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BlackDragonKarameikos
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 00:30:13
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Ok, I have a question concenring the challenge rating for a Lycanthrope.
In the MM for example it gives the LA for a Weretiger as a +3, but in the Race of Faerun it gives a LA of +1 (for infected) or a +2 (for Natural).
Which one is actually correct? the one in the MM or the one in RoF?
The reaso I ask is that it will affect the level at which the Lycan starts out at.
Any help will be appreciated.
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 10:09:50
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I think the correct is the one in MM. For a couple of reasons:
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wintermute27
Learned Scribe
USA
179 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 18:45:51
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I agree with Arioch. +1/+2 LA is just a little too low.
Also, remember that weretigers also get 6 racial hit die (d8s) in addition to the level adjustment (MM, p.178-179 & p.281). So a natural weretiger with 1 level of fighter would have an ECL of 10 (1 fighter HD + 6 racial HD + 3 LA) according to 3.5 rules. I've always found that racial hit die tend to make things a bit too complicated with their accompanying skill points, saves, and feats, so I've usually never allowed characters with them in my games. In the rare instances that a player has a really good story reason to use a race or template with racial hit dice, I've found it's not too difficult to modify it down to keep the level disparity from being too terrible. |
My Current Campaign: The Adventures of the Stonelanders |
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BlackDragonKarameikos
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 19:17:14
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Thanks for the info, and I agree with you both.
The LA in the RoF is a little too low for my tastes as well, it only seems right that the Lycanthropes would have a higher LA than what is listed od RoF.
And I do know that Wintermute27, when calculating ECL for any Lycan, it is class level + Racial Hit Dice + LA. |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2010 : 19:21:19
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| Just a reminder. When you refer to core books like the Monster Manual and make reference to specific rule sets, can you please specify the edition? Thanks. |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 08 Feb 2010 19:22:04 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36794 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 00:51:47
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| A wonderful source on werecritters is SKR's Curse of the Moon. It's a $5 pdf from one of the 3E writers, and it's got some good stuff -- including a better way to handle werePCs. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31722 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 01:16:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
A wonderful source on werecritters is SKR's Curse of the Moon. It's a $5 pdf from one of the 3E writers, and it's got some good stuff -- including a better way to handle werePCs.
And, of course, the indispensable 2e Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts offers a wealth of were-critter ideas and lore that has never wholly been surpassed since its early publication. |
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BlackDragonKarameikos
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 06:17:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And, of course, the indispensable 2e Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts offers a wealth of were-critter ideas and lore that has never wholly been surpassed since its early publication.
Very true Sage, I read the section on werecreatures all this past week and found a few bits I may use.
My question now is this: in the book it lists a table for Bloodlust, on the table it gives a set of modifiers for different things. Would the modifiers stack or would only the largest modifier take precedence?
Also, in the book it gives a seperate table for specific vulnerabilities would these override the vulnerability to silver or would it be that the Werecreature is suceptible to both Silver AND that secondary vulnerability as well? For Example: the Weretiger is listed as being vulnerable to Obsidian, would it be vulnerable to both or just to one?
Also, would the save for Bloodlust be a Fort save or a Will save? My guess is Will, as it is trying to keep from transforming into its animal or hybrid form. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2010 : 20:55:33
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| The new vulnerabilities in Van Richten would probably override the existing vulnerability to silver. In most cases. But remember what the good doctor says: there's no such thing as an average lycanthrope. Some might be vulnerable to just one, others to both, and a deadly few to neither. The entire Van Richten series is one giant mind screw for your players. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36794 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2010 : 23:24:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
The entire Van Richten series is one giant mind screw for your players.
I prefer to think of it as evil fun for the DM.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31722 Posts |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36794 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 06:22:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
What about homebrew lycanthropes? How do you determine their weakness? I ask because I have this one NPC wererabbit I've been running. She's a dire carnivorous rabbit in animal form. Don't ask.....
I'd make their weaknesses be something related to their nature and/or to perceptions of them. Rabbits are noted for being fast, so maybe they'd be especially susceptible to something that slowed them down. Rabbits are also known for rapid procreation, so perhaps a weakness could be something fertility-related. |
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BlackDragonKarameikos
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 14:44:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
What about homebrew lycanthropes? How do you determine their weakness? I ask because I have this one NPC wererabbit I've been running. She's a dire carnivorous rabbit in animal form. Don't ask.....
