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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 03 May 2010 : 10:19:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Elfinblade
I don't even use the Shadovar in my own campaigns 
Must be one of those tired-of-the-Shadovar people.  |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:10:30
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
It is indeed possible. But WotC already has shown a willingness to ignore previous potential plot developments like this one, so I'm really not hopeful. And I for one was tired of the Shades by the end of 3E -- but they and Shar became even more prominent in 4E. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:27:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
It is indeed possible. But WotC already has shown a willingness to ignore previous potential plot developments like this one, so I'm really not hopeful. And I for one was tired of the Shades by the end of 3E -- but they and Shar became even more prominent in 4E.
Kinda like how Wizards has ignored the Manshoon Wars hook at the start of 3E. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:52:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
It is indeed possible. But WotC already has shown a willingness to ignore previous potential plot developments like this one, so I'm really not hopeful. And I for one was tired of the Shades by the end of 3E -- but they and Shar became even more prominent in 4E.
Kinda like how Wizards has ignored the Manshoon Wars hook at the start of 3E.
And the Harper Schism. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:56:29
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| And Halaster, and the return of Bane, and etc etc |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:56:55
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| I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 12:04:41
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Now that I am reading Cloak of Shadows, I am interested in the Shadow Masters. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 00:27:23
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion.
 Yes! Please do! And I'll keep working on my sarrukh plots! 
On a side note: which early maps caused the addition of the sarrukh changing the direction of the Narrow Sea and inundating the phaerimm? I know that in an earlier map, the sea ran north-south, and in a later map, it ran east-west, thanks to a cartographical error, and this was explained by a great magical cataclysm in the sarrukh-phaerimm conflict... but I don't recall *which* maps those were. Obviously, they must both have been published, or the cataclysm wouldn't have been necessary. The only pre-Anauroch maps I'm aware of are the ones in the GHotR (p 32 and pp 44-45, both of which show the east-west Narrow Sea) and the 2E Arcane Age: Netheril boxed set (which I don't have access to atm), but they don't go back early enough.
Now, back to the Shadovar... what do we know about the state of Anauroch in 4E? The 4E FRCG says only that Netheril has been "partially restored" from the desert... and it's unclear from the map which part that is... and I won't comment on the map itself here. Yes, I finally bought the FRCG; there are things about it that I wanted to tinker with, and I found a used copy in excellent shape. So... is Anauroch in the Year of the Ageless One all arid semi-desert, or partially desert, partially verdant, or something in between? I'm looking at restoring Netheril in my Realms as well, but probably not by that name. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 04 May 2010 00:28:13 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 01:06:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion.
Yes! Please do! And I'll keep working on my sarrukh plots!
Which reminds me... I still owe you a PM! 
quote:
Now, back to the Shadovar... what do we know about the state of Anauroch in 4E? The 4E FRCG says only that Netheril has been "partially restored" from the desert... and it's unclear from the map which part that is... and I won't comment on the map itself here. Yes, I finally bought the FRCG; there are things about it that I wanted to tinker with, and I found a used copy in excellent shape. So... is Anauroch in the Year of the Ageless One all arid semi-desert, or partially desert, partially verdant, or something in between? I'm looking at restoring Netheril in my Realms as well, but probably not by that name.
Anauroch has yet to receive much attention in the DDI articles. I recall a few mentions in Brian's "Sharn" article, but they were mostly references to the past desertification of the region. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 01:20:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion.
I would be very interested in this. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 03:25:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion.
Yes! Please do! And I'll keep working on my sarrukh plots!
Which reminds me... I still owe you a PM!
quote:
Now, back to the Shadovar... what do we know about the state of Anauroch in 4E? The 4E FRCG says only that Netheril has been "partially restored" from the desert... and it's unclear from the map which part that is... and I won't comment on the map itself here. Yes, I finally bought the FRCG; there are things about it that I wanted to tinker with, and I found a used copy in excellent shape. So... is Anauroch in the Year of the Ageless One all arid semi-desert, or partially desert, partially verdant, or something in between? I'm looking at restoring Netheril in my Realms as well, but probably not by that name.
Anauroch has yet to receive much attention in the DDI articles. I recall a few mentions in Brian's "Sharn" article, but they were mostly references to the past desertification of the region.
Is the article on Anauroch in wikia wholly true? It says there: "1479 DR: The end of Anauroch is complete and only occasional dustbowls remain as a reminder of the once great desert." So technically there is NO MORE Anauroch? For how could you call "occasional dustbowls" a desert?  |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 03:33:37
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Another thing in the same article in wikia caught my attention:
"The returned masters of Anauroch, the ancient Netherese wizards of Thultanthar, warped and twisted by their long exile in the Demiplane of Shadow, are determined to not be denied what they consider their birth-right, longing to restore the barren wasteland that is now Anauroch to the once fertile land that was the Empire of Magic. The Shadovar have a regimented society, ruled by The Most High and his Princes of Shade, all working in unison, toughened by centuries of hardship in the Shadow, to accomplish their common goal. So far they have all but ignored the Bedine and Zhentarim, considering them beneath their notice."
