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Jelennet
Learned Scribe
Russia
131 Posts |
 Posted - 14 May 2010 : 09:46:26
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I read somethere that in DnD cleric doesn't always need a deity, he must stick to his life philosophy and it will allow him to cast cleric spells. Does it work in the Forgotten Realms setting? Do all Realms clerics require a deity?
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 09:53:55
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Well............
There are clerics of Ao. Of course he could care less about the callings, so it is as the same dead cause as worshiping the Lady of Pain, who even traps such people in the dimensional maze. Mainly the priest must pray to the god to memorize the spells, but geez, I don't know. Additional info please? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 10:08:03
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Heeeeeeeeeeeey...
What about Kara-Tur? They worship the emperor, right? And his servants. Does that counts? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 11:14:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Well............
There are clerics of Ao. Of course he could care less about the callings, so it is as the same dead cause as worshiping the Lady of Pain, who even traps such people in the dimensional maze. Mainly the priest must pray to the god to memorize the spells, but geez, I don't know. Additional info please?
As far as i know, a cleric who worships Ao would not gain spells or other beneficial supernatural power as other clerics might, seeing as Ao is the overgod and grants his powers to the actual gods of the Realms, instead of the mortals. |
Edited by - Elfinblade on 14 May 2010 12:40:03 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 12:51:16
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| Whereas in generic DnD Clerics don't generally need deities but can worship principles or philosophies, in the FR every cleric need to worship a deity, not only a philosophy, as is stated in the FRCS pp. 22-23. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 13:18:49
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| They don't require a deity if you have one of the ''potted plant'' feats. Tough behind every philosophy, even godless, is a god. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 13:28:29
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| In some cases you could assume that a cleric believes in a certain principle and that unbeknownst to him, said principle he worships is part of the dominion of a certain god and the deity in question grants the cleric his spells. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 13:41:00
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Actually Kara-tur has as many different faiths as the rest of Faerûn.
Remember, ANYONE in the Realms-section of the Realms (i.e. not Kara-tur, Al-Qadim, Maztica, etc.) that doesn't have a patron deity when they die end up as part of the wall of the Faithless. I'm not sure if the wall extends out to the non-traditional regions. That may be a good question for Ed. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 18:18:08
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| That means that bhuddists are doomed? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 21:00:41
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Pretty much Sill. Thankfully this is a game word, and I doubt Buddhist monks exist in Forgotton Realms in the sense as we know it.
But yeah, all people need to worship a god to get divine spells. If they do not, anyone, even joe smoe the shoemaker, ends up in the wall of the faithless. Even those who give only lip service end up there. Thankfully it's very hard to not belive that God's exist in the realms. They are real creatures, they even walk the realms sometimes.
In Greyhawk, (the books that 3.0/3.5 use as generic setting) do not need gods. They need only principals.
The rule of the faith for worship, enen applies to Rangers, Druids, who typical worship nature gods. They don't get it from Nature itself. |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 22:09:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
I think there are a few clerics that follow philosophies or some such concept, as well as worshippers of dead gods, but such people tend to be rare.
There is a feat in one of the realms books that allows you to worship a dead god, & be granted spells & abilities.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31796 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 01:00:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Well............
There are clerics of Ao. Of course he could care less about the callings, so it is as the same dead cause as worshiping the Lady of Pain, who even traps such people in the dimensional maze. Mainly the priest must pray to the god to memorize the spells, but geez, I don't know. Additional info please?
None of them were granted spells by Ao. The "false priests" of Ao [featured in the War of Tethyr novel], were actually Cyricists operating in disguise.
The actual Cults of Ao that arose just after the Time of Troubles, were wizards and priests and, again, none of them were granted spells by Ao. The most detailed source on the Cult of Ao is Steven Schend's article in POLYHEDRON #94. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 05:20:51
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quote:
Originally posted by woodwwad
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
I think there are a few clerics that follow philosophies or some such concept, as well as worshippers of dead gods, but such people tend to be rare.
There is a feat in one of the realms books that allows you to worship a dead god, & be granted spells & abilities.
Does that mean that cleric of Tyr can worship him after his death or it is only for evil gods like Ctulhu? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36821 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 05:43:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
quote:
Originally posted by woodwwad
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
I think there are a few clerics that follow philosophies or some such concept, as well as worshippers of dead gods, but such people tend to be rare.
There is a feat in one of the realms books that allows you to worship a dead god, & be granted spells & abilities.
Does that mean that cleric of Tyr can worship him after his death or it is only for evil gods like Ctulhu?
