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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 19:36:25
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i have been a fan of netheril ever since reading the nethril trilogy...and it's good that a "portion" of that empire still survives. it would have been ridiculous to totally wipe out the most powerful empire in faerun. anyway, after the shadovar's major role in the twilight war trilogy, what's next? i read somewhere that the shadovar, after learning that zhentil keep connived with the phaerimm to destroy them, totally eliminated zhentil keep. is there a novel where this happens? also, will the shadovar be playing a major role in paul kemp's cycle of the night trilogy?
i hope someone can enlighten me...greetings to all from the philippines!!!
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 20:12:27
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After the Mystra's death and the Spellplague, Shade and the Shadovar reestablished the Netherese empire throughout Anauroch and extended south to Sembia. I'm not sure of the exact dimensions of the empire. As far as Zhentil Keep, according to the GHotR they did destroy the Zhent stronghold. Unfortunately, due to the current policy, the story behind this probably won't see the light of day since it took place during the Spellplague.
I'd suggest heading over to Mr. Kemp's scroll and asking him yourself if they might be making an appearance. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 19:21:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
After the Mystra's death and the Spellplague, Shade and the Shadovar reestablished the Netherese empire throughout Anauroch and extended south to Sembia. I'm not sure of the exact dimensions of the empire. As far as Zhentil Keep, according to the GHotR they did destroy the Zhent stronghold. Unfortunately, due to the current policy, the story behind this probably won't see the light of day since it took place during the Spellplague.
I'd suggest heading over to Mr. Kemp's scroll and asking him yourself if they might be making an appearance.
Someone said the destruction of ZK by the Shadovar happened BEFORE the SP.
Anyway, does anyone care to throw some guess what's in store for the Shadovar in Godborn (since Paul does not want to give further details other than confirming that Rivalen and Brennus will play a crucial part in the storyline)?
Here are some questions I have after rereading the Twilight War:
1. Brennus, after finding out that it was Rivalen who murdered his mother, told Telamont that if they let Rivalen take a portion of Mask's divinity, they would no longer be able to punish him for his crime, thereby implying that indeed Rivalen has grown more powerful than his father. If so, would the already arrogant archwizard be far more arrogant to the point of usurping Telamont's throne?
2. Mephistopheles, after having released by Telamont and his lackeys, said he never forgets. Meaning, he'll avenge his humiliation someday. Will his revenge begin in Godborn?
3. Upon seeing Ephyras's destruction, Rivalen wept. I am not sure if it was because of joy upon seeing his goddess's triumph in that world. Or is because of extreme pain and despair, having realized that after he helped his father give birth to the new Netheril it will all amount to nothing?
4. Will we see another war between Selgaunt and Shade? This time perhaps it will be Tamlin, who's no doubt feeling ill used, who will "somehow" unite Selgaunt and lead the revolt to gain their freedom?
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2010 : 23:14:04
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I was curious about what would happen if Selunarra was to inject it's self to the Netheril Empire? Think of it... both it and the Shades are Netheril, the same people and bloodline but they worship opposing goddesses.
Would the Shade defect a little from Shar to welcome them back as they understand the need to worship the god who protected them, or purge their kinsmen of the false goddess?
Would Selunarra connect with them or reject them? Would they join with the nations who oppose the Shades or could they at all, with people being fearful of the Netherese? Would they have to swear loyalty first?
Curious... |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 00:06:46
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The Shades beat ZK down in 1383. According to BRJ.
Shade and Selunarra meeting probably would lead to them throwing down. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 01 May 2010 06:01:00 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 05:11:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
I was curious about what would happen if Selunarra was to inject it's self to the Netheril Empire? Think of it... both it and the Shades are Netheril, the same people and bloodline but they worship opposing goddesses.
Would the Shade defect a little from Shar to welcome them back as they understand the need to worship the god who protected them, or purge their kinsmen of the false goddess?
Would Selunarra connect with them or reject them? Would they join with the nations who oppose the Shades or could they at all, with people being fearful of the Netherese? Would they have to swear loyalty first?
Curious...
I know that if it ever came up in a campaign I was running, Selunarra would have appeared around 1380 DR, leading to a cold-war/standoff with Shade and preventing Shade's expanionism.
