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Julian Grimm
Seeker
86 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Mar 2010 : 16:08:21
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| Just a quick observation on the fansite thing. The lack of a policy has not stopped the production of the Oerth Journal and there are no fears on Canonfire! about IP violations. I think that Candlekeep should adopt the same attitude. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2010 : 00:27:25
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The "oldtimers" are still around and more than willing to answer questions or provide opinions/lore where appropriate. I note however that I intercede only in areas that I can assist with - given the skills of worthies such as Sage et. al., that intercession now happens only rarely. I note that I haven't had a query on my thread since November 2009 so clearly, at least in relation to this particular FR dinosaur, there is no need or call for my "expertise" (such as it is). 
Speaking personally also, I can say that 4E FR didn't "grab me" particularly, and the lack of follow-up in print was something that I found difficult to deal with. I always cherry-picked DRAGON magazine and bought from them only when they showcased FR content. I don't have an inclination to subscribe to the DDI due to the cost/utility issue given that I don't game anymore. As such, my presence here has been limited to mostly lurking for a while now.
Now wheel me into a corner and keep posting away.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2010 : 02:07:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
I would also like to address another point. The most current indirect opposition to the realms isnt even coming from anything WotC is doing, but rather the world of Golarion. Paizo has created a more or less "classic fantasy" setting rich with lore which is actively supported and shares many simularities to FR.
As a world with many different nations, some of which drawn from real world inspiration, a nation which feels like Barovia, a group of humans based off of the Cimmerians from Conan, a LE nation closely aligned with the Hells, a Mordor like nation of orcs, plus the classic elven forest nation, and dwarven mountain kingdom, and many more, all of these are drawn together into one cohesive unit that just works and doesnt feel contrived.
Even some of the notable realms designers are now working for Paizo at least in freelance form, even Ed himself has contributed to Pathfinder and Golarion, and I'm pretty sure Elaine has a Golarion novel in the works. Not to mention a few heavily FR favored forums members, such as MerrickCale, Purple Dragon Knight, and KnightErrantJR are regulars on the Paizo forums now.
Hey! What about me? You can't mention PDK, Merrik or Knight in the same sentence without including the resident fiendish dwarven librarian! 
quote:
So there it lies my friends, now I'm not saying that Golarion is going to be the Forgotten Realms death knell, but it has definately had an impact, the biggest of which I will reiterate is that it is actively supported, something FR is not.
I am curious as to how many of you have turned to Golarion in this, FR's darkest times? I know that FR will always be my favorite setting and I will continue to have games here in the years to come, but I myself have enjoyed Golarion and am really looking forward to the Kingmaker adventure path Paizo has just released.
Well, I'm still running FR campaigns (using the Pathfinder RPG rules), but I'm totally loving the Paizo stuff and Golarion; for me it *is* the 'Old Realms', in quality and spirit. And not just that; like you said, it's a rich, well-written world heavily inspired by classic fantasy, adventure and horror stories (with a bit more mature perspective on things than in most D&D settings).
When the new (Inner Sea) CS comes out this year, I'll be wrapping up my FR games and switch to running games in Golarion. It's just easier that way. Not to mention that many FR authors are writing for Paizo now. For example, I was super-excited to hear that both Ed and Steven will write stuff for the Kingmaker AP (and Elaine's 'Winter Witch' is a must-buy for me!). And Brian's work has been really inspirational, too!
Personally, I'm participating less and less on this forum, mainly because I spend most of my time on the Paizo boards and partially for a host of reasons already mentioned on the first page (such as new FR lore being just a few articles per year in DDI, which means I can't even read the articles and ergo there's no point in trying to contribute to discussions about them).
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"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 22 Mar 2010 02:10:08 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2010 : 03:19:02
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I'm slowly...and sadly for me...coming to the conclusion that unless WotC starts printing more FR material, I really just am losing interest.
When they said "these are the books...and that is all" I was kinda shell-shocked.
I mean, we could go on making new things for the Forgotten Realms on our own...but heck, doesn't each DM do that now anyway?
So...I'm slowly drifting to my own campaign world now and away from the Forgotten Realms.
What reason do customers have to be interested in something if there will be nothing coming after?
I mean, aside from perishable goods like food and drink; nearly EVERY business has to keep producing new product if they want to keep a customer interested (and, believe me, even food industries make huge efforts to keep people excited about food!).
Auto-makers come out with a new model every year.
Clothes are new and different every year.
