| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 22:53:37
|
So Irenicus tries to link with this tree in suldanessallar
They stop him, and **** him up royally
He restores himself somewhat with someone elses soul
He goes back and tries to link with this tree again
Once again someone stops him.
I wonder. Why is it that he needed someone elses soul to do that whole tree link thing again, and what was it he was trying to do. What would have happened if he wasn't stopped.
Is there a difference between what he was trying to do the first time and the second time?...
What would happen if he got a third shot at it, and this time noone stopped him?
interesting thought isn't it? 
|
|
|
Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 11:27:03
|
I believe that elves of that region would be doomed, unless someone powerful enough to stop him or someone who cares about the balance (like harpers). But of course such scenario is impossible, because:
1. He is deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep in Hell.  
2. He won't get the another Bhaalspawn soul. (the last are too freaking strong and intelligent for him). 
3. He won't find another source of power good enough to force merge with the tree.
If someone believes otherwise, please say it. I am very interested. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
|
 |
|
|
bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 22:19:29
|
Re: I wonder. Why is it that he needed someone elses soul to do that whole tree link thing again, and what was it he was trying to do. What would have happened if he wasn't stopped.
He needed a Bhaalspawn's soul b/c its divine (any divine soul would do, but no one would care if the victim was a Bhaalspawn, in Irenicus' opportunistic mind) to offset the curse he and his sister were under, having being stripped of everything elven. They were rotting away, being elves but yet not being elves.
He was trying to merge w/the Tree of Life, drain its essence so that it'd be fully under his will, and join the Seldarine, the divine pantheon of the elves in FR.
Re: Is there a difference between what he was trying to do the first time and the second time?...
In purpose, no. But the difference was the elves pretty much let him off easy the first time, and he came back much stronger in the second time, showin the Wealdath elves how foolish they were for lettin him off easy in the 1st go-around.
Re: What would happen if he got a third shot at it, and this time noone stopped him?
Theoretically, he would've joined the Seldarine. That there'd be wars in Arvandor thereafter would be besides the point, as I reckon Irenicus thought he could overtake Correllon and others portfolio's by killing them.
|
Edited by - bladeinAmn on 17 Feb 2010 22:21:19 |
|
|
|
Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 22:56:16
|
| I'd like to ask a quick question if I may, please. Was there ever a template released for 3E that would tell you the benefits of being a Bhaalspawn? If so or if someone has an idea of what the benefits would be, I'd very much like to see it, please. My players and I were talking about it not so very long ago. |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
|
|
|
WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 23:34:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
I'd like to ask a quick question if I may, please. Was there ever a template released for 3E that would tell you the benefits of being a Bhaalspawn? If so or if someone has an idea of what the benefits would be, I'd very much like to see it, please. My players and I were talking about it not so very long ago.
well use the deties book thing and give them divine rank 0, if you want them powerful, or go with baldurs gate II, give them a few nice abilities like 6 spells per day of something minor. |
|
|
|
WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 23:41:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by bladeinAmn
He needed a Bhaalspawn's soul b/c its divine (any divine soul would do, but no one would care if the victim was a Bhaalspawn, in Irenicus' opportunistic mind) to offset the curse he and his sister were under, having being stripped of everything elven. They were rotting away, being elves but yet not being elves.
I have a few questions on this.
Was he a demigod as an elf then, otherwise why would a simple Elven soul not be enough?,
(or was it the strength of the curse that the divine soul was needed for, if so what did the soul do?, as far as I know he didn't become more elven from the bhaalspawn soul, or is it a requirement like "only uncursed elves or divine beings can link with the tree"?)
Would the wealdath elves suffer any consequences from him abusing the tree, or in short I'm assuming that his planned ascention would drain the tree, so what was it the trees purpose was? Wouldn't the elves be fine without it?
I can't imagin that the elves would die without the tree, I mean maybe be a little sad, Irenicus didn't die. So what does the tree do? And why is it the fast track to becomming a god?
|
|
|
|
bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2010 : 07:47:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by WarlockII
quote:
Originally posted by bladeinAmn
He needed a Bhaalspawn's soul b/c its divine (any divine soul would do, but no one would care if the victim was a Bhaalspawn, in Irenicus' opportunistic mind) to offset the curse he and his sister were under, having being stripped of everything elven. They were rotting away, being elves but yet not being elves.
I have a few questions on this.