My suggestion is this... Do a search on rabbits and see if they list anything that is poisonous to them. If so them you could use that or possibly make up your own weakness for them.
If you have access to the Van Richten's guide books then I would suggest looking in there, as they give a list of weakenessess of the known Lycans, you could use one of those.
A weakness that I would think your Lycan would have is one to Arsnic, but that is only one idea off of the top of my head. You as the DM have to make the final choice as to what, if any, weakenessess the lycan has. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 19:59:48
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If the wererabbit is carnivorous as you said, I would suggest making carrots and lettuce horribly poisonous. The real problems starts with the vampiric rabbits and killing it with a carrot stick.
I think I've been watching to much sports these last two weeks. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 20:48:53
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Alas, I don't have access to the Van Richten's books. I am kinda wondering what made you suggest arsenic, BlackDraong. And thank you Woolly, for those suggestions. What would slow down a rabbit? Hmm, maybe tortoiseshell....
Vampiric rabbits? Jorkens, you didn't happen to read Bunnicula as a kid, did you, lol? The carrot does have some interesting possibilities.... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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BlackDragonKarameikos
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2010 : 20:22:37
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| well the reason I suggested Arsenic is beacuse it is lethal to humans so it would be the same to rabbits. One of the suggetions in the Van Richten's guide was a weakness of Ginseng for Weretigers, which is why I mentioned the Arsenic. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 21:29:11
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| Well, I'm pretty sure arsenic is lethal to just about anything, lol! Anyway, I mostly came up with it as a fun way to give my players a scare and a laugh at the same time, especially once they realized that the captured "bunny" was a meat-eater. An then it changed into a human.... Yeah, THAT one really threw them. (And yes, Monte Python was my inspiration for this one.) But I would like to come up with a full template for them, just to give my world a little unique flair. I have were-panthers, were-snakes, and were-lizards, too.... Still working on all of those. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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BlackDragonKarameikos
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 05:13:04
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| I actually worked up a were-cheetah and have it all stated out. Not too hard to do if you just go by the stats of the animal and add them to hte base creatures stats. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 10:17:16
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackDragonKarameikos
well the reason I suggested Arsenic is beacuse it is lethal to humans so it would be the same to rabbits. One of the suggetions in the Van Richten's guide was a weakness of Ginseng for Weretigers, which is why I mentioned the Arsenic.
Making them vulnerable to arsenic would be a bit like saying beheading would kill them If I were to use a poison I would suggest Belladona in any form. A plant seems natural, its generally poisonous and most players wouldn't think of it. And as it is in use in ancient and medieval times for various reasons, it would be available. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36794 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 00:35:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ah, the traditional approach. I like it. Hey, BlackDrag- could you post up those werecheetah stats? I'd like to check that one out myself- got some nice areas they would be perfect in.
You could always check out the werecritters presented in Volume 1 of the Realms Bestiary by Eric L. Boyd and Thomas M. Costa. There's some really good stuff in those pdfs. 
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31722 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 00:47:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ah, the traditional approach. I like it. Hey, BlackDrag- could you post up those werecheetah stats? I'd like to check that one out myself- got some nice areas they would be perfect in.
You could always check out the werecritters presented in Volume 1 of the Realms Bestiary by Eric L. Boyd and Thomas M. Costa. There's some really good stuff in those pdfs.
I think there was a 3rd-party 3e source also, that offered a range of strange and curious werecritter types. I'll have to check up on the name of the book, though. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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BlackDragonKarameikos
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2010 : 10:33:00
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I'll try to post the stats for the werecheetha when I can Alystra. I have the information on a zip drive and am unable to access it ATM. I am usinng an older type computer as mine went screwy on me, and this one only has one USB port on it, so keep a lookout on this subject, I will post them when I can.
I actually worked out the stats for all 3 of its forms, human, animal, and Hybrid. It really wasn't that hard to do, once you read the template in the MM book. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Question concerning Lycanthropes and LA