So on and so on...but when you say "here you go...that is all" people are going to lose all interest.
I see that by publishing a new setting every year they are sort of giving a new item...but even Ford Motor Company doesn't manufacture a Ford Ranger truck and then simply say "Well, that's it...I hope it doesn't break down on ya...because we aren't going to support this model after we manufacture it."
Just silly... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2010 : 03:27:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Julian Grimm
Just a quick observation on the fansite thing. The lack of a policy has not stopped the production of the Oerth Journal and there are no fears on Canonfire! about IP violations. I think that Candlekeep should adopt the same attitude.
I'm not so sure that would work. Canonfire! has always been pretty resourceful when it comes to fan-based works, and the majority of the stuff available on their website, while derived from core and/or GH material, is based mostly on what we've read about the Flanaess in earlier editions, like 1e and 2e.
There really hasn't been much in the way of an official update for GH since that time. At least, not like we've seen with the Realms. And, yes, I know, technically, most 3e sources could double as GH sources for the most part. But the World of GREYHAWK was never that generic. And most 3e sources had to specifically remain setting-neutral so they could work well within other published worlds also. Hence why many GH fans considered 3e D&D to be GREYHAWK-lite.
But the FORGOTTEN REALMS has received specific updates and attention from Wizards since the introduction of 3e in 2000. That makes it somewhat more difficult for Candlekeep to work with the lore and published compilations like the Candlekeep Compendium. And with the timeline now set, specifically, in 1479 DR as of 4e [August '08], we simply can't enjoy the same sort of luxuries we treasured in the past when working with the Realmslore for fan-based projects. There's a great deal more "legalese" to muddle through in order to reach an understanding with Wizards that would allow us to continue in a fashion similar to what we had in the past.
To rush through, or even just simply ignore, such considerations, could potentially land this site in some very deep and heated waters. And I'm talking probably deeper and hotter than those found in the Nine Hells!
Plus, there's the fact that we regularly and almost routinely receive contributions from official writers/designers and that their words are stored here at Candlekeep. A circumstance that really can't be completely duplicated by Canonfire! [though, I have noticed some articles from old and official GH-lorelords in the past]. This, again, makes our position somewhat unique in terms of our relationship with official Wizards intellectual property.
So, basically, when you consider all of that, and given the apparent vagaries of the current fansite policy released by Wizards, Candlekeep cannot simply afford to do what only we feel is best here. There are the needs of others, like Wizards, and all the writers/designers who visit here, to consider as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 22 Mar 2010 03:30:12 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2010 : 04:36:35
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Julian Grimm
Just a quick observation on the fansite thing. The lack of a policy has not stopped the production of the Oerth Journal and there are no fears on Canonfire! about IP violations. I think that Candlekeep should adopt the same attitude.
I'm not so sure that would work. Canonfire! has always been pretty resourceful when it comes to fan-based works, and the majority of the stuff available on their website, while derived from core and/or GH material, is based mostly on what we've read about the Flanaess in earlier editions, like 1e and 2e.
There really hasn't been much in the way of an official update for GH since that time. At least, not like we've seen with the Realms. And, yes, I know, technically, most 3e sources could double as GH sources for the most part. But the World of GREYHAWK was never that generic. And most 3e sources had to specifically remain setting-neutral so they could work well within other published worlds also. Hence why many GH fans considered 3e D&D to be GREYHAWK-lite.
But the FORGOTTEN REALMS has received specific updates and attention from Wizards since the introduction of 3e in 2000. That makes it somewhat more difficult for Candlekeep to work with the lore and published compilations like the Candlekeep Compendium. And with the timeline now set, specifically, in 1479 DR as of 4e [August '08], we simply can't enjoy the same sort of luxuries we treasured in the past when working with the Realmslore for fan-based projects. There's a great deal more "legalese" to muddle through in order to reach an understanding with Wizards that would allow us to continue in a fashion similar to what we had in the past.
To rush through, or even just simply ignore, such considerations, could potentially land this site in some very deep and heated waters. And I'm talking probably deeper and hotter than those found in the Nine Hells!
Plus, there's the fact that we regularly and almost routinely receive contributions from official writers/designers and that their words are stored here at Candlekeep. A circumstance that really can't be completely duplicated by Canonfire! [though, I have noticed some articles from old and official GH-lorelords in the past]. This, again, makes our position somewhat unique in terms of our relationship with official Wizards intellectual property.
