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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jun 2010 : 11:12:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
The Iron Kingdoms books were ones I always regretted not picking up... but not nearly as much as I regret missing the Tome of Horrors sequels; apparently there were three Tomes of Horrors in all? I think I only ever got the first one... but 90% of my third-party d20 stuff is in the same basement as all my 1E and 2E books... and hence far too far away.
I've been tracking down the Iron Kingdoms stuff a little at a time. I've now got everything but the Witchfire Trilogy. Amazingly, despite the fact that most of these books go for well over cover price, I've gotten everything for under cover price, and in very good condition, too! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2010 : 15:48:48
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| Whoever is doing one of the forested regions should include the Phanaton in there! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2010 : 18:22:11
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I'm really liking the way this is coming out - now that I got The Flaeness placed I can move forward with some of my other ideas.
I was going to substitute the main Mystara continent (Brun) for Osse - its a pretty good fit, although obviously the shape isn't quite right (but both are pretty-much 'round' in a blobby sort of way). However, I really don't like the entire continent, and in fact, don't really care for much of the rest of fluff outside of the main region either.
So I was going to just give up on that idea, except for one really cool thing - Alphatia makes a perfect 'Orgoth' for the new iron kingdoms region I pasted in. I was thinking that the history from those boxed sets could be a century or two out of date, and some Scro invaded Alphatia and bred with them, creating a race of uber HalfOrcs (the Orgoth). Or you could just as easily keep them wholly human and just say 'Orgoth' is the term the Immoren's call the Alphatians by.
Anyhow, since I do like the Mystara supplements (Ed wrote one!), and that area itself is relatively small, I could just convert part of Osse so it works, rather then substituting the whole thing.
Any thoughts?
Should I do a mock-up of both? I had to flip Brun to make it work (the cold area needed to be on the bottom, near the southern pole, otherwise the campaign material wouldn't make much sense), but I'm not sure if I would need to do that if I just spliced it into Osse. If I just do the patch-job, I wouldn't have to worry about the areas outside of the main campaign area of Mystara (The Known World) - I could keep the N/S axis intact.
There would still be some strangeness racially, considering there are both orientals and a Mongol-like people there, but considering the proximity of kara-Tur, that works. The Orientals could be some long-lost colony, or even a group of rebels who left after losing the war (a millenia ago).
The Mongol-like people are easy enough to explain - the last time a horde of Tuigan (Taangan, really) tried to invade Kara-Tur, the god Monkey duped their leader by posing as a guide who would lead them across the mountains by a secret path, and instead lead them through a massive portal into Osse (he is actually known for this sort of thing - he's done it at least twice before in canon).
That expalins why those groups are there, and the rest need no explanations (Caucasian humans, Dwarves, Elves, orcs, halflings).
I'm leaning more toward the 'patch-job' model myself, just so I can leave the crazy Red Steel area out (Ninja Tortles, anyone?). Sadly, if I were doing a mock-up of my ideal 4e world, I would definately use the Red Steel area for the coast of Anchorome - not only is the slightly more advanced tech appropriate then, but the whole Cinabar/Red Steel angle works beautifully with Spellscars - they were really made for each other.
Ohhhh, how I ramble.... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Jun 2010 18:25:22 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2010 : 18:32:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
<snip> ...and yes, I agree entirely that Golarion should be kept separate; I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing more of that world when the second (Pathfinder) edition of the campaign setting comes out. I miss the days of campaign settings coming with half a dozen (or more) poster map sheets (Old Grey Box)... sigh...
Heh-heh-heh
 mappy goodness... but I still want to see more of Golarion beyond the Inner Sea region... particularly at that size...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2010 : 18:40:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, I lost Evermeet in the process, but if WotC can do it, why can't I?
I prefer more to the south anyway - that extreme northern latitude just didn't sit well with me.<chop>
I think it's great without Evermeet at all, actually... Evermeet was always a little too "Tolkien" for me. Of course, shifting it into the Feywild was much the same... the "Straight Road" and all that... in fact, the Spellplague's entire scope of geographical effects in that context are ripped straight out of the late Second Age of Middle-Earth...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2010 : 18:46:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm really liking the way this is coming out - now that I got The Flaeness placed I can move forward with some of my other ideas.
I was going to substitute the main Mystara continent (Brun) for Osse - its a pretty good fit, although obviously the shape isn't quite right (but both are pretty-much 'round' in a blobby sort of way). However, I really don't like the entire continent, and in fact, don't really care for much of the rest of fluff outside of the main region either.
So I was going to just give up on that idea, except for one really cool thing - Alphatia makes a perfect 'Orgoth' for the new iron kingdoms region I pasted in. I was thinking that the history from those boxed sets could be a century or two out of date, and some Scro invaded Alphatia and bred with them, creating a race of uber HalfOrcs (the Orgoth). Or you could just as easily keep them wholly human and just say 'Orgoth' is the term the Immoren's call the Alphatians by.