Was he a demigod as an elf then, otherwise why would a simple Elven soul not be enough?,
(or was it the strength of the curse that the divine soul was needed for, if so what did the soul do?, as far as I know he didn't become more elven from the bhaalspawn soul, or is it a requirement like "only uncursed elves or divine beings can link with the tree"?)
Would the wealdath elves suffer any consequences from him abusing the tree, or in short I'm assuming that his planned ascention would drain the tree, so what was it the trees purpose was? Wouldn't the elves be fine without it?
I can't imagin that the elves would die without the tree, I mean maybe be a little sad, Irenicus didn't die. So what does the tree do? And why is it the fast track to becomming a god?
He wasn't a demigod as an elf. Rather he was an EXTREMELY (as in no exaggeration whatsoever) talented mage who understood deep magical principles unto becoming an outstanding mage.
As far as I know, he was still 'elf enough' to still be considered an elf, but he was stripped of the things that made elves different from humans (ie-long lifespan, naturally attune to nature, etc.). I think he felt the need for a divine soul to offset the curse put on him, and perhaps for an extra boost regarding his goal of challenging the Seldarine. I don't rightly know as of yet, but that's thus far what I've come up with. So yes I believe that its in accordance w/the last thing you said about that question that "only uncursed elves or divine beings can link with the tree".
I assume the elves would've been fine w/o the Tree of Life, albeit w/a heavy hole in their heart (b/c its the Tree of Life!), and in their spirits b/c of their attunement to nature. However, Irenicus had proven that he craved power above all else, no matter the consequences for his fellow elves, no matter how much Ellisime loved him, and even no matter the fact that he was a mortal who didn't care about anyone except himself (thus having no right to even begin to question the Seldarine). W/all that in mind, had Irenicus goals come to full fruition, the elves would have to deal w/a very skilled and powerful megalomaniac ascending over them, not as a king, but as a deity!
I don't think that linking with (and possibly destroying) the Tree of Life was fastracking to godhood, but I do believe that it was a physical link between the prime material (Toril) and heaven (Arvandor). And thus I believe that Irenicus had found a way (beyond my current comprehension, I should note) to possibly enter Arvandor through the Tree of Life, and thereby seek to either join or destroy the Seldarine, as per his megalomaniac bent.
That's my take on it all anyways. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could help us out. |
Edited by - bladeinAmn on 19 Feb 2010 07:47:38 |
|
|
|
WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2010 : 18:40:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by bladeinAmn
I don't think that linking with (and possibly destroying) the Tree of Life was fastracking to godhood, but I do believe that it was a physical link between the prime material (Toril) and heaven (Arvandor). And thus I believe that Irenicus had found a way (beyond my current comprehension, I should note) to possibly enter Arvandor through the Tree of Life, and thereby seek to either join or destroy the Seldarine, as per his megalomaniac bent.
That's my take on it all anyways. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could help us out.
After sleeping on it I think I figured out this part, like you said Irenicus seems to know something noone else knows about the tree. And it would appear that he doesn't give a damn about the bhaalspawn soul he stole which in itself is a free lottery ticket to godhood. The tree of life is a god, or infused with divine energi by the seldarine. Siphoning this energi would, with the right processing likely requiring a genius like irenicus to do, make the person doing it a god (divine rank 1+). So Irenicus didn't care about the chance with the bhaalspawn soul because he had a sure ticket to godhood with the tree, and oh revenge!. It doesn't really matter if the tree is a god in itself or imbued with divine energi, though it seems the wealdath elves venerate the tree like a god.
|
|
|
|
Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2010 : 07:44:20
|
Actually I got a question if you don't mind.
Let's consider Irenicus was successful and became god. What forbids the Seldarine to make him cast out for his heinous acts against his people or even strip him of his power? It is not like he will become the intermediate power or higher just by merging with the divine essence of the tree. Or I'm erring about the quality of the tree essence? What elves are going to worship such monster? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
|
|
|
|
WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2010 : 19:30:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Actually I got a question if you don't mind.
Let's consider Irenicus was successful and became god. What forbids the Seldarine to make him cast out for his heinous acts against his people or even strip him of his power? It is not like he will become the intermediate power or higher just by merging with the divine essence of the tree. Or I'm erring about the quality of the tree essence? What elves are going to worship such monster?