So, basically, when you consider all of that, and given the apparent vagaries of the current fansite policy released by Wizards, Candlekeep cannot simply afford to do what only we feel is best here. There are the needs of others, like Wizards, and all the writers/designers who visit here, to consider as well.
So what guidelines must be addressed when submitting/posting Fan material? I've a few homebrew stuff that I'd like to share (4E stuff mostly) and some cool conversions of relics and items from previous sources. Does this mean that I can't post them or if I do, some legal gu-ru will step in and say no?! I just don't see any of that happening. Nothing is done for profit or to undermine WotC's business and if anything, it promotes their product and gets more people interested. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2010 : 04:52:03
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| Until we hear otherwise, I don't think there'd be too much of a problem with you posting that stuff here. That's what the Adventuring shelf is for, after all. And it's a tradition that's been part of Candlekeep since the very beginning. That ain't about to change... again, unless we've been told otherwise. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2010 : 05:53:57
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quote:
Originally posted by DiffanSo what guidelines must be addressed when submitting/posting Fan material? I've a few homebrew stuff that I'd like to share (4E stuff mostly) and some cool conversions of relics and items from previous sources. Does this mean that I can't post them or if I do, some legal gu-ru will step in and say no?! I just don't see any of that happening. Nothing is done for profit or to undermine WotC's business and if anything, it promotes their product and gets more people interested.
I suggest going over the Fan Site Kit EULA with a fine tooth comb. As it states:
quote:
Please note that this Fan Site Policy does not allow you to publish, distribute or sell your own free-to-use games, modules or applications for any of Wizards' brands including, but not limited to, Dungeons & Dragons and Magic: The Gathering. If you want to engage in any of these activities related to Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition, such use is subject to the Game System License http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome.
And since the GSL prohibits using OGL material in a GSL product, that means that, in my un-professional opinion, a Compendium that complies with the GSL may not have items in it that were free to publish under the OGL.
quote:
Q: Can I use the GSL and OGL in the same title?
A: There is no provision in the GSL preventing the of use the OGL but publishers must take care to not assume content in the OGL SRD is the same as like-named content in the GSL SRD. For example, using the definition of “Cleric” from the OGL SRD in a product licensed under the GSL would violate the GSL. GSL definitions and provisions supersede like terms and provisions of the OGL (for example, GSL restrictions on explaining the process of assigning ability scores with respect to Character Creation)
Does that make sense? Because I get confused when trying to figure out what I could and couldn't publish, and I consider myself pretty bright. So, if you want to publish material, make sure that you've read the GSL and sent in a Signature Form and that form has been accepted by WotC/Hasbro. Otherwise, I'd keep a lawyer's number handy. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2010 : 21:44:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
For me, it's simple. I knew there would be a huge divide. I knew there wouldn't be anymore proper Realms lore being introduced to the setting from 4E and up.
Ouch, that burn hurts- especially to those of us who still produce Realmslore.
I won't be giving up on the Realms anytime soon. I guess I'll see you guys on the flip-side. Enjoy Golarion- it's a great setting as well. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2010 : 02:32:17
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less Core and more Setting articles would actually be the ointment for those burns.
I could for instance use some more Realmslore, some Eberron listings and some AThas Chronicles.
less Points of light.
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 23 Mar 2010 02:41:19 |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2010 : 15:47:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
So there it lies my friends, now I'm not saying that Golarion is going to be the Forgotten Realms death knell, but it has definately had an impact, the biggest of which I will reiterate is that it is actively supported, something FR is not.
I am curious as to how many of you have turned to Golarion in this, FR's darkest times? I know that FR will always be my favorite setting and I will continue to have games here in the years to come, but I myself have enjoyed Golarion and am really looking forward to the Kingmaker adventure path Paizo has just released.
Golarion is brilliant... so much so that I'm making the non-4E-canon Toril bigger for it. The whole Abeir-Toril conjunction nonsense? I'm employing the same basic idea, but pulling in Golarion instead of mucking about with Faerun and (by implication) the rest of Toril. I have other ideas too, but I need to do some planet-size assessment first. 
I'm outlining for something similar and may end up cramming Golarion onto Toril as another continent. It will probably play second fiddle to Elaran which is my homebrew continent. |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2010 : 16:41:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
For me, it's simple. I knew there would be a huge divide. I knew there wouldn't be anymore proper Realms lore being introduced to the setting from 4E and up.