Anyhow, since I do like the Mystara supplements (Ed wrote one!), and that area itself is relatively small, I could just convert part of Osse so it works, rather then substituting the whole thing.
Any thoughts?
Should I do a mock-up of both? I had to flip Brun to make it work (the cold area needed to be on the bottom, near the southern pole, otherwise the campaign material wouldn't make much sense), but I'm not sure if I would need to do that if I just spliced it into Osse. If I just do the patch-job, I wouldn't have to worry about the areas outside of the main campaign area of Mystara (The Known World) - I could keep the N/S axis intact.
There would still be some strangeness racially, considering there are both orientals and a Mongol-like people there, but considering the proximity of kara-Tur, that works. The Orientals could be some long-lost colony, or even a group of rebels who left after losing the war (a millenia ago).
The Mongol-like people are easy enough to explain - the last time a horde of Tuigan (Taangan, really) tried to invade Kara-Tur, the god Monkey duped their leader by posing as a guide who would lead them across the mountains by a secret path, and instead lead them through a massive portal into Osse (he is actually known for this sort of thing - he's done it at least twice before in canon).
That expalins why those groups are there, and the rest need no explanations (Caucasian humans, Dwarves, Elves, orcs, halflings).
I'm leaning more toward the 'patch-job' model myself, just so I can leave the crazy Red Steel area out (Ninja Tortles, anyone?). Sadly, if I were doing a mock-up of my ideal 4e world, I would definately use the Red Steel area for the coast of Anchorome - not only is the slightly more advanced tech appropriate then, but the whole Cinabar/Red Steel angle works beautifully with Spellscars - they were really made for each other.
Ohhhh, how I ramble....
I love all of those ideas, MT... let me know how it goes.
In the meantime, I'd like to find out how the original topic of this scroll is going... scribes working on the project originally described here: how are things going? Rob? Darkmeer? Althen artren? I wish I had more to report, but I'm spending too long here just keeping up with everyone else's posts; I need to get moved and reconnected. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2010 : 18:50:39
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Its one of the things I like about 4e (no, I'm not warming to it, merely learning to live with it).
Evermeet should have ALWAYS been enigmatic and hard to reach (more then just those physical barriers that were in place). Having just read the Mists of Avalon, I like the way Marion Bradley handled such things: Avalon (and in this case Evermeet) is 'in the mists' - you can always find it if you know the way, and your heart is in the right place. But if you don't have 'The Sight', and do not know the way, then you will never find it, not matter how far you sail.
Ergo, Evermeet is still there - it can't be placed on the map though, because different folks take different routes to reach it, and some may have to sail thousands of leagues before reaching her, and others can find the isle just off-shore.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 06:28:13
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Okay, accidentally posted in 'Flying Monkeys' thread something that should have been here - I'm getting confused now.
I think I'll move my stuff to its own thread so as not to intefere (and to keep me from going mental). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 07:56:14
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Jakk:
I should have something up this weekend. Been busy writing, and it will be a rough draft at that. I'm making sure that not a lot needs to be edited out, but I also want to make some serious headway with each chunk I put out.
I have some location names, as well as some interesting ideas for the Sktak, currently.
The halflings and elves are the next on my plate (thus the reason I haven't posted anything yet). I want the entire desert to have a stronger outline before I post it up.
The halfling thought is to use Ghostwise halflings that were transported by the resident evil dragon to use as "farmers" for his hunting grounds, and he drove them off due to their ineptness and they fled all the way to the desert, where they've become a very feral cannibalistic society.
The Elves... well, we'll just say I'm eyeing the above Thri Kreen notes and figuring something out there.
That's the teaser for now
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 08:56:46
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Darkmeer:
Feral Ghostwise halflings...  I like it.
Elves and thri-kreen... I don't know if you've seen the full notes for the thri-kreen yet; I sent what I'd done to Rob last week, and I don't know if he shared those notes or not. If you PM me with your email address, I can send you the PDF and my rough thri-kreen map. What I can tell you right now is that the elves and thri-kreen had a great war centuries ago, and my thoughts are that they have been at peace ever since. If you have something interesting to shake that up, I'm definitely intrigued. 
To all scribes in this project: I'm still in the process of moving, and my Internet connection at my new place isn't getting connected until the afternoon of the 12th... so it'll probably be early on the 13th in Candlekeep time before I am back online with any regularity.
To Rob, and other scribes involved in the project: apologies for the runaway digression on the previous page; I see it as something positive, that we're encouraging others to really do something with the Realms and prove that reinventing the wheel in Faerun for every edition is not the way to make the world grow. We're back on track in this scroll now, and I'll do my part to keep things that way.
Anyway, I need to get back to packing, or send myself to bed for sleep... definitely one or the other. G'night.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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HandsomeRob
Seeker
68 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 18:19:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
In the meantime, I'd like to find out how the original topic of this scroll is going... scribes working on the project originally described here: how are things going? Rob? Darkmeer? Althen artren? I wish I had more to report, but I'm spending too long here just keeping up with everyone else's posts; I need to get moved and reconnected.