The Elven Pantheon is rather big, it includes Lolth and other nasties, and as you may know it was not the "goodie gods" who killed off the rest of the other bad elven gods it was Lolth and she did that a good while after this whole bhaalspawn affair, so there were plenty of lowrank evil nasty deties in the elven pantheon at the time. I'm sure John would find someone to hide behind, as you might have noticed he had a decent relationship with the drow. He appears to have negociated with them before in the game. |
|
|
|
Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2010 : 11:15:25
|
Yes, Irenicus allied with drow. BUT if you remember the his scene with drow, you would agree that alliance would be impossible if they learned his elf identity. He would be dead on the spot.
Also about Lolth and drow pantheon. They are exiles, also known as Dark Seldarine. Their connection with Seldarine is frail like of drows and elves. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
|
|
|
|
bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2010 : 06:34:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Yes, Irenicus allied with drow. BUT if you remember the his scene with drow, you would agree that alliance would be impossible if they learned his elf identity. He would be dead on the spot.
Also about Lolth and drow pantheon. They are exiles, also known as Dark Seldarine. Their connection with Seldarine is frail like of drows and elves.
I remember the scene. It was a cutscene when he's talking to Phaere and the Matron Mother, and drow soldiers bring two Wealdath elven warriors which Irenicus then kills via two Disintegrate spells.
I personally think that both the Matron Mother and Phaere knew that Irenicus was an elf. But b/c they both had a common enemy (the Wealdath elves), they viewed him as a vehicle to their own means. Not to mention as well that Irenicus is extremely and blatantly powerful, so surely the Matron Mother and Phaere knew not to mess w/him, and that its in their best interest to align themselves w/him, especially since they had the same goal of destroying the Wealdath elves.
Irenicus was an elf, but he was also a traitor. A very powerful one at that. He needed the drow, and the drow saw it wise to use him. |
|
|
|
Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2010 : 09:00:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by bladeinAmn
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Yes, Irenicus allied with drow. BUT if you remember the his scene with drow, you would agree that alliance would be impossible if they learned his elf identity. He would be dead on the spot.
Also about Lolth and drow pantheon. They are exiles, also known as Dark Seldarine. Their connection with Seldarine is frail like of drows and elves.
I remember the scene. It was a cutscene when he's talking to Phaere and the Matron Mother, and drow soldiers bring two Wealdath elven warriors which Irenicus then kills via two Disintegrate spells.
I personally think that both the Matron Mother and Phaere knew that Irenicus was an elf. But b/c they both had a common enemy (the Wealdath elves), they viewed him as a vehicle to their own means. Not to mention as well that Irenicus is extremely and blatantly powerful, so surely the Matron Mother and Phaere knew not to mess w/him, and that its in their best interest to align themselves w/him, especially since they had the same goal of destroying the Wealdath elves.
Irenicus was an elf, but he was also a traitor. A very powerful one at that. He needed the drow, and the drow saw it wise to use him.
I want to accentuate the point that Jon Irenicus changed his mind about keeping them as the slaves WHEN they tried to say about him being one of their race. He cast disintegrate immediately because he didn't want the leak of information. More about that, drow would act paranoid if they new his identity. The hatred to the 'faerie elves' makes the drow to attack them on sight, no matter the power of the enemy. And they would see the Irenicus as double agent, who would lead them to the trap to massacre them.
Also, power is not the reason to tolerate him. Drow have mighty wizards, clerics, various magical contraptions and cunning. (Remember the imprisonment vault? ) If contact with pit lord was successful, they would have enough power to leave only bloody puddle from Irenicus and his surface kind. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
|
|
|
|
bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 05:30:52
|
I see your point, as I now recall one of the prisoners saying "Joneleth, what are you doing w/these monsters!" and then he Disintegrated them, whereas before he endorsed interrogating them.
But then there's also the point of the drow Raamilat being outside of Priestess Demin's house in Sundanessallar, and I'm thinking the only way he got there would've been by Irenicus.
I want to say the truth might be somewhere in the middle of what you and I believe, but I'm thinking that'd be nigh impossible as well. There's evidence of his elven ancestry being unknown to the Drow of Ust Natha (killing the elven warriors instead of interrogating them), and evidence of them knowing (why would Raamilat follow Irenicus into Sundanessallar, if the drow suspected him of being a double agent, and being brought into faerie-elf territory?). I guess its all open to interpretation, and something I'd love to explore at that! |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
What if? (Irenicus)