The last part sounds contradictory to the nature of the Shadovar, who are selfish and megalomaniac. How could they deign to ignore the very presence of their enemies in their own land? Is the said article part of canon, or a conglomeration of writings from a mixture of non-FR and legit FR writers?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 04:16:37
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think I'm going to start tinkering around with some alternate theories on the Manshoon Wars -- with the eventual intention of presenting them here for discussion.
Yes! Please do! And I'll keep working on my sarrukh plots!
Which reminds me... I still owe you a PM!
quote:
Now, back to the Shadovar... what do we know about the state of Anauroch in 4E? The 4E FRCG says only that Netheril has been "partially restored" from the desert... and it's unclear from the map which part that is... and I won't comment on the map itself here. Yes, I finally bought the FRCG; there are things about it that I wanted to tinker with, and I found a used copy in excellent shape. So... is Anauroch in the Year of the Ageless One all arid semi-desert, or partially desert, partially verdant, or something in between? I'm looking at restoring Netheril in my Realms as well, but probably not by that name.
Anauroch has yet to receive much attention in the DDI articles. I recall a few mentions in Brian's "Sharn" article, but they were mostly references to the past desertification of the region.
Is the article on Anauroch in wikia wholly true? It says there: "1479 DR: The end of Anauroch is complete and only occasional dustbowls remain as a reminder of the once great desert." So technically there is NO MORE Anauroch? For how could you call "occasional dustbowls" a desert?
Hmmm. From the "Year of the Ageless One" source on the Wizards website:-
quote:
The reborn Empire of Netheril now lies in the basin that once held the desert Anauroch. The new Netheril claims all of the lands that ancient Netheril once occupied, and seeks to dominate Faerûn just as ancient Netheril did twenty centuries ago. Much of Anauroch’s vast basin is still desolate wasteland, but the lords of Netheril have spent decades weaving mighty spells to summon water to the parched lands and fill the empty skies with rain. Slowly but surely, grassland grows over the dunes, and young forests cover the stony barrens.
[Source:- http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drfe/20080111a] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 04:22:23
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Another thing in the same article in wikia caught my attention:
"The returned masters of Anauroch, the ancient Netherese wizards of Thultanthar, warped and twisted by their long exile in the Demiplane of Shadow, are determined to not be denied what they consider their birth-right, longing to restore the barren wasteland that is now Anauroch to the once fertile land that was the Empire of Magic. The Shadovar have a regimented society, ruled by The Most High and his Princes of Shade, all working in unison, toughened by centuries of hardship in the Shadow, to accomplish their common goal. So far they have all but ignored the Bedine and Zhentarim, considering them beneath their notice."
The last part sounds contradictory to the nature of the Shadovar, who are selfish and megalomaniac. How could they deign to ignore the very presence of their enemies in their own land? Is the said article part of canon, or a conglomeration of writings from a mixture of non-FR and legit FR writers?
Again, from the source I noted above:-
quote:
Decades ago, the Netherese subjugated the nomads of Anauroch and many of the savage humanoid tribes inhabiting the desert.
Sounds to me like the Bedine are largely now under the thumb of the Shadovar. And the FRCG maintains that trend, with reference to Bedine resistance groups and such, working against Netherese interests. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 04:28:46
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| I see. Thanks, Sage. That clarifies things. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 05:26:37
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| And the Shades destroyed Zhentil Keep, which expresses a little bit more than a casual disinterest. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 05:31:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And the Shades destroyed Zhentil Keep, which expresses a little bit more than a casual disinterest.
And I suspect the Zhentarim infiltration of the Bedine resistance tribes is partly geared toward them also forging some kind of "revenge" against the Shadovar. |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 05:57:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And the Shades destroyed Zhentil Keep, which expresses a little bit more than a casual disinterest.
Speaking of, I wonder what happened to Manshoon when the Shadovar attacked? Did he flee or die (and live again, through his seemingly endless supply of clones) like the realms' ultimate "cockroach"? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 07:06:49
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And the Shades destroyed Zhentil Keep, which expresses a little bit more than a casual disinterest.
Speaking of, I wonder what happened to Manshoon when the Shadovar attacked? Did he flee or die (and live again, through his seemingly endless supply of clones) like the realms' ultimate "cockroach"?
Only the Manshoon clone, as Orbakh the Night King, remains in the 4e Realms. The clone with Halaster was destroyed during the Spellplague, and the third remaining clone was killed during the Netherese assault on Zhentil Keep. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2010 : 00:10:59
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Warning, a little SPOILER BELOW:
Richard briefly mentions Netherese in his recent book, The Captive Flame...Some events even occur in Shadowfell, which is, to some extent, a Shadovar realm (it's their goddess's domain, so it must be theirs too by relation)...I wonder if the Shadovar (or their agents) will play a role (however wee) in the next two books?...
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Topic |
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what's next for the shadovar?...