I had a good idea for the Lake Panthala region (competing theocracies), but I'm having trouble coming up with ideas for stone-age humans. I wonder if we should scrap them and replace them with something a bit more interesting? There are lots of great ideas for the nonhumans of Osse so far, but not a whole lot has been suggested for the humans.
A reminder to all, I have the necessary software/fonts/graphics to make whatever we come up with look just like a 3rd edition Forgotten Realms product... (for example: http://sorol.wikispaces.com/file/view/Osse.pdf/143944335/Osse.pdf)... so I'll nominate myself as official secretary for this project. If anyone has something written up for Osse please send it to me and I'll work it into the master file. Including all the race information that I've gathered so far, it's up to about 25 pages now.
-Rob |
Visit Sorol today: http://sorol.wikispaces.com |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 21:27:32
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Okay, finally read through this thread from the beginning, and I'm super-impressed with Rob's version of Osse. I would also like to thank Tyranthraxus for pointing out those files in the FR Atlas directory, and also thank Patrakis for making it known in the 1st place that there actually was a little bit of canon geography for Osse.
Don't be afraid that you are making this 'too busy' - Osse is larger then almost every other RPG setting out there - The Heartlands themselves are immense compared to most of them.
Like I said, I love Rob's map, and now that I see my links were broken, have you seen my version of the island south of Osse? You could place your minotaurs there. If the minotaur culture was similar to the one on Krynn (Nordic-like), then they would work in a chillier climate (although Osse isn't nearly as far south as Australia is). Also, there is a decent-sized island between osse and kara-tur, and you could build a nice island chain (a'la Polynesia or the Carribean) around that, and have your minotaurs from there. having a Seafaring, barbarian culture between KT and Osse might give yet another reason why there wasn't much traffic between the two.
And yes, because this continent is filled with behemoths (the new, non-derivitive name for dinosaurs) and pliocene-era creatures (what D&D likes to call 'Dire') it makes an IDEAL hunting grounds for Inferno. This is also very much in keeping with FR's theme - these creatures did not 'die off' as they did on our world - they were mostly hunted to near-extinction (aside from humans, they also had things like Giants and Dragons to contend with!), and have been driven-off into the far corners of the world. Being a 'hunting ground' is very different from being a 'dragon Kingdom', and besides, AFAIK, this project is 3e, wherein there are no dragon kingdoms currently existing (aside, perhaps, from the non-canon one in Myrmidune).
For the islands north of Anchorome (which I just placed on my Amalgam map), these guys would be awesome -
Dilbians - a 'bear' people
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Jun 2010 23:56:55 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 23:36:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Okay, finally read through this thread from the beginning, and I'm super-impressed with Rob's version of Osse. I would also like to thank Tyranthraxus for pointing out those files in the FR Atlas directory, and also thank Patrakis for making it known in the 1st place that there actually was a little bit of canon geography for Osse.
You mean you didn't read through it from the beginning before you pulled it off topic? 
I was also pleased to know that there was something canon for Osse outside of a connection to one novel, if only topographically. It gave us a starting point to work from... although we'd already started before learning this...  The only one whose work it really affected at that time was Rob, and it didn't seem to slow him down much.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Don't be afraid that you are making this 'too busy' - Osse is larger then almost every other RPG setting out there - The Heartlands themselves are immense compared to most of them.
True... and thanks for that Osse-Faerun superimposing image, btw; that really helped us get a sense of the scale we were working with.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Like I said, I love Rob's map, and now that I see my links were broken, have you seen my version of the island south of Osse? You could place your minotaurs there. If the minotaur culture was similar to the one on Krynn (Nordic-like), then they would work in a chillier climate (although Osse isn't nearly as far south as Australia is). Also, there is a decent-sized island between osse and kara-tur, and you could build a nice island chain (a'la Polynesia or the Carribean) around that, and have your minotaurs from there. having a Seafaring, barbarian culture between KT and Osse might give yet another reason why there wasn't much traffic between the two.
I like the southern seafaring raiders idea... but I might not use the minotaurs for them. I have something in mind for the minotaurs in southern Anchorome... and for the time being, we're sticking with canon continent outlines for Anchorome and Katashaka, largely because Rob has done such a great job with morphing Nyambe into Katashaka's coastlines and also because we had set out to keep this as close to published pre-Spellplague canon as possible. That being said, MT, I think I'm altogether ecstatic with the idea of using what you're putting together as the post-Spellplague "Greyrealms" ("Hawkrealms"? Toerthil?), given the backstory I had already cooked up for a similar twist on the Spellplague.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
For the islands north of Anchorome (which I just placed on my Amalgam map), these guys would be awesome -
Dilbians - a 'bear' people
And yes, because this continent is filled with behemoths (the new, non-derivitive name for dinosaurs) and pliocene-era creatures (what D&D likes to call 'Dire') it makes an IDEAL hunting grounds for Inferno. This is also very much in keeping with FR's theme - these creatures did not 'die off' as they did on our world - they were mostly hunted to near-extinction (aside from humans, they also had things like Giants and Dragons to contend with!), and have been driven-off into the far corners of the world. Being a 'hunting ground' is very different from being a 'dragon Kingdom', and besides, AFAIK, this project is 3e, wherein there are no dragon kingdoms currently existing (aside, perhaps, from the non-canon one in Myrmidune).
