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Jelennet
Learned Scribe
Russia
131 Posts |
 Posted - 15 May 2010 : 17:23:31
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Are there any characters in the Realms, who are mages, clerics and sorcerers at the same time?
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Fizilbert
Learned Scribe
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 17:33:15
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Well I dont know much about 4E or even 3E, but in 2E you could have a Mage/Cleric character. What characters in the realms were a mage/cleric though, I couldn't name any off the top of my head.
From what I understand of the new rules, to be a sorcerer means you have innate ability and to be a mage means you have to study and train to gain magic. If you have the innate ability (ie could be a sorcerer), why would you waste time being a mage? So while I dont know if there is a specific rule saying you can or cannot be both a socerer and mage at the same time, I would wonder why would anyone be both?
And as stated before, I have no knowledge of the 4E realms so I dont know if any characters are classed like that. |
Fiz
Level 10 Vice-president
World of Elethril |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 17:40:04
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| NPC stats in 4e follow the same model as monster stat blocks, so they don't have character classes as such, although most of them have abilities pretty close to one class or other. Statted or otherwise, I don't think there's anyone with all three classes, but there are plenty of characters who have both arcane and divine magic at their disposal, or at least blur the lines between the two. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 23:30:19
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Fizilbert: Are you forgetting the Simbul? She's both wizard and a sorcererer.
I don't recall anyone being all three. There are plenty of Wizard/Clerics, Cleric/Sorcerers, and Wizard/Sorcerers. But none that I know of that is all three. Maybe Storm... she's ranger, bard, and wizard, which is technically the divine, sponotanious, and prepared that a cleric, sorcerer and wizard would do. |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 02:24:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Fizilbert
Well I dont know much about 4E or even 3E, but in 2E you could have a Mage/Cleric character. What characters in the realms were a mage/cleric though, I couldn't name any off the top of my head.
From what I understand of the new rules, to be a sorcerer means you have innate ability and to be a mage means you have to study and train to gain magic. If you have the innate ability (ie could be a sorcerer), why would you waste time being a mage? So while I dont know if there is a specific rule saying you can or cannot be both a socerer and mage at the same time, I would wonder why would anyone be both?
And as stated before, I have no knowledge of the 4E realms so I dont know if any characters are classed like that.
There is a PRC in 3 or 3.5 that details a character who is a wizard & sorcerer, combines caster levels. Ultimate Magus, I think is the PRCs name---strong class.
As for official FR characters, none come to mind & I have all the 3/3.5 FR books. The churches of Mystera & Azuth would be full of cleric/mages as would the Thay churches of Kosuth & maybe Bane. |
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Fizilbert
Learned Scribe
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 13:07:25
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| Well seeing as I dont play anything other then 2E, I was guessing using the small amount of information I recalled from reading through the 3E book. And I had no idea that the Simbul has been classified as a Wizard/Sorcerer. Thanks for pointing me straight. |
Fiz
Level 10 Vice-president
World of Elethril |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 22:37:57
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| Also Laeral, Khelben's wife, is a Ranger/Sorcerer/Wizard. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2010 : 18:42:19
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| The point of wizard/sorcerer is not really clear to me. Why that mix is needed? Isn't it better just concentrate on one job? It is not like you will gain any benefits from that. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2010 : 21:21:07
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I think the diversity offered by a good sorc/wiz build could be good, even in 3e where they both pull from (more or less) the same spell list. In 4e Sorcerers and wizards are significantly different, but I don't know how complimentary they are... I shall investigate and report back!
*toddles off to the Spell-plague quarantine zone for a bit*
Hmmm... Actually, having fiddled with the Character builder a bit, a sorcerer/wizard in 4e isn't completely silly; a Gnome Summoner Wizard/Chaos Sorcerer looks like it might be rather amusing, in fact... |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
Edited by - Cleric Generic on 22 May 2010 21:42:56 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2010 : 22:25:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
The point of wizard/sorcerer is not really clear to me. Why that mix is needed? Isn't it better just concentrate on one job? It is not like you will gain any benefits from that.
It would give you both sides of the arcane spellslinging coin: the strategic capabilities of a wizard and the tactical flexibility of a sorcerer.
In the case of NPCs, it could also be something that simply fits the backstory. |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2010 : 10:58:00
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| The Sorc/Wiz combo is SICK if you go with the Ultimate Magus PrC and can reach Epic levels. The Simbul is pretty tough with her FRCS stats, but if you make her a Wiz7/Sor13/UlM 10, she's re-freaking-diculous. When the Ultimate Magus PrC came out, I immediately thought 'Simbul'. I would likely never allow a PC to take that PrC, but she wears it well. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2010 : 00:58:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
The Sorc/Wiz combo is SICK if you go with the Ultimate Magus PrC and can reach Epic levels. The Simbul is pretty tough with her FRCS stats, but if you make her a Wiz7/Sor13/UlM 10, she's re-freaking-diculous. When the Ultimate Magus PrC came out, I immediately thought 'Simbul'. I would likely never allow a PC to take that PrC, but she wears it well.
