator shifted a bit south (which works).
I like the way Mystara fits there, although I will shift it a bit east. That island in the bottom right corner (if it stays) will then wind-up on the other side of the map, below Immoren/Oerik.
Once again, everything is precisely sized so all existing campaign maps will work (weather you use the setting, or just the geography).
I'm going to add that Island of Ebil Elves (Aerenal) from Eberron in somewhere - maybe lose that big island just west of Xendrik to do it. I'd like to lose Nibral as well, and put Melinbone' there. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Jun 2010 09:21:36 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 12:17:53
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So where at will you be shoehorning Castlemourn? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 20:17:30
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Funky stuff, an epic mega setting of great justice in the making, to be sure...
One question, if I may briefly go OT: What's that bit of land on Faerun above Icewind Dale, Hartsvale, Pelvuria, etc? The one with the island vaguely above the Reghed Glacier. I've seen it a couple of times but know approximately nil about it. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 20:50:44
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I wish I could, but I have no maps or knowledge of Castlemourne. 
But seriously, folks, I need some advice on Ansalon (Dragonlance) in that last WIP - should I do it? If it was about twice the size, or even larger it would work nicely under Zakhara, but as it is it looks ridiculous.
I might just stick it in that empty crook below Mystara , where you can see a bit of the southern continent poking up (below and between the two peninsulas to the south). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Jun 2010 20:54:21 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 00:56:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I wish I could, but I have no maps or knowledge of Castlemourne.
But seriously, folks, I need some advice on Ansalon (Dragonlance) in that last WIP - should I do it? If it was about twice the size, or even larger it would work nicely under Zakhara, but as it is it looks ridiculous.
To be honest, I actually like the geographical set up the way that it is. It tends to compliment the other set of continents rather well, in fact. But that's just me. I like world maps with plenty of "meat" to sink my "adventuring teeth" into. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 03:33:28
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I will be playing with the maps some more latter tonight - seems I do my best work in the wee hours of the morn - I must be on Sage time.
Hopefully I can find a look I like - maybe after I boil it down to just an outline I will like Ansalon's placement better. And I agree with sage, which is part of the reason for this experiment - I like a world with LOTS of places to go to, or at least have some lore about (like when I use a Kender, or Delkyr, or a giant friggin WarMachine, I will at least have some notion of where it came from).
I'm going to quote something from the other thread I posted in, because my response is better suited here -
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
The scale and equatorial placements are pretty rough, but otherwise accurate, I think. Bits of jungle, desert, temperate and ice all seem to line up at least vaguely.
Also, all the realms maps I've seen are flat and un-stretched, (flat) maps of earth get all warped the closer to the poles you go, which I don't see in the realms (a good thing), which might make accurately estimating the surface area of Toril's land-masses a bit of a pain in the bum...
Yes, after some play, I've come to much the same conclusion - I can't really count all that planetary surface we don't see to the North and South, simply because on a globe that area is actually getting smaller and smaller until it disappears to a 'zero point' at the poles.
The planet, to scale
Okay, obviously I should have used a normal-looking Toril for this, but you get the idea. The real map of FR would actually be much smaller (my K-T is a bit longer, forcing me to move Osse over a few hundred miles), and my 'Oerik-as-Anchorome' is certainly MUCH bigger. Regardless, you can still see I have a tremendous amount of room left on the planet.
But don't be mislead as I was - the top and bottom of the map should really be a dot, not a line 27,883 Miles long. I have to see if there is some tool I can use to give me a reasonable facsimile of what Toril really looks like. I found a 'Polar projection' tool in PS awhile back, so maybe I'll get lucky. If I had Campaign Cartographer, I would use that nifty projection that Brian James used on his map in the last CandleKeep Compendium - that was SWEET. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Jun 2010 03:58:51 |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 06:01:56
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Loving the full world map there Markustay!
Still lurking about, trying to keep track of everything you're doing, but it's looking pretty darn awesome so far! |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 21:30:37
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| Kick out Oceania in the Known World for Ansalon |
z455t |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2010 : 23:32:27
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Nice job CG. 
quote:
Originally posted by Kno
Kick out Oceania in the Known World for Ansalon
That position hasn't been finalized for Mystara, nor anything around it - I haven't even traced it's outline yet. I will be moving it around later, and try your position suggestion as well.
I wanted Aerenal (from Eberron), but I don't like how it looks -
Faerūn w/Aerenal
Thats where I got stuck, and why I haven't progressed any further; I can't get past how Nimbral is stuck in Aerenal's Island chain. I might just have to lose 'Nuberia' in exchange for Aerenal (which works). I also tried to place it so that it had the same relative position it did to Xendrik in Eberron, but that had a couple of islands over-lapping Chult. I could have shifted Faerūn further east to allow for that, but I kinda like how everything else is falling out. Besides, if I do that I'd be tempted to paste Larakond in between GH and FR, and that would mess up how nicely the situation with the Northmen worked out. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Jun 2010 23:33:16 |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2010 : 08:03:30
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Either decrease the size, or move it into the Feywild like Evermeet, or there's space southeast of Zakhara.