Myrmidune as described in the CK Compendium is something that I would love to see incorporated into our project here. I also plan to insert Laerakond into my Realms somewhere; exactly how that's going to happen is up in the air now, depending on how far these projects ("Project Isle" and Toerthil... that's starting to sound good now... ) go in scope.
I may be away from the 'Keep for a while. On paper, I have moved (within town) as of June 1, and the heat and hot water are connected in my name since then as well. In reality, everything's in boxes except for the computer that I'm typing on now, and I'm just trying to find a mover that I can afford. In practice, I won't have a 'Net connection at home until June 12. As a result, the only real reason I'm in any sort of hurry to move is, I'm on vacation this week, and next week I'm working almost full-time (37.5 hours). I don't want to be unpacking and working 7.5-hour days. My soon-to-be-former roommates (who are kicking me out to make room for their growing family) are otherwise great about all of this, and I'm going to leave my laptop behind here so I can stop by and visit them (and check in here and on my email) until I get set up properly at my new address.
Moving is like dirty laundry... it stinks, but it's inevitable and just has to be dealt with. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 02 Jun 2010 23:37:53 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 00:21:30
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quote:
Originally posted by HandsomeRob
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
In the meantime, I'd like to find out how the original topic of this scroll is going... scribes working on the project originally described here: how are things going? Rob? Darkmeer? Althen artren? I wish I had more to report, but I'm spending too long here just keeping up with everyone else's posts; I need to get moved and reconnected.
I had a good idea for the Lake Panthala region (competing theocracies), but I'm having trouble coming up with ideas for stone-age humans. I wonder if we should scrap them and replace them with something a bit more interesting? There are lots of great ideas for the nonhumans of Osse so far, but not a whole lot has been suggested for the humans.<chop>
-Rob
If you want to scrap the stone-age tribes, go for it; I don't think such groups would last long surrounded by groups with at least bronze-age tech and/or a hungry super-Colossal red dragon anyway...
Edit: Rob: Have you searched the WotC Osse Project thread for ideas for humans? That's all I've got right now, sorry. 
I'll be thinking and writing as much as possible about the Sahuagin, Whisper Gnomes, Dream Dwarves, and Goliaths while I'm moving and waiting for my 'Net hookup; and I'm getting some ideas for those outlying oceanic islands as well thanks to MarkusTay...
Note that all of the above paragraph shouldn't discourage anyone else from sharing ideas for those four races just listed. I'm not as familiar with the Whisper Gnomes or Dream Dwarves as I am with other versions of those races, so any general pointers are welcome.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 03 Jun 2010 00:26:26 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 00:23:52
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I wound-up editting my above post after reading your quotes - it sounded like I was saying to put prehistoric creatures in Myrmidune, which is not what I meant (my thoughts tend to be pretty chaotic).
@Rob - For prehistoric people (humans), I was thinking basing them on the Clovis people, hunting Banta-like Osse creatures rather then Mammoths. However, you have to make them RPG worthy, so their should be something special about their stone weapons. Perhaps their is a type of meteoric flint they use, which is harder then steel and capable of holding a decent edge? That might be a little too advanced for them - maybe give that to another group..
How about bone? Weren't you guys thinking about borrowing some Athas stuff? Some of those critters are awesome, and if the cave-people have found a way to work Troga-bone it might give them enough of an edge to balance things.
And NO, I don't know what troga-bone is... I just made that up. I assume their is a 'graveyard' where certain enormous creatures go to die - Dragons? Infernal T-Rex's? Waste worms? (Ash Worms from Sandstorm - you guys should mine the crap out of that source). Anyhow, figure they found this stash of some type of bone that is just as good as metal when treated properly (Heated in lava, soaked in a holy pool, sprayed with a strange bone-eating microbe that leaves behind a near-magical waste... whatever). Assume the process must be simple enough for these folks to grasp (and probably done by their Shaman who claims it is 'Spirit magic' (which it just might be).
So these cave people keep the 'Holy Site' where they get this stuff secret, and it at least gives them half a chance against more advanced foes. You could also make them bigger, like the D&D Neanderthals (Frostburn), even though historically primitive peoples were actually MUCH smaller, NOT bigger. If these guys were similar in height and strength to half-Ogres it would make them different enough from other primitive peoples around Toril.
Now I keep thinking about that ancient episode of Star trek wherin the shuttlecraft breaks down and the crew is being terrorized by a bunch of giant cavemen.
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
... and for the time being, we're sticking with canon continent outlines for Anchorome and Katashaka, largely because Rob has done such a great job with morphing Nyambe into Katashaka's coastlines <snip>
Okay, where, exactly, is this?