Ouch, that burn hurts- especially to those of us who still produce Realmslore.
I won't be giving up on the Realms anytime soon. I guess I'll see you guys on the flip-side. Enjoy Golarion- it's a great setting as well.
Is the new Realmslore only in the form of DDI articles? I am curious as to the percentage of Candlekeep members who have DDI accounts. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2010 : 16:49:47
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| New lore in the Novels. New lore in the LFR.(Living Realms) I had a DDI Subscription. I let it expire in Feb. At the beginning the Realms articles were few and far between. The Sarifal article was good. The last 6 months has seen a drastic increase in Realms articles. Ed has a monthly series called Eye on the Realms. If I could only buy those articles I would. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2010 : 21:53:47
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Look. Here's how it is.
You can view 4e FR as an insult to previous lore, or not--that's your prerogative. I get that WotC's publishing strategy (dictated by Hasbro) hurt you--that sucks. I completely understand the desire to lash out and call 4e FR work a mockery--I really do, and I sympathize completely.
But regardless of your opinion, I'm going to continue to produce Realms stuff. If that's 4e FR, then so be it. I would like my work to be judged on its own merits, but if it falls victim to the fallout of the rest of 4e FR hate, then so be it. I'm still going to produce it.
Not to speak for Ed, Bob, Paul, Brian, Matt, all the authors currently writing in the setting, and scores of other designers and creators whose names would take too long to list . . . but I for one love the setting, and that's where I'm working, whenever I can. (It's not for the money--believe me, it's not.)
I continue to write Realmslore. I have written two FR DDI articles in the past six months, and I'm currently negotiating more. I wrote the PHB3 Game Day adventure, which I set in the Realms. I wrote the D&D Encounters series--which is being played all over the U.S. and beyond--which I set in the Realms. I actively sneak FR tie-ins into every D&D project they put me on (the forthcoming Plane Above, for instance). I've published a novel and a short story in the Realms, and I'm currently writing more fiction set there.
I love other fiction, and am actively working on publishing my own non-shared world fiction. I love Golarion, and I would love to write there (if I ever got the opportunity). But I also love the Realms, and I'm going to keep supporting them. That's just a fact.
And I for one don't give a damn if folks out there appreciate my work or not, or if they want to deny its validity. I, for one, am still going to do it, for as long as I can.
That's it.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 23 Mar 2010 21:58:01 |
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Julian Grimm
Seeker
86 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2010 : 22:39:37
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| Sadly the FR fans have fallen victim to the same things that happened to the Greyhawk fans. I'm sure the community will move on but there will be a divide that will never be fully healed. That said, my opinion is that Realmslore does not matter to me. I was more concerned about the supplement books which seem not to come in 4e. As well, I don't like what was done to the Realms for 4e either. Luckily having been through this before I can cope and hope that the brain damage that destroyed FR will be reversed some day. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2010 : 22:53:57
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| SFDragon, my Realmslore articles have nothing to do with Points of Light. I am not understanding your correlation. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 00:04:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
For me, it's simple. I knew there would be a huge divide. I knew there wouldn't be anymore proper Realms lore being introduced to the setting from 4E and up.
Ouch, that burn hurts- especially to those of us who still produce Realmslore.
I won't be giving up on the Realms anytime soon. I guess I'll see you guys on the flip-side. Enjoy Golarion- it's a great setting as well.
Is the new Realmslore only in the form of DDI articles? I am curious as to the percentage of Candlekeep members who have DDI accounts.
Well, I have one. 'Twas a birthday present from last year. And it's something I've really come to appreciate, as some of the articles have been rather interesting. Not so much in terms of rules, as most scribes know that's rarely been my focus with D&D or the Realms. It's the lore I love, and I've seen some pretty intriguing stuff coming out of the DDI.
In terms of new Realmslore, Brimstone has the right of it. Granted it's not filtering through at a rate I'd like, but it's worthwhile appreciating that Wizards have a lot of material to cover every month, and there's only so much room in each issue of the digital DRAGON and DUNGEON Magazines. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 24 Mar 2010 00:12:24 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 00:11:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
SFDragon, my Realmslore articles have nothing to do with Points of Light. I am not understanding your correlation.
Agreed.
And I'll add that the whole "Points of Light" theme that was supposedly going to be such a major component of 4e lore, just doesn't seem to be all that pronounced. I've seen a few references here and there, but, for the most part, the majority of lore carries on in much the same way as the lore of previous editions. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 00:11:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
SFDragon, my Realmslore articles have nothing to do with Points of Light. I am not understanding your correlation.