I like how you sliced up Zakhara Cleric, the map looks more natural.
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z455t |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2010 : 08:34:02
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| You could stick Nimbral 'behind the veil' a bit like Evermeet and get it out of the way. Also, as much as I like Laerakond, something about it doesn't look quite right next to the larger, more detailed and natural looking land masses. I found a couple of vaguely Laerakond (that is, half eaten doughnut) alternatives, but nothing that wasn't a bit 'meh'. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2010 : 21:43:06
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Well, its not that Nimbral is all that important - I actually liked the way its outline fit into the Aerenal chain - I just think things are looking a bit 'cluttered' there. I think the large Island I named 'Nuberia' (Numibia on some of my early ones, until I discovered there really was such a place!) is not necessary - I wanted to keep canon FR intact on this map, but I'm thinking more and more that I can replace those regions NEVER covered with other, similar regions from other settings (hence, why Xendrik has now replaced Katashaka).
I'm leaning toward replacing the more southern BIG island with Jakandor as well. That placement might be a bit too far south though - I'm thinking that is a more tropical environment. I also think that it would be a very cool juxtaposition to the nearby Aerenal (replacing that other huge island). Both are tropical, and both cultures are connected with 'the dead'. Also, Sahu, 'The Island of the Necromancer Kings' (tCBoN) is also fairly close to those two, being just on the other side of Zakhara, so we got us a whole 'death thing' going on in the southern hemisphere.
quote:
Originally posted by Kno
I like how you sliced up Zakhara Cleric, the map looks more natural.
Agreed - I will try to 'explode' the islands on my next version as well.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Jun 2010 21:45:19 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2010 : 22:48:37
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Was just playing around - I did the outline of Ansalon hoping it would look better - it doesn't.
New WIP
Why does that setting have to be so damn small? I may just say screw it and double it's size, but that would go against the whole purpose of this project - to get each setting to work cohesively with the others (and maintain the integrity of each campaign's scale).
Anyhow, I also played with Mystara's placement, and I really LOVE the way it looks there, wrapping around Osse. It looks very 'natural'. Unfortunately that doesn't work, because 'The Known World' (main campaign area) is now in a polar region, and the land that is supposedly eternally frozen falls out on the equator. As pretty as that looks I'm going to have to try something different - I refuse to blame climactic geography on 'magic' and 'the gods'.
The only thing I am very happy with is the new position for Aerenal - I will probably now drop the equator down so it goes through Stormreach again, which changes it slightly in regards to the Realms, but that's a minor point. Having the equator more centralized to the desert lands of Zakhara seems like a good idea anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
I found a couple of vaguely Laerakond (that is, half eaten doughnut) alternatives, but nothing that wasn't a bit 'meh'.
Reminds me too much of The Belgariad map. As much as I love those stories, I really, REALLY disliked the continental map. However, using that Belgariad map (probably the prettiest version I've seen of it) gives me an idea of how else to fit it into pre-4e FR campaigns. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Jun 2010 22:57:37 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2010 : 23:23:21
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Cheers Kno! Also, Markus, if you want to use my fiddled Zakhara, whole or in part, please feel free to do so. Shifting those islands around can be a long and fiddly job.
What you could do is shift Osse up a bit into the giant bay of Kara Tur and move some parts of this uber-setting with the red text under it, possibly with those big islands currently between Xen'Drik and Zakhara. That might do something about their awkwardness and add a pleasing symmetry to the map. Cool though it looks, Red Text Land is pretty huge...
EDIT for reading comprehension: Red Text land is Mystara, got it... you could perhaps move Osse up a bit and possibly rotate most if not all of Mystara clock-wise to fit under it? |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
Edited by - Cleric Generic on 08 Jun 2010 23:25:29 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2010 : 23:37:03
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I was actually considering dropping Osse down; especially since I'm shifting the Equator down a bit. If I keep Osse as is (I still like Harn as Osse - Osse is one ugly landmass), I will probably put it SE of Dweepam (the southern portion of the K-T continent, below Malatra).
I wasn't planning on using the whole of Mystara - just the main campaign area - not sure how much of 'red text land' I will be keeping. I always hated that huge peninsula (Arm of the gods), but I like the way it looks so far to the south... oh well. I need that continet more centralized to allow Alphatia to double for our Orgoth invaders in the IK part of the map. If I put it wholly in the northern hemisphere it would make more sense geographically, but I always imagined Orgoth being to the SW of Immoren (although AFAIK, it has never clearly been stated where it is, other then "across the sea").