I had started to do just that a long time ago, after doing the coast of Katashaka (with minor revisions), but decided that finishing KT was more important (which I also never did). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Jun 2010 00:27:29 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 00:28:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
<chop>
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
... and for the time being, we're sticking with canon continent outlines for Anchorome and Katashaka, largely because Rob has done such a great job with morphing Nyambe into Katashaka's coastlines <snip>
Okay, where, exactly, is this?
I had started to do just that a long time ago, after doing the coast of Katashaka (with minor revisions), but decided that finishing KT was more important (which I also never did).
It's in the world map done by Rob... link shortly... here
And here is a direct link to the Zoomify map itself. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 03 Jun 2010 00:31:31 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 01:01:56
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OMG!
He used the stuff I wrote for the Compendium.
Looking back, I'd definitely rename some of that stuff....
Once again, Nice work there Rob. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 06:50:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
<snip>
@Rob - For prehistoric people (humans), I was thinking basing them on the Clovis people, hunting Banta-like Osse creatures rather then Mammoths. However, you have to make them RPG worthy, so their should be something special about their stone weapons. Perhaps their is a type of meteoric flint they use, which is harder then steel and capable of holding a decent edge? That might be a little too advanced for them - maybe give that to another group..
How about bone? Weren't you guys thinking about borrowing some Athas stuff? Some of those critters are awesome, and if the cave-people have found a way to work Troga-bone it might give them enough of an edge to balance things.
And NO, I don't know what troga-bone is... I just made that up. I assume their is a 'graveyard' where certain enormous creatures go to die - Dragons? Infernal T-Rex's? Waste worms? (Ash Worms from Sandstorm - you guys should mine the crap out of that source). Anyhow, figure they found this stash of some type of bone that is just as good as metal when treated properly (Heated in lava, soaked in a holy pool, sprayed with a strange bone-eating microbe that leaves behind a near-magical waste... whatever). Assume the process must be simple enough for these folks to grasp (and probably done by their Shaman who claims it is 'Spirit magic' (which it just might be).
So these cave people keep the 'Holy Site' where they get this stuff secret, and it at least gives them half a chance against more advanced foes. You could also make them bigger, like the D&D Neanderthals (Frostburn), even though historically primitive peoples were actually MUCH smaller, NOT bigger. If these guys were similar in height and strength to half-Ogres it would make them different enough from other primitive peoples around Toril.
<chop>
I'm liking this, Mark... Rob? Does this give you any ideas for the Osselithic types?
And there really is some great stuff in both Frostburn and Sandstorm... particularly the latter, for desert monsters. I think I've mentioned a few in my thri-kreen write-up...
And yes, I was looking at basing the Osse elves and halflings somewhat on the Athasian varieties, and I really like what Darkmeer's done with them so far. I've also heavily based the Osse thri-kreen on the Athasian versions thereof, including the various subraces (and changing a few things about them in the process, of course). |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 03 Jun 2010 06:54:33 |
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HandsomeRob
Seeker
68 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 14:27:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
<snip>
@Rob - For prehistoric people (humans), I was thinking basing them on the Clovis people, hunting Banta-like Osse creatures rather then Mammoths. However, you have to make them RPG worthy, so their should be something special about their stone weapons. Perhaps their is a type of meteoric flint they use, which is harder then steel and capable of holding a decent edge? That might be a little too advanced for them - maybe give that to another group..
How about bone? Weren't you guys thinking about borrowing some Athas stuff? Some of those critters are awesome, and if the cave-people have found a way to work Troga-bone it might give them enough of an edge to balance things.
And NO, I don't know what troga-bone is... I just made that up. I assume their is a 'graveyard' where certain enormous creatures go to die - Dragons? Infernal T-Rex's? Waste worms? (Ash Worms from Sandstorm - you guys should mine the crap out of that source). Anyhow, figure they found this stash of some type of bone that is just as good as metal when treated properly (Heated in lava, soaked in a holy pool, sprayed with a strange bone-eating microbe that leaves behind a near-magical waste... whatever). Assume the process must be simple enough for these folks to grasp (and probably done by their Shaman who claims it is 'Spirit magic' (which it just might be).
So these cave people keep the 'Holy Site' where they get this stuff secret, and it at least gives them half a chance against more advanced foes. You could also make them bigger, like the D&D Neanderthals (Frostburn), even though historically primitive peoples were actually MUCH smaller, NOT bigger. If these guys were similar in height and strength to half-Ogres it would make them different enough from other primitive peoples around Toril.
<chop>
I'm liking this, Mark... Rob? Does this give you any ideas for the Osselithic types?
And there really is some great stuff in both Frostburn and Sandstorm... particularly the latter, for desert monsters. I think I've mentioned a few in my thri-kreen write-up...
And yes, I was looking at basing the Osse elves and halflings somewhat on the Athasian varieties, and I really like what Darkmeer's done with them so far. I've also heavily based the Osse thri-kreen on the Athasian versions thereof, including the various subraces (and changing a few things about them in the process, of course).