What aboutThe Srinshee then. She could with ease take the Simbul out!
But then again! So could my mage! |
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 09:22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by dracons
Fizilbert: Are you forgetting the Simbul? She's both wizard and a sorcererer.
I don't recall anyone being all three. There are plenty of Wizard/Clerics, Cleric/Sorcerers, and Wizard/Sorcerers. But none that I know of that is all three. Maybe Storm... she's ranger, bard, and wizard, which is technically the divine, sponotanious, and prepared that a cleric, sorcerer and wizard would do.
Storm is actually a rogue, fighter, sorcerer, bard, and Harper scout.
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
The point of wizard/sorcerer is not really clear to me. Why that mix is needed? Isn't it better just concentrate on one job? It is not like you will gain any benefits from that.
You do gain benefits from multiclassing, and sometimes these are worthwhile. The benefits Elminster receives from his levels in fighter, rogue, and cleric can be argued to be better than the two bonus epic feats he would have gained by taking those six levels in wizard instead.
Beyond that, most the FR characters were given their initial class/level builds using only an early version of the epic level rules, found in a sidebar in the 3E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Under that system there was not much to gain from taking the an 'Epic' level benefit (+1 ability score OR +1 spell level & slot OR +1 attacks) when compared to taking an 'effective level' in another class (which gives you the skill points, increased maximum skill rank, class features, spells, etc).
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 09:40:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
The Sorc/Wiz combo is SICK if you go with the Ultimate Magus PrC and can reach Epic levels. The Simbul is pretty tough with her FRCS stats, but if you make her a Wiz7/Sor13/UlM 10, she's re-freaking-diculous. When the Ultimate Magus PrC came out, I immediately thought 'Simbul'. I would likely never allow a PC to take that PrC, but she wears it well.
I leaned more towards Sorcerer 12/Ultimate Magus 10/Wizard 5/Archmage 5 with three of the archmage levels into sorcerer and two into wizard. Between the various spellpower bonuses she came out to:
caster level 32 sorcerer (spells per day as 22nd)
caster level 27 wizard (spells per day as 17th)
I also felt it made more sense for her to have as many levels in archmage as Elminster, Halaster, or Telamont since in previous editions of the game she had always been magically superior to them.
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
The Sorc/Wiz combo is SICK if you go with the Ultimate Magus PrC and can reach Epic levels. The Simbul is pretty tough with her FRCS stats, but if you make her a Wiz7/Sor13/UlM 10, she's re-freaking-diculous. When the Ultimate Magus PrC came out, I immediately thought 'Simbul'. I would likely never allow a PC to take that PrC, but she wears it well.
What aboutThe Srinshee then. She could with ease take the Simbul out!
But then again! So could my mage!
The Srinshee does not have official published statistics in 3E. The letter between Ed Greenwood and Eric L Boyd in the Annotated Elminster was a correspondence between two authors speculating on what her level of power might be in 3E terms (there is no such thing as an "9th level archmage" afterall..). The last time we saw game stats for the Srinshee in a gaming source presented her as a 30th level mage with Elven High Mage status in 2E. Moreover, last time I checked she did no go running around "taking out" Chosen of Mystra at the behest of internet discussions.
As for your mage? ANY player character can be expected to be able to defeat an NPC of a given level range. Unlike PCs, an NPC has a fraction of the equipment value of a PC, and simultaneously has the burden of taking non-optimized feats, skills, spells, and equipment that matches their backstory rather than a metagaming blue-print.
Moreover, unlike player characters, NPCs do not have the luxury of being able to read the full game stats of an intended adversary/match-up and the ability to customize their own statistics accordingly. Hypothetically if you posted the full statistics of your mage character for the world to see then I hardly imagine it would be hard for any other given player to claim that their PC could likewise take them out "with ease", provided that they could create their own character to equitable standards. |
Edited by - The Simbul on 06 Jun 2010 09:44:10 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 12:21:44
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| Yep. Quoting many people, we should better think not who is stronger but what will happen and how it will be played out. I wonder about Alternate Realm where Elminster went mad and started slaying all other Chosen. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2010 : 00:01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Yep. Quoting many people, we should better think not who is stronger but what will happen and how it will be played out. I wonder about Alternate Realm where Elminster went mad and started slaying all other Chosen.
Along with other Chosen.
There can only be one chosen... |
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Mage/cleric/sorcerer?