I want to see less articles that deal with the points of light core, and more things that deal with the individual settings.
basically its
I don't want to see anymore things about the RAvenqueen, or any of the core part of the game unless its a new powers book....
so are the encounters adventure or adventures going to be released on DDI or the bookshelf at some point???
cant get away wed, not that it matters much, someone would have to teach me to play the pnp version.....
if I cant make my opinion any clearer, then the Fey Jack addled my brain and you should not try to figure that one out.
edit: its a gripe about DDI in general, not any of the FR articles thus far.
edit: My spelling...... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 24 Mar 2010 00:23:36 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 01:35:03
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Well said Erik, well said.
I gave DDI a year, the Realms articles got alot better at the end of said year.
I might in a few months get another year subscription.
I am buying the Novels. Only missing the first Wilds novel |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 03:46:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
In terms of new Realmslore, Brimstone has the right of it. Granted it's not filtering through at a rate I'd like, but it's worthwhile appreciating that Wizards have a lot of material to cover every month, and there's only so much room in each issue of the digital DRAGON and DUNGEON Magazines.
I'm certainly not trying to stir things up here, but I have to ask one question about that last part: Why is there only so much room? With a digital offering, file size is your only real limit, and you can pack a lot of material into a relatively small file.
As I've said before, one of my two biggest complaints about the DDI is that there's not enough material in it that I would find useful enough to justify the cost. Considering that in the recent past -- just a few years ago! -- WotC was giving us sourcebooks, articles and adventures in two magazines, novels, and web material, there is certainly no reason that they can't offer us more online material now. They produced a lot of stuff in the past and went thru more difficulty and more channels to get it to us, now they've got one easier, centralized method, and we get considerably less setting-specific lore.
My stance on the "all or nothing" approach to the DDI remains -- but if we were getting more Realms material than I've been hearing about, I'd be a lot more willing to reconsider. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Mar 2010 03:48:22 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 04:29:13
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I cant say for certain, buy my guess would be that if said article is dragon or dungeon annual worthy
it has to be able to fit in said splatbook along with the rest of the best of.
this is my opinion, so its best to take it or leave it wit ha grain of salt.
also I see the DDI ending up with articles of each setting in it, so much so that it would do better to ditch the dragon/ dungeon annual in splat form, and just put it all out on a dvd or cd whichever it would fit it for the year. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 05:12:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
In terms of new Realmslore, Brimstone has the right of it. Granted it's not filtering through at a rate I'd like, but it's worthwhile appreciating that Wizards have a lot of material to cover every month, and there's only so much room in each issue of the digital DRAGON and DUNGEON Magazines.
I'm certainly not trying to stir things up here, but I have to ask one question about that last part: Why is there only so much room? With a digital offering, file size is your only real limit, and you can pack a lot of material into a relatively small file.
True. But most issues available via the DDI seem to have a certain page limit. And Wizards often stick to that limit for each issue every month. Thus, each article is allotted only a few pages of space in a particular issue. So, while the digital nature of that individual issue might, at least initially, offer the opportunity for plenty of space, I'm thinking Wizards is trying to stick to a model that follows, somewhat, on the heels of the publishing format for the old printed DRAGON issues.
Plus, there's the availability of the complete download of the PDF containing the entire series of articles for the month. I'd assume that download size also has to be kept under a certain limit also, which would be difficult to maintain on a monthly basis if the space allotted for articles were to dramatically expand. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 24 Mar 2010 05:16:27 |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 06:29:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
I am curious as to how many of you have turned to Golarion in this, FR's darkest times? I know that FR will always be my favorite setting and I will continue to have games here in the years to come, but I myself have enjoyed Golarion and am really looking forward to the Kingmaker adventure path Paizo has just released.
*wave*
My current campaign is planar, but its first major plot arc was on Toril (the Great Barrow), and lots of FR influence among the PCs background. The last D&D game I played in was also an FR game (Netheril era 3.x game), but it seems likely that my group has given up on FR in its current incarnation (the group rejected 4e, and 4e FR more strongly still). We might run a 3.x FR game, but in our limited time and lots of games and settings as options, I really doubt that we'll revisit FR anytime soon. It's really sad given how much we enjoyed it, and how many FR sourcebooks (and novels) some of us have.