Also, in my Realms, the Harpers would find themselves affiliated with Selunarra, possibly gaining a new 'home base' to work from. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 05:19:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
I was curious about what would happen if Selunarra was to inject it's self to the Netheril Empire? Think of it... both it and the Shades are Netheril, the same people and bloodline but they worship opposing goddesses.
Would the Shade defect a little from Shar to welcome them back as they understand the need to worship the god who protected them, or purge their kinsmen of the false goddess?
Would Selunarra connect with them or reject them? Would they join with the nations who oppose the Shades or could they at all, with people being fearful of the Netherese? Would they have to swear loyalty first?
Curious...
I know that if it ever came up in a campaign I was running, Selunarra would have appeared around 1380 DR, leading to a cold-war/standoff with Shade and preventing Shade's expanionism.
Also, in my Realms, the Harpers would find themselves affiliated with Selunarra, possibly gaining a new 'home base' to work from.
The first part sounds good to me. I like the second part, but I'm not sure if I'd run with that. Allies, definitely, but I don't know that I'd go so far as to connect the two. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 07:27:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Also, in my Realms, the Harpers would find themselves affiliated with Selunarra, possibly gaining a new 'home base' to work from.
That's interesting.
Especially when added to my own thinking about possibly only having Selûnarra return after a significant period of further exile. Perhaps they're simply waiting for the Shades to over-extend themselves, and then insert Opus back into the Realms at a time when the Shades may not be able to properly defend all of their holdings. Which would also work to the Harpers' advantage. It might simply be an alliance of opportunity.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 07:29:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I like the second part, but I'm not sure if I'd run with that. Allies, definitely, but I don't know that I'd go so far as to connect the two.
Interestingly, I've also explored the possibilities of the Harpers having tentative connections to the Five Companies in my Realms. Those skyships would certainly benefit the scope of the Harpers activities -- should they wish to prosecute a more "continent-wide" initiative against the Shadovar.
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 01 May 2010 07:30:31 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 07:34:45
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Glory to the defenders of balance, those that harp!
Woe to the evil that establishes the empires to fall again! |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 12:57:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Also, in my Realms, the Harpers would find themselves affiliated with Selunarra, possibly gaining a new 'home base' to work from.
That's interesting.
Especially when added to my own thinking about possibly only having Sel�narra return after a significant period of further exile. Perhaps they're simply waiting for the Shades to over-extend themselves, and then insert Opus back into the Realms at a time when the Shades may not be able to properly defend all of their holdings. Which would also work to the Harpers' advantage. It might simply be an alliance of opportunity.
I think Selûnarra, being Netherese, are too proud to even conceive of an alliance with non-Neths. So it might just be an alliance of opportunity.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 13:10:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
I was curious about what would happen if Selunarra was to inject it's self to the Netheril Empire? Think of it... both it and the Shades are Netheril, the same people and bloodline but they worship opposing goddesses.
Would the Shade defect a little from Shar to welcome them back as they understand the need to worship the god who protected them, or purge their kinsmen of the false goddess?
Would Selunarra connect with them or reject them? Would they join with the nations who oppose the Shades or could they at all, with people being fearful of the Netherese? Would they have to swear loyalty first?
Curious...
I think Selunnara would simply take the "defensive" stance, if ever Shade decides to annex them to their empire. Despite being Netherese, Selunnara should understand how powerful Shad had become after having been exiled in the Plane of Shadow. And maybe, even if pushed to their limits, their pride would not allow them to ally with any realm. Remember in Netheril Trilogy, although it became apparent how devastating the Phaerimm's spells to their empire, the Neths, always proud and confident to weather any catastrophe, NEVER sought help from any existing realms that time...
Also, I think Selunnara would never join Shade. It is very unlikely that they would give up their faith in Selune (as what would the Shadavor demand of them, for sure). Selune is their lifeblood as much as Shar is Shade's.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 13:38:57
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Also, in my Realms, the Harpers would find themselves affiliated with Selunarra, possibly gaining a new 'home base' to work from.
That's interesting.
Especially when added to my own thinking about possibly only having Sel�narra return after a significant period of further exile. Perhaps they're simply waiting for the Shades to over-extend themselves, and then insert Opus back into the Realms at a time when the Shades may not be able to properly defend all of their holdings. Which would also work to the Harpers' advantage. It might simply be an alliance of opportunity.
I think Selûnarra, being Netherese, are too proud to even conceive of an alliance with non-Neths. So it might just be an alliance of opportunity.
