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Jelennet
Learned Scribe
Russia
131 Posts |
 Posted - 03 May 2010 : 08:56:01
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I'm very interested in wizards. I read that anybody who wants to become a wizard needs a teacher. How much does it cost - to learn arcane magic under tutelage in different areas of Toril? Is it expensive? Or cheap? Can an average peasant or an aveage noble afford it?
And how long do wizards study? For examle - how much time does it take to learn spells for level 1? Level 10? Levl 20?
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 09:15:25
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| The truth is it is mostly expensive, so only nobles can afford it. But not everyone of them is talented. Some can gain entrance on special occasion (gifted, genius). But there are exception, like wizards who seek the young talents. They are the best in my opinion, but they are rare. There are also very evil wizards, who look on the pupils like tools to make menial labors, or even resources for the artifacts. Meaning, it is dangerous business. And how many you can learn depends on you. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 09:41:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
The truth is it is mostly expensive, so only nobles can afford it. But not everyone of them is talented. Some can gain entrance on special occasion (gifted, genius). But there are exception, like wizards who seek the young talents. They are the best in my opinion, but they are rare. There are also very evil wizards, who look on the pupils like tools to make menial labors, or even resources for the artifacts. Meaning, it is dangerous business. And how many you can learn depends on you.
I don't think it should be that expensive, unless you want to be pampered. And a young noble would probably not be an independent wizards dream pupil. Nobles can of course sometimes afford to pay for private tutoring and the luxury of having a resident house wizard. Most novices and apprentices would be worked hard by their masters no matter what his alignment is. That's one of the main reasons for having apprentices, someone that does the basic work and daily chores. There's always sadists, but even a lawful good wizard will probably work his apprentice half to death to check his commitment and character. Its a case of willing service by the student, rewarded by being thought magic. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 09:53:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I don't think it should be that expensive, unless you want to be pampered. And a young noble would probably not be an independent wizards dream pupil. Nobles can of course sometimes afford to pay for private tutoring and the luxury of having a resident house wizard. Most novices and apprentices would be worked hard by their masters no matter what his alignment is. That's one of the main reasons for having apprentices, someone that does the basic work and daily chores. There's always sadists, but even a lawful good wizard will probably work his apprentice half to death to check his commitment and character. Its a case of willing service by the student, rewarded by being thought magic.
What kind of wizard creates the phylactory from the bones of his apprentice? Well, that is also regional question. The Red Wizards take the elite geniuses of youngest ages for survival of one from the hundreds of pupils, who become the new Red Wizards. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 10:00:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I don't think it should be that expensive, unless you want to be pampered. And a young noble would probably not be an independent wizards dream pupil. Nobles can of course sometimes afford to pay for private tutoring and the luxury of having a resident house wizard. Most novices and apprentices would be worked hard by their masters no matter what his alignment is. That's one of the main reasons for having apprentices, someone that does the basic work and daily chores. There's always sadists, but even a lawful good wizard will probably work his apprentice half to death to check his commitment and character. Its a case of willing service by the student, rewarded by being thought magic.
What kind of wizard creates the phylactory from the bones of his apprentice? Well, that is also regional question. The Red Wizards take the elite geniuses of youngest ages for survival of one from the hundreds of pupils, who become the new Red Wizards.
An evil one; and that's not teaching someone magic, that's setting up a trap. As for Thay, yes that's one example of organized teaching, and there are other examples of there having been schools teahcing magic, but its not the general way of doing things in the rest of the Realms. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 10:05:21
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| Of course. Such rigid practice is not popular in the teaching academies of Faerun. Talk about militaristic expenses. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 10:14:24
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I might be in the wrong here, but i vaguely remember reading somewhere that the red wizards recruited their talent strictly from Mulan heritage? I think i read it in Unclean but i might have misinterpreted it.
(EDIT: Sorry for going offtopic  :) |
Edited by - Elfinblade on 03 May 2010 10:15:03 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 10:21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Elfinblade
I might be in the wrong here, but i vaguely remember reading somewhere that the red wizards recruited their talent strictly from Mulan heritage? I think i read it in Unclean but i might have misinterpreted it.
(EDIT: Sorry for going offtopic :)
It is right on topic, Elfinblade. I cannot judge the information though, sorry. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:29:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Elfinblade
I might be in the wrong here, but i vaguely remember reading somewhere that the red wizards recruited their talent strictly from Mulan heritage? I think i read it in Unclean but i might have misinterpreted it.
(EDIT: Sorry for going offtopic :)
From what I remember that is the general ideological stance of the Red Wizards, but its not practised very strictly. If someone of non-Mulan heritage has potential he may still be taken in, but will then usually try to adhere to the Mulan over-class' culture to fit in. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:46:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Jelennet
And how long do wizards study? For examle - how much time does it take to learn spells for level 1? Level 10? Levl 20?