Must do real work now - be back later. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Jun 2010 23:40:00 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 05:09:38
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 I fall offline for two weeks and all kinds of stuff happens...
To be honest, while I found the "Candlekeep is no longer edition neutral" scroll entertaining, it also irritated me in places... not the places I don't like to scratch in public, but I did experience more than one stabbing pain behind the eyes.
Anyway, the world-building looks great, MT! I'll be getting back to "Project Isle" shortly myself... hopefully it hasn't withered away and died in my absence. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 08:09:58
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We got side-tracked when the circus came to town.
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
<snip> Some of the bits I've removed could easily fit under Malatra there as well, of course.
I hadn't noticed this earlier - that looks really cool.
The Mystaran climates almost work - that dark patch is ever-frost - but now Osse has gotten a bit chilly.
It does look really cool like that though. Now that I know people still have some interest, I'll work on this again tomorrow. I actually started my 'Dream Faerūn' project since this thread. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Jun 2010 19:08:14 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 08:15:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I hadn't noticed this early - that looks really cool.
The Mystaran climates almost work - that dark patch is ever-frost - but now Osse has gotten a bit chilly.
It does look really cool like that though. Now that I know people still have some interest, I'll work on this again tomorrow. I actually started my 'Dream Faerūn' project since this thread.
Cheers!
Also, of course people have interest in your work! And what's this 'Dream Faerun' thingy, then?
Good stuff. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 09:33:37
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Just had a gander at the link and was very impressed
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Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2010 : 06:10:47
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Newest WIP
Blue lines indicate the Arctic & Antarctic circles (And yes, I realize they should be called something else).
I shifted Mystara into a spot where all the canon climate works. In fact, the Equator and arctic circles are nearly in the exact spots. If the continent were a little bigger it would have lined up perfectly... which makes sense, because Mystara is the size of Earth, and Toril is a little bigger.
Not as pretty as other layouts I might have done, but the Known World (main campaign area) falls out at the same latitude as Cormyr, which is perfect. I had a grid on this thing and it was surprising to see how nicely everything falls out.
I did lower the Equator just a tad from canon Toril, but now it works out perfectly for both Mystara and Xendrik, and still makes plenty of sense Faerūn-wise.
I really need something to finish off that big landmass under Mystara - I was even thinking about flipping Eberron on its head. I will be adding Taladas to the NE of Ansalon, as I've seen on other maps, and probably put Argonnessen (Eberron's dragon-continent) below Kara-Tur.
Still, I'm starting to have a problem finding another southern hemisphere continent for this thing. Anyone know of a good one? Why are so many damn fantasy campaigns set on northern continents? I think this project has made me reconsider my own homebrew - I may just invert the whole thing just to be unique (aside from Ansalon).
I could always use a novel setting instead, but I like that it has been all RPG thus far and that all the maps still work canonically. I think Alphatia is placed well to be the Orgoth for the IK setting there. I may get rid of more of those other islands around there though; I only kept Oceania because the way it wraps around onto the other side gives us a point of reference. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Jun 2010 06:23:07 |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2010 : 06:59:50
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Perhaps the Midnight campaign setting? Although this would also have to be inverted to work.
There were a few others that might work, some conversions from Dragon Magazine a while back. I'll see if I can find the maps, but Shannara and Westeros were both on that list (and also meet the Novel world criteria as well).
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2010 : 10:24:24
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Cleric - technically, I have LOWERED the arctic circle, becuase I had to lower the Equator bu a few hundred miles. It should be about a 1/4 inch higher on that map (approx.).
That was all calculated scientifically - I went to lts of science sites about latitudes and what-not, and use the most accurate data available to calculate toril's size PERFECTLY.
That map represents the entire (flattened) surface area of the planet TO SCALE. You just need imagine that the top and bottom edge of the map is actually a point, rather then a line 15" long.
I'm going to try it with the polar-projection tool I found tomorrow - should be interesting to see how close together those northern regions REALLY are.
Edit: Polar projection
Edit2: I've seen the Mystara map, but I can't seem to find the other one anywhere (although I tracked down the game its from). Care to send me the original? I won't use it simply because i am unfamiliar with the world - I won't risk loosing 'realism' and setting continuity by sticking ridiculous things next to each other.
I'm also trying to avoid Novel settings - authors get pissy when you use their intellectual properties, MUCH more so then game companies. Some novels have RPG settings retroactively attached to them, like Hyboria and the Young kingdoms, so I've considered those (Hyboria is dull as dirt).
I have found an interesting 'world map' of Rokugan showing more then the usual amount of territory, and it appears to be in the southern hemisphere... a distinct possibility. I would definitely use it if I knew how canon that world map was - I've only seen the ones that show the usual campaign area.
The idea of this exercise is not to just use the maps, but also to be able to use all the settings involved and leave the continuity primarily intact. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Jun 2010 10:59:54 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Building a 'better' FR