I don't think they'd be that discriminatory. If anything, the current generation of inhabitants of Opus, the aasimar [descended from the natives of the enclave], might have simply come to adopt a mindset similar to that of other celestial types. And are now, thus, less interested in Torilian matters -- instead focusing on events across the Gates of the Moon. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 14:23:40
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Hi Sage!
Should Selunnara decide to come out from their seclusion for whatever important purpose, do you think Shade will see them as a potential threat? I don't know how much powerful Selunnara had turned out to be, but do they stand a chance against Shade, notwithstanding that Rivalen is now a demigod? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 16:04:03
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Hi Sage!
Should Selunnara decide to come out from their seclusion for whatever important purpose, do you think Shade will see them as a potential threat? I don't know how much powerful Selunnara had turned out to be, but do they stand a chance against Shade, notwithstanding that Rivalen is now a demigod?
Shade would indeed see Selûnnara as a threat. Not only as a military/political threat, but also as a moral one -- because Selûnnara has as much claim to the legacy of Netheril as Shade does. It'd be difficult for one group to claim their actions are justified since they're the true heirs of Netheril, when another group with an equally strong claim acts in direct opposition to them. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 16:10:55
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Hi Sage!
Should Selunnara decide to come out from their seclusion for whatever important purpose, do you think Shade will see them as a potential threat? I don't know how much powerful Selunnara had turned out to be, but do they stand a chance against Shade, notwithstanding that Rivalen is now a demigod?
What Wooly said.
Plus, there is the whole eternal Selûne/Shar rivalry to consider as well. Selûnnara has the *backing* of the Moonmaiden. And the City of Shade is still largely under the aegis of Shar. So the Shadovar still have much to fear from Selûnnara. |
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Edited by - The Sage on 01 May 2010 16:14:39 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 16:57:26
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| Oh, and I forgot to mention: Rivalen isn't really a factor. Deities can't act directly. And even if he did get involved in a conflict betwixt Shade and Selûnnara, Selûne has a lot more deific allies she can call on. |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 17:27:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, and I forgot to mention: Rivalen isn't really a factor. Deities can't act directly. And even if he did get involved in a conflict betwixt Shade and Selûnnara, Selûne has a lot more deific allies she can call on.
Also who says there isn't a demigod in Selunarra after all of this time? Unlikely, but possible. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 18:05:17
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You know whats sad, is that this is a hook WotC will probably never use.
Then again it could be a good thing now that I think about it.    |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 19:16:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
You know whats sad, is that this is a hook WotC will probably never use.
Then again it could be a good thing now that I think about it.
Well, the possibility of Selûnnara's return was put forth in 3E, but it's not come back yet, in 4E -- so I don't think it will. I think that bringing it back would pull too much attention away from the Shades, who seem to be the main evil group of the 4E Realms.
It is a great idea for a hook, and yet another great idea that WotC just tossed aside. Edition changes are bad on great ideas from earlier editions.  |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 23:31:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
The Shades beat ZK down in 1383. According to BRJ.
Shade and Selunarra meeting probably would lead to them throwing down.
Where does this material come from? It's not in GHoTR... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 01:27:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, the possibility of Selûnnara's return was put forth in 3E, but it's not come back yet, in 4E -- so I don't think it will. I think that bringing it back would pull too much attention away from the Shades, who seem to be the main evil group of the 4E Realms.
Well, it's always a possibility. After all, the FRCG was meant only as an introduction to the 4e Realms. With future DDI articles meant to expand and explore upon what wasn't included.
While I suspect Wooly's reading of the situation might have a grain of greater truth to it, I also believe that it's still possible for mention of future developments on or about Selûnnara to pop up at some point.
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 03:58:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
The Shades beat ZK down in 1383. According to BRJ.
Shade and Selunarra meeting probably would lead to them throwing down.
Where does this material come from? It's not in GHoTR...
It's from his 'unofficial' timeline last year. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 02 May 2010 07:59:24 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 07:43:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, the possibility of Selûnnara's return was put forth in 3E, but it's not come back yet, in 4E -- so I don't think it will. I think that bringing it back would pull too much attention away from the Shades, who seem to be the main evil group of the 4E Realms.
Well, it's always a possibility. After all, the FRCG was meant only as an introduction to the 4e Realms. With future DDI articles meant to expand and explore upon what wasn't included.