Level dictates your limit of spell level limit. For example, 1st level wizard can only learn 1st level spells. Also it depends on the intelligence of the wizard (int=10+level of spell). About time in the world... if you meet prerequisites, almost the moment you remember them. So they seek scrolls and books. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 13:19:46
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To be honest, the price of apprenticeship is however much the market can bear, and would also depend on the student. In a big city, say, Silverymoon, wizards could find themselves in a "bidding war" for the most promising apprentices. Out in the boonies, your only choice could be the slightly-mad hedge wizard down the road, and you'd pay whatever he/she wanted, or not get training.
And also remember that the price isn't always in gold. Gold is good, of course, but rare spell components are better, and for many master/apprentice relationships, there's also sex.
If you have access to the 2e Al'Qadim book Complete Sha'ir's Handbook, it has an entire section on wizards taking apprentices. I've always found it to be a good starting-off place for my thoughts on the subject. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 13:24:27
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| What about the moment apprentice seeks the tutorship of the well-known wizard? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 15:26:12
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| Um, I'm not really sure what you're asking. Could you restate the question? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 05:20:49
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In some guide I remember information about the lich, who have phylactory made from the bones of his apprentice (all 270+ bones), hidden in giant labyrinth and protected by various spells to make them impossible to find them. He was the one, who wanted to make Laeral his consort. Many wizards come on pilgrimage to him to become his apprentice as lich. GRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I don't remember his name! He is DAMN powerful!
Also, what kind of wannabe wizard does not want to be apprentice of the Elminster? I believe many came to get a refusal from him. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Edited by - Sill Alias on 04 May 2010 05:22:22 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 13:16:55
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Oh, right, I remember that guy. 3e... Lords of Darkness, maybe? He got an update in 3.5, along with the spells he uses to "shatter" his phylactery. This is the same guy who creates living zombies to stop aging. I'm afb, though, so can't check my guess. He's hiding out in the Underdark somewhere.
As for your other question, the prestige of the mentor would also be a factor in the equation of how much a prospective apprentice (either an existing wizard wanting training, or a complete novice wanting to learn from scratch) would pay. A Khelben or an Elminster would charge more (and in stranger coin, like quests completed or favors owed) than the hedge wizard down the road.
Once again, I think the cost of apprenticeship is best summed up in the phrase, "whatever the market will bear." |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 16:55:48
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| And in the case of most archwizards, even meeting them can be a quest in itself. Trying to ask Elminster for a place as his apprentice would be a heroic quest in itself where ones sanity was at stake. These people only take apprentices when they feel like it or if its part of one of their plots. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 04:50:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Oh, right, I remember that guy. 3e... Lords of Darkness, maybe? He got an update in 3.5, along with the spells he uses to "shatter" his phylactery. This is the same guy who creates living zombies to stop aging. I'm afb, though, so can't check my guess. He's hiding out in the Underdark somewhere.
As for your other question, the prestige of the mentor would also be a factor in the equation of how much a prospective apprentice (either an existing wizard wanting training, or a complete novice wanting to learn from scratch) would pay. A Khelben or an Elminster would charge more (and in stranger coin, like quests completed or favors owed) than the hedge wizard down the road.
Once again, I think the cost of apprenticeship is best summed up in the phrase, "whatever the market will bear."
I read 3.5 ed ... he created many spells, and by Deneir, he have 270+ phylactories! You need an army and years just to find one.
I think if they will not take them, then, they will give a direction after confirming their gift. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 04:59:22
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Found him. Aumvor the Undying, from Champions of Ruin. I always get that one mixed up with Lords of Darkness.
Your other comment, however, I don't understand. I'm also a little confused as to how we got onto the subject. The fact that one lich decided to play a cruel joke and turn the bones of a former rival into his phylactery doesn't seem to be very bearing on the discussion. Though it's true plenty of experienced wizards might try to seek him out to learn how it was done. Once again, the price would be whatever Aumvor cared to charge, and would certainly be in things far more precious than mere gold. Alicorns and long lost necromantic spells come to mind... |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 05:03:21
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| Hm? I misread? I thought it was his disciple who was turned in phylactory. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 12:55:28
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| Nope. It's on page 127: "Aumvor's phylactery is the rune-inscribed skeleton of Dethed, a former apprentice of Ioulaum and rival of Aumvor." And there's 206 bones. Quite the quest to track them all down. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
Edited by - Hoondatha on 05 May 2010 12:59:56 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 04:59:48
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Yeah
Anyway the point is that first you need a good advice where and to who you need to go. Also you need ironwill feat to not change your ambition and hardwork to study |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 17:01:39
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"The Silver Marches" has a great sidebar on this topic.
Great for lore and crunch! |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 17:23:00
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| Can you give a page number? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 18:49:34
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| I'm in the car atm, but I'm gonna say, off the top of my head, page 61 or 62, in the Conclave of Silverymoon section. |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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What is the cost of education for wizards?