It'll work for any non-active deity, as I recall. |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 06:13:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
quote:
Originally posted by woodwwad
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
I think there are a few clerics that follow philosophies or some such concept, as well as worshippers of dead gods, but such people tend to be rare.
There is a feat in one of the realms books that allows you to worship a dead god, & be granted spells & abilities.
Does that mean that cleric of Tyr can worship him after his death or it is only for evil gods like Ctulhu?
Okay, I took a few minutes to look it up for you. It is in the FR book: Lost Empires of Faerun on page 9. The feat is called Servant of the Fallen. To answer your question, it would not work for Cthulhu, unless the DM classifies Cthulhu as a dead or forgotten god. However, you could use it for Tyr, if Tyr is dead in the game (obviously not if he is alive), so that all depends on the DR. Of course this is a 3/3.5 rule & what you mention is part of the 4th time line, that being the death of Tyr.
Here is the description of the feat:
Prereq: Cleric level 1st, dead or forgotten god (for example Amaunator, Bhaal, Moander or Myrkul) as patron deity.
Benefit: You can name a dead god as your patron deity & still receive your cleric spells normally. In addition, you can call upon the universal remnant of your deity's power once per day to gain a +1 luck bonus on any single die roll. You can also be raised or resurrected normally.
Normal: Dead or fallen deities cannot grant cleric spells, so clerics who choose such patrons do not normally recieve spells. Characters who do not worship active gods in Faerun suffer the fate of the faithless in the Fugue Plane after death.
Special: You can take this feat only once. Choosing this feat changes your patron from your previous deity to the dead or forgotten deity of your choice, & you take no penalties for making this change. If you later choose a different patron deity, you lose the benefit of this feat, but your new patron may grant you spells just as he or she would for any other cleric.
Hope that helps  |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 06:16:06
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| So, if I will worship Helm after his death I will be in the Wall of Faithless? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 06:21:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
So, if I will worship Helm after his death I will be in the Wall of Faithless?
You most likely will, when you die. There are certain events or themes that would change that but the general rule is, yes.
The faithless or false are basically anyone who doesn't have a servitor of their god show up & claim them once they've died.
There are of course certain souls that will be claimed by Devils, Demons, Night Hags, ect. |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 09:03:12
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| I think that the souls belonging to the dead gods stay in the city and work for Kelemvor, they aren't faithless. |
z455t |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 17:41:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
So, if I will worship Helm after his death I will be in the Wall of Faithless?
I thought the Wall of the Faithless doesn't even exist anymore after Kelemvor took over from Cyric. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 18:32:58
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| No, the wall continued to exist after Kelemvor took over. No change there. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 12:55:42
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| Just trying to remember here; was the Wall ever mentioned before the Prince of Lies? I never liked it much and never used it. |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 15:56:03
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| So, my Chondathan warrior venerates Tempus. After an insane adventure, he ends up on an alternate prime world, where he comes to venerate an elder elemental deity, similar to Kossuth, but "airy". This Chondathan warrior then returns to Faerun, travels overland and then by sea to fair Zakhara. Unfortunately, he falls over board his ship while wearing heavy armor, and drowns to death. How is he greeted in the after-life? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36821 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 20:48:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
So, my Chondathan warrior venerates Tempus. After an insane adventure, he ends up on an alternate prime world, where he comes to venerate an elder elemental deity, similar to Kossuth, but "airy". This Chondathan warrior then returns to Faerun, travels overland and then by sea to fair Zakhara. Unfortunately, he falls over board his ship while wearing heavy armor, and drowns to death. How is he greeted in the after-life?
With much derision, for having worn heavy armor while at sea.
Seriously, I'd rule that Kossuth would take him in. I'm assuming he didn't forswear Kossuth, and it's not like he was able to worship Kossuth in an alternate prime... Plus, the similarity thing would could for a lot, I think. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 16:31:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
No, the wall continued to exist after Kelemvor took over. No change there.
I thought the wall was gone because Kelemvor changed up his realm after he took over. The Wall of the Faithless was basically the dead that Cyric and Myurkul (sp?) literally piled together to become part of the wall as their amusement to torture the dead. Kelemvor didn't want to do that and in the end, turned his realm into a drap and neutral place with gray towers everywhere. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 17:37:49
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| Kelemvors Realm is grey and nondescript, a place where the souls are waiting for their gods to take them in. But the City of Judgement with its Wall of the Dead were never abandoned. It is now a bland place (not like it was at the time of Myrkul or Cyric), and Kelemvor is (and has ever been since he became God of the Dead) the final judge over the fate of the False and the Faithless. It's in the FRCS, p. 258. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Do all Realms clerics require a deity?