While I suspect Wooly's reading of the situation might have a grain of greater truth to it, I also believe that it's still possible for mention of future developments on or about Selûnnara to pop up at some point.
That would be nice.
Considering that Aasimar's are now Deva's that might cause some Lore quandries.
Or would they use the usual 'Jedi Mind Trick': It's always been this way. What you read in LEoF isn't real.
You can move along now... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 02 May 2010 07:44:38 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 15:57:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Or would they use the usual 'Jedi Mind Trick': It's always been this way. What you read in LEoF isn't real.
They've been using that particular trick since 3E. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 04:20:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Hi Sage!
Should Selunnara decide to come out from their seclusion for whatever important purpose, do you think Shade will see them as a potential threat? I don't know how much powerful Selunnara had turned out to be, but do they stand a chance against Shade, notwithstanding that Rivalen is now a demigod?
Shade would indeed see Sel�nnara as a threat. Not only as a military/political threat, but also as a moral one -- because Sel�nnara has as much claim to the legacy of Netheril as Shade does. It'd be difficult for one group to claim their actions are justified since they're the true heirs of Netheril, when another group with an equally strong claim acts in direct opposition to them.
It was the Shadovar who literally brought Netheril back from the ashes...It was through their effort and ruthless machination that heralded the rebirth of new Netheril...Had Selunnara been eager to claim the Netheril legacy, they should have acted first, not now that Shadovar seemed to have set almost all things "right" for the empire. But then again, you do have a point. They are both Neths, and have the same right to the empire. Who knows, Selunnara had also planned and arranged for Netheril's rebirth but were just engaged in more pressing matters (at which point Shade returned from the Plane of Shadow)that when they thought the time was right to do it, the Shadovar had already accomplished it.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 05:57:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
You know whats sad, is that this is a hook WotC will probably never use.
Then again it could be a good thing now that I think about it.
Well, the possibility of Sel�nnara's return was put forth in 3E, but it's not come back yet, in 4E -- so I don't think it will. I think that bringing it back would pull too much attention away from the Shades, who seem to be the main evil group of the 4E Realms.
It is a great idea for a hook, and yet another great idea that WotC just tossed aside. Edition changes are bad on great ideas from earlier editions.
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 07:18:26
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
You know whats sad, is that this is a hook WotC will probably never use.
Then again it could be a good thing now that I think about it.
Well, the possibility of Sel�nnara's return was put forth in 3E, but it's not come back yet, in 4E -- so I don't think it will. I think that bringing it back would pull too much attention away from the Shades, who seem to be the main evil group of the 4E Realms.
It is a great idea for a hook, and yet another great idea that WotC just tossed aside. Edition changes are bad on great ideas from earlier editions.
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
I am tired of the Shades myself.
Now when Paul writes about them it's kool.
Maybe Selunnara will get the Novel treatment.
Maybe a 4E RSE with them in it.
Or they could be holding it in reserve for 5E. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 07:27:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
You know whats sad, is that this is a hook WotC will probably never use.
Then again it could be a good thing now that I think about it.
Well, the possibility of Sel�nnara's return was put forth in 3E, but it's not come back yet, in 4E -- so I don't think it will. I think that bringing it back would pull too much attention away from the Shades, who seem to be the main evil group of the 4E Realms.
It is a great idea for a hook, and yet another great idea that WotC just tossed aside. Edition changes are bad on great ideas from earlier editions.
But it's possible. People "might" get tired of seeing the Shadovar being the primal villains. So why not thrown in the scene their kin that would surely give them more trouble than they could ever imagine?!
I am tired of the Shades myself.
Now when Paul writes about them it's kool.
Maybe Selunnara will get the Novel treatment.
Maybe a 4E RSE with them in it.
Or they could be holding it in reserve for 5E.
I agree that Paul really makes them quite interesting.
But I hope WotC is not holding Selunnara in reserve for 5E. God, that's years from now...I hope they'll use them in 4E. And if they do, I would expect the Selunnara to make a GRAND RETURN, grander than the Shadovar's in the Archwizards Trilogy.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 09:53:39
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| And oh please, no more 4E RSE. Have we had enough RSE? Selunnara can still have a grand return without resorting to a RSE! |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 10:16:48
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| I don't even use the Shadovar in my own campaigns |
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Topic |
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what's next for the shadovar?...