The torch has been passed though, and my next campaign will be a Golarion game with a heavy planar influence. Golarion has really become a favorite of mine, and not just because I've gotten to build a lot of planar sandcastles in Paizo's sandbox. :D |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 13:15:48
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| its interesting to see that a number of FR luminaries past and present have visited this scroll and 1 even vented spectacularly. The keep is a live and well, but to avoid the death and disinterest that peoples constant carping about different editions is surely bringing. I am waiting for just two things. 1. WOTC to clarify Candlekeeps position in their eyes as a fan site and 2) for people to realise that the realms is bigger than any one edition or cataclysm. We have been playing an arcane age campaign for years, but with 4E FR we have a whole new playground where PC's can become the new heroes (the new Justice League). Elminster won't kark it so long as Ed keeps adding to the lore of the realms (after all he is Ed's mouth peace). The realms is constantly evolving so with nearly 40000 years to play in its a rather vast playground..... PS who want to play in Imaskar....thats where we're headed next...... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 15:09:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
In terms of new Realmslore, Brimstone has the right of it. Granted it's not filtering through at a rate I'd like, but it's worthwhile appreciating that Wizards have a lot of material to cover every month, and there's only so much room in each issue of the digital DRAGON and DUNGEON Magazines.
I'm certainly not trying to stir things up here, but I have to ask one question about that last part: Why is there only so much room? With a digital offering, file size is your only real limit, and you can pack a lot of material into a relatively small file.
I think the "room" can also be described as "allocated budget". Basically, Dragon and Dungeon pay on a per word basis (last I checked the submissions page on Wizards), so they likely have a set budget about how much to spend paying people to write material, thus the limited ammount of space used. That's the only plausible explanation I can see, which actually makes sense (from a business standpoint). We must remember also that the printed versions of the magazines were like many other magazines. They looked full, but when you looked inside, it was mostly advertisements. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 15:09:44
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| doubled post....Sage needs to level up to Epic to get rid of them |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
Edited by - Alisttair on 24 Mar 2010 15:10:27 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 15:40:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
its interesting to see that a number of FR luminaries past and present have visited this scroll and 1 even vented spectacularly.
I don't know if that's me you're talking about, but I don't see my post as venting. It's just a simple statement of fact. I am very sympathetic if people feel hurt and betrayed, but I'm more interested in moving forward than rehashing these issues. I just don't have the energy to do both.
quote:
2) for people to realise that the realms is bigger than any one edition or cataclysm.
This point FTW.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 18:37:48
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Guys, WotC has a budget as well. If they would contract me (or Erik, or Brian, or anyone else that frequents here) to write to our hearts content- I would quit my day-job and start right now ;) The fact is that they don't and they set word-count limits for a reason. They also see digital trends that they would be really ignorant to ignore. For the first time ever, I am able to pull up articles over my smart-phone. I have access to DDI whereever there is a 3G connection! (woot) Many people see the benefit in that and unfortunately that means the print side will suffer.
By the way, this is not just a problem in the DnD world- publishing in general is suffering heavily and many are scrambling to find new ways to reinvent the industry. Check out any number of publishers out there and you will see the trend. This is why the Kindle is kicking butt- people love it. |
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Eye of Horus-Re
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2010 : 19:46:13
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I have stated before at my sadness over the fact that there will not be any 1300's lore and stories coming from WoTC anymore. THAT ASIDE. I have come to this realization after reading Erik's "Downshadow". I find it fascinating to see how the writers take these ideas and the lore and turn them into "ancient stuff from the past" that the characters in the books have to go up against. We do this with our games all the time. Myth Drannor wasnt all that long ago from a 1300's storyline perspective. (Same idea)
Also, I take it as a personal challenge as a GM to take some of their ideas and set the seeds for them in my game. (WARNING SPOILER FROM "DOWNSHADOW")
FOR EXAMPLE:
Avaereene is a Wizard in service to The Eye slaving orginazation in Undermountain. (circa 1370's) In Downshadow, she shows up as a Lich as part of a new formation of that same group 100 years later. Instead of saying "Oh well that just happened during the spellplague". I say: How can I have that start to happen and effect my game in 1374?
So while the new lore will not be continuing the story of FR as I would like to see it, that doesnt mean that these guys dont come up with some really great stuff. And with a little creativity, use it in our 1370's or earlier games anyway. |
Long live 1384 and that which came before....!!! |
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What happened to Open ,Free and Spirited Debate?
