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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 18:02:58
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I've been loking over the information on the spellsinger PrC in Races of Faerun, all of its abilities and benefits after reading over Elfsong again. After seeing how it's presented, I honestly can't think of a reason why anyone would ever want to take levels in that class. The spellsong ability isn't that impressive to me, since it gives you the ability to cast an enchantment spell, but the DC is the Cha modifier + the enchantment's level + 2.
Am I missing the real benefits behind this prestige class, or is it just one that's honestly not all that great? Also, is it a PrC that sees a lot of use in its benefits in a campaign, or are they seldom used? Thank you for your help. 
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Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Ghost King
Learned Scribe
USA
253 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2009 : 21:02:14
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Well as I read it, Penknight, you sacrifice a higher level spell slot to make a lower level enchantment more powerful then it normally would in a DC save. To me, it isn't that great either, but most bard prestige classes didn't get interesting or even close to balanced until later on down the line. Also remember Races of Faerun is a 3.0 not 3.5 supplement. The 3.0 version of prestige classes were either highly over-powered or highly under-powered with only a handful actually a near perfect balance of benefit/reward with sacrifice. This is well known for the bard prestige classes, for let us face the truth here, isn't the most popular class in any edition to play. This isn't to say it isn't a great class, which it can be just that not many prestige classes truly captured and worked with the bard's abilities.
All in all, I think it isn't completely broke. It does allow you to spontaneously cast an enchantment spell with just a verbal and somatic component of any enchantment spell with the usual restrictions that an xp component still must be paid, but all others can be ignored. However, if I were going to put it into a campaign I was running I'd tweak it some to give it more worth then it really has currently. I won't say what I would change though until I had enough time to review it thoroughly.
But it has been my experience that unless you are playing an urban campaign or one that deals with a lot of roleplaying interaction between humaniods bards just don't really have much of a place in the party no matter what prestige class they bring to the table except for perhaps the Harper one. It is designed for that class in mind, but again it is designed with the intent that the Harper does actually interact with someone at some time to really get the full benefits. If you're campaign is just about going into dungeons, slaying monsters, and getting into fights then whoever is playing the bard is just really there for obscure lore that the wizard misses or fill in whatever is lacking in a supporting role.
Anyways, that is my few thoughts on the subject. Probably not very helpful with your inquiries, but best I can say based on my opinion of the PrC in question. Though I will note that until Pathfinder I never was a big fan of the class as well as the sorcerer. So keep that in mind when you read my advice. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 00:32:07
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I agree. Spellsinger isn't exactly a BAD PrC, since you don't really lose anything (your bardic spells and music continue at the same pace), and if you work it right you probably don't even get a hit to saves or BAB. But then again, it doesn't really offer anything, either. Bards already can cast any of their spells known whenever they want, and the DC boost really isn't that interesting.
The only way the enchantment thing becomes interesting is if you've got lots of wizard levels in there... but you need one level of bard/sorc to enter. Which leaves us with Wiz 4/Sorc 1, hardly the most inspiring of starts, and you'd need the Apprentice feat from DMG2 to get the Perform requirement.
But if we're going to do that, then let's go whole hog and pull Ultimate Magus in there. Wiz 4/Sorc 1/UM 10/SS 5 nets you spells known as a 16th level wizard, 11th level sorcerer, and enough enchantment spells to actually make use of the ability. (note: this can be bumped up to Wiz 18/Sorc 9 using a CO Practiced Spellcaster trick... talk to your DM) Make your Wiz into an enchanter specialist/focused specialist for extra goodness, though if you're doing that the extra +2 DC would be little more than gravy and you'd have more than enough enchantment spells to throw around.
You'd have to delay the spellsinger levels for a little while, due to needing to get all your feats in line, but it could eventually work like this:
human
Sorc 1: Apprentice (entertainer), any metamagic feat
Wiz 4: Practiced spellcaster
UM 4: Imp Counterspell, skill focus (perform)
SS 5
UM +6
Obviously, you could do this as an elf, but you wouldn't get into spellsinger until you were almost all the way through UM. But that's what you get when your PrC of choice has two useless feat prereqs.
Sorry for turning this into a mini version of WotC's CO boards, but the basic fact is that I agree with GK: spellsinger just isn't that good, and this is the only way I can think of making it somewhat effective. It's not awful, like I said, you don't really lose anything by switching over, but you're not going to be using what you get much. And those two feats required for entry are nasty. On the plus side, if you do the UM/SS thing, you really do fit the "I AM the Weave!" aspect of the class. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 02:52:50
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| In case you're interested, here's a link to the WotC thread that I'm drawing Ultimate Magus info from: Link |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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3.xE Spellsinger PrC