I can definitely start from here and get something written up for the northern humans. It may be a week or two but I'm still around and involved...
I did like the idea of a bone-culture. I just needed Mark to tell me how it came to be. Maybe the bonepile site is... how to put this lightly... Inferno's toilet? I think the source of the bones should be somehow related to Inferno - who else would be killing all those enormous creatures?
-Rob |
Visit Sorol today: http://sorol.wikispaces.com |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 19:22:42
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Well, I was thinking of it as sort of like an 'Elephant graveyard' - I have to admit I borrowed it from Warcraft, where kodos (great, Rhino-like prehistoric beasts) go to die (and I'm sure they got it from the concept of an 'Elephant graveyard'). In fact, its actually been done before in FR - there is a caldera near the Stonelands (just to the west) that houses a 'Dragon Graveyard'. (EDIT: There is also another in Laerakond, come to think of it)
Anyhow, I actually like the idea of it being Inferno's Toilet - give it a mysterious sounding name - like Shakatari-Mouk'Ta! - which literally translates to 'devils toilet' (substitute a more primitive term for toilet ) in the native tongue.
The reason why I would run with that is that it alleviates the necessity to come up with a secondary process for treating the bone - its already been 'magically treated' within Inferno's bowels. Nearly all dragons feed sporadically, and then sleep for a long time, digesting every bit of their meals, including the bones. Such is the nature of their incredibly efficient digestive system - they can literally feed on anything. Also, how often do we see adventurers coming across a steaming pile of dragon-poop? They literally don't need to crap if given enough time to fully digest stuff.
Now, WHAT IF the dragons digestive fluids were magical in nature? After all, they can even break down stone and metal when they need to. Normally, no-one ever gets to see what happens to the stuff a dragon eats after it has eaten it, but in the case of Inferno it gorges itself because of all the easy feeding - requiring it to 'purge' the less scrumptious bits, like bone, so it can feed some more. In fact... it could actually be stuff the dragon vomited out (Do dragons even have an anus? Do I even want to know?)
So the magical bile of the dragon coats everything the dragon purges, and when left to dry, Wallah! Magically treated and enhanced bone. This means the shamans ritual over the stuff is probably a scam, and the old dude just does it to stay in power (or several 'old dudes', because there are probably a least a few tribes). Perhaps all the Shaman does is rinse the stuff off in the 'Sacred pool' (which may or may not have any qualities what-so-ever - DMs option). On the other hand, maybe the waters of the pool do have some unique property that triggers a magical chemical reaction. But if you have more then one tribe, then the pool must be central (and probably in or near to the graveyard/Toilet), and it must be shared and sacred to all of them - which is good fodder for an adventure, if one Shaman decides he wants sole custody, or if outsiders threaten the pool.
Cavemen coming to the adventurers for aid against another tribe with a shaman gone bad sounds like a very different and fun scenario.
Also, now that I'm thinking about those Warcraft kodos, you were able to fashion some pretty decent armor from their hides. I think armor would take from the flavor of these primitives those. Okay, now I'm thinking maybe the bone of the Troga(?) have special qualities themselves, and they just so happen to be one of the very rare substances that dragons CAN'T digest - maybe that works better then the dragon over-feeding like some fat, lazy Roman.
LOTS of ways to go with this.
As for the Elves - Athasian Elves were known for their long legs - they spent most of their lives running across the wastes. this works beautifully here - if the Elves live in Inferno's hunting territory, there is a damn good reason they run so friggin' fast. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Jun 2010 19:27:51 |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 19:48:06
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| Inferno has bulimia? |
z455t |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 20:47:21
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| When you get that old you really need to watch your 'girlish figure' |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2010 : 22:19:57
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Owenay
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 01:36:32
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Firstly, I'd like to lay praise upon the magnificent cartography of the good Handsome Rob. Simply stunning. In particular the mapping of Pelvuria, Zakhara, Maztica, Tempat Lararng & Petan, and any other areas that never received any official 3E treatment or that of the splendid Markus Tay.
This thread now has me visiting the halls of Candlekeep on a daily basis -- something I haven't done in quite some time. Keep it up guys and I may even be inclined emerge from the shadows of Lurkerville and contribute myself!
Now that I've heaped some well deserved praise...
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
I like the southern seafaring raiders idea... but I might not use the minotaurs for them.
How about the hadozee and/or darfellan from Stormwrack? The hadozee are perfect for a sea-faring race and the Darfellan (though perhaps not the raiding type) would provide an intriguing conflict with their hated nemesis the Sahuagin?
quote:
I have something in mind for the minotaurs in southern Anchorome... and for the time being, we're sticking with canon continent outlines for Anchorome and Katashaka, largely because Rob has done such a great job with morphing Nyambe into Katashaka's coastlines and also because we had set out to keep this as close to published pre-Spellplague canon as possible.
If it is desired, I could be easily persuaded to post a brief rundown of the Nyambe inhabitants, nations and locations (without resorting to plagiarism)for those without access to that third party tome. Just say the word.
quote:
That being said, MT, I think I'm altogether ecstatic with the idea of using what you're putting together as the post-Spellplague "Greyrealms" ("Hawkrealms"? Toerthil?), given the backstory I had already cooked up for a similar twist on the Spellplague.
And I thought I was the only one. I'm tentatively calling my homebrew Mystarun. Betcha can't wager a guess as to what to planets I'm merging together... |
4th Edition is D&D for the Yu-Gi-Oh crowd |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 03:30:07
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Owenay - just keep an eye on my 'better FR' thread - Mystara, coming to a Realms near you.
Hadn't realized Rod had gone outside of Faerūn until just yesterday - I had stopped keeping track of his project some time ago during my 'sabbatical' from the Realms and CandleKeep (I needed it to maintain my mental health... guess it didn't work).
Saves me a lot of time - now I can think about what goes into all these lands. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Jun 2010 09:57:44 |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 05:55:53
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Yay! Here are most of my notes, by species (mostly). You will notice that I've left tech levels mostly vague, except in the case of the Sendasti's hunting/defending weapon (in the next post). Also, I used actual Australian place names and (in the case of the Sendasti) Tribe names, if this offends, please suggest something else as I'm terrible at naming things.
Now, onto the Sktak:
The sktak of the continent of Osse are a semi-nomadic, scaled race, perhaps descended from the one of the first ones themselves. They do not consider themselves above other races, in fact they are truly benefactors of a sort for the Sendasti tribes and the elven nomads to the east. The Sktak wander throughout the northern part of the Opeleis Desert, with thier eastern border being the River Burdekeen which feeds from Big Hole Lake, through the two lesser lakes (the northern lake is unnamed, while the southern lake is Lake Ngmabati). Their western border is the River Nogoa, which stretches from North to South across the desert. Their southern border is about 150 miles south of the Wenwolok Canyons, with a "fuzzy border" with the Sendasti who live there.
The sktak are a proud people, valuing hard work, good craftsmanship, and good food (when such fare is available). They hold but one permanent settlement, the Wenwolok Canyons, which is both their capital and their holiest of holy sites. Since the eastern river's waters, as well as Lake Ngambati's waters, are fouled with sulfurous content, the fact that the Wenwolok Canyons filter this sulphur out naturally makes this a very important resource. Sktak law prohibits anyone from having water, especially in this horrible desert, but it does not preclude them from using it as a trade good with the Sendasti and Elven nomads around them. Perhaps the most striking feature of the race is their desire to live a Spartan lifestyle. This is not to say that they do not appreciate artwork or fine clothing, but many things are needed before such works can be made, and in the desert, extra weight is not appreciated.
Sktak religion is generally elemental in nature, with worship of Water, Fire, Earth, and Air (in that order) being paramount. Perhaps a bit more unsophisticated than their Faerunian counterparts, they have a high proportion of Druids and Spirit Shamans rather than true clerics about. Most of these priestly sktak
are found within the Wenwolok Canyons, communing with the earth and water spirits within, insuring that they remain happy and willing to purify the water for the desert folk. Within the Wenwolok Canyons you will find the greatest sculptures, paintings, and other fine artwork of the sktak people. This is the only non-spartan place you will find of the sktak, where the artists, metalsmiths, sculptors, tailors, and others prepare their work to be tested by the elementals themselves. It is also where caravans bearing skins and skins of water for distribution among the sktak and others wishing to quench their thirst across the desert originate from. Sktak use a type of pack-lizard with a hardened shell (think Ankylosaurus mixed with Galapagos Turtle, yet unnamed), which is usually fitted with a net-like apparatus and held with spines strapped to the shell. The creatures' natural defense is to hide in their shells, where they are virtually invulnerable, and they make wonderful pack animals. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 05:56:35
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The Sendasti notes:
South of the Sktak, also between the Rivers Burdekeen and River Nogoa, is the Karjarren nation, as the sendasti tribes call themselves. They wander, much like all of the races, throughout the Opaleis desert, although they stick to the southern portions of the deserts, and their greatest concentrations are along the river Nogoa (for water and fish) to the southern ocean (yet unnamed?). The furthest north that most Sendasti ever go is Lake Ngambati, and this is the region that most Sendasti get their names as raiders from.
The Karjarren 'nations' are fiercly independent, yet dependent with each other, culture. They value those that are able to defend themselves as well as fend for themselves very highly, many of which are leaders in the society's various tribes. The southern part of the Opaleis desert forces upon the Sendasti a type of wandering due to the way that the Oases appear and disappear. Generally, sendasti only stay within an oasis for a fortnight at most, as the southern desert's oasis magically teleport around, bringing their occupants, but not returning them when the oasis returns to the desert, always in a new location (the Sendasti have used trail markers on trees to determine if the oasis is the same or if it's different, the markers remain, but the living creatures (other than plants) always disappear). This produces some superstition about who is getting these lost sendasti, but, so far, no sendasti has ever returned from a disappearing oasis.
The Sendasti separate themselves into nations, and within that, tribes. Minor differences occur between the tribes, but for the most part they are siilar enough for the purposes of this outline. Each nation generally migrates within a particular section of the overall country. To the south and west, along the River Nogoa and the plateu shoreline to the south, the Alverk'an tribes are fishermen and herders of small, desert-worthy Rothe and other game. They have found a curious fish in the southern ocean whos flesh, when boiled and distilled, makes a poison that incapacitates a target for a time, allowing them to defend against other predators using reed blowguns they fashion from the River Nogoa.
Working into the next section of desert, essentially from the northern reaches of the Sendasti territory's contact with the River Nogoa and along the northern border of the Alverk'an, are the Badfaragai. The Badfaragai are herders, mostly goat and camel herders (they trade camels for the pack lizards of the sktak and water, sktak consider camel meat to be highly delectible, thus are quite willing to trade). The also trade with the Alverk'an for meats and milks in exchange for the ropes and pottery to hold other trade goods they find in the desert.
The Central region of the desert is home to the survivalist Dagbon and Irukanj, who are constantly competing for water and other scarce supplies in the harshes part of the desert, where the fewest oases appear. The two have also used various sorceries to defend their eastern borders with the Tokhan.
The Tokhan, of all the Sendasti, are the ones who find the most use from the sulphurous waters of the River Burdekeen. The Tokhan are considered to be blighters and thaumaturgists who summon only the foulest demons there are. They are distrusted by all Sendasti, but have had their day defending the Alverk'an from a strange crab-like monster that comes from the sea every ten years or so, and due to their usefulness and survival skills with such creatures, they are tolerated by the other sendasti.
The northern border where the Karjarran's territory meets the Sktak territory is home to the most 'civilized' Sendasti, the Yuru. They are the traders of the Sendasti race, and are very shrewd in their dealings with the Sktak. They trade any and everything from the other tribes, and distribute the wealth back to them the best that they can, although the Dagbon and Irukanj generally consider the Yuru to be lazy, the Yuru perform one of the most important tasks the Sendasti can, obtaining water for the central and eastern desert.
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"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 05:58:14
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West of the River Nogoa is a horribly pockmarked land, where inferno's non-hunting hobby comes into play. Inferno had brought several tribes of Ghostwise halflings onto the plateau years ago, in order for them to tend food for him. Unfortunately, these Ghostwise halflings were rather independently minded, and tried to slay the dragon, to which he slew most of the tribes, and drove them off of his hunting grounds. Once they left, he left them alone for a time, as they had wandered into the worst part of the Opaleis desert, excluding the River Nogoa. The halflings, without any food, and few weapons among them, began to fight one another for what little they did find, instead of sharing. These halflings split into various families, and from there, small tribes of haves and have-nots. The halflings, given that they have virtually no resources, tools, or ways to make them in the harsh desert, have taken to slaying and eating one another, as well as virtually any other "big folk" that come into their territories. There are a few tribes still eking out an existance in this blasted land, but they are hidden (mostly along the River Nogoa, and right along the plateau shoreline to the south, perhaps numbering only a few hundred total). The rest of the desert is a constant battle of angry, repressed Ghostwise Halflings, hell-bent on becoming the survivors in the blasted land, and having forgotten what it was to truly be part of a grand tribe working together.
The Elves to the East have yet to be detailed, but my idea with them is that they will be horse nomads, with spiralled palaces made of stone-hard glass (similar to what the Avariel have done in their home along the spine of the world). These nomads use the desert itself as a weapon.
All: I'm rereading Sandstorm, and I'll be including a few other things in the region, but the species notes I wanted to get out there for everyone to see. If anyone objects or wants to rename something, please do. I'll adjust my notes.
@ Markustay: Long-legged athastasian elves might work even with horse nomads... I'll think more about that but thank you very much for that idea |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 10:38:21
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There is room for several types of Elves - the desert ones can be Athasian, and you could have Elfquest-like Elves in the forests nearby (sort of a cross between halflings and elves), and even a shapeshifter type in a savannah region, like the Lythari (read Frostfell), except they turn into something Antelope-like.
This continent is BIGGER then most RPG settings - you can fit a helluva lot here.
We are sticking with the canon FR maps for this, right? It might have been fun to put Aerenal (death-worshipping, scorpion-loving Eberron Elves!) off the coast.
Australia (and yes, I know this isn't Aussie, its Osse) is known for a rather large number of rodents that take up many niches that larger animals of other species do on other continents (hence the giant hopping rat known as a Kangaroo). If we want to keep at least some of the Aussie flavor (as we were in the original Osse project), I think Jermlaine would be a nice fit here. perhaps Goblin-rats (from k-T) instead of regular goblins as well. Or we could just lift the Skaven (ratlings) wholesale from Warhammer.
Ratlings
Skaven Shaman |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Jun 2010 10:45:30 |
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Project Isle...
