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Hello again, all.
Markustay, what SORT (wink, giggle) of comment were you looking for, re. “Raw Ed”? After all these years, I can make SO many . . .
And yes, Ed did create archliches for LOST SHIPS (after obtaining design approval from the TSR designers of the day to include a “good lich” in the game, to support some good or at least benign to PCs liches that had appeared in fiction and game products).
As for this comment, from Wooly Rupert: “I've always thought the deliberate embrace of undeath was a bit of an odd option for cheating death. One idea I've always preferred was for a mage to transfer his consciousness into a specially-prepared automaton. The end result (no longer worrying about death, aging, and other physical frailities) is the same, plus the automaton body would be more durable, nicer to look at, and wouldn't be physically rotting away. I know if I wanted to last a few more centuries, I'd choose an option where my fingers falling off wouldn't be a concern...”
. . . Ed has a response, as follows:

I see nothing at all wrong with your reasoning, Wooly, and although Newt Ewell specifically asked me to add a brief “drow biomech” section to the original (2nd Ed) DROW OF THE UNDERDARK, the “official but secret” design directives of the time were to avoid all “android and robot” flavouring in AD&D® because TSR was planning a robot roleplaying game, PROTON FIRE. Longtime DRAGON® readers may recall that it was featured in the back pages of just one issue of the magazine, as a preview; the game was “killed” on the very brink of its release by TSR’s upper management. So, just like de-emphasizing psionics in the Realms because they were to be a cornerstone of Dark Sun®, we were told to avoid mechanical/robotic/android/bionic elements for the AD&D® game. THAT’S why the embrace of undeath rather than the “build your own new body.”
As for the alternative “clone or birth your own new body and then move into it” approach, THAT ran afoul of the internal Code of Ethics, TSR wanting to avoid further trouble with the religious Moral Majority stances of the day. For years - - as various Realms NPCs have aged - - I have flirted and toyed in my Realms fiction with exploring the ethical choices they make about how to prolong life (for those who wish to do so). I plan, editors willing, to do more of that in future fiction.

So saith Ed. Illuminating the design backrooms of the Realms and D&D® for us all.
love,
THO

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As for the alternative “clone or birth your own new body and then move into it” approach, THAT ran afoul of the internal Code of Ethics, TSR wanting to avoid further trouble with the religious Moral Majority stances of the day. For years - - as various Realms NPCs have aged - - I have flirted and toyed in my Realms fiction with exploring the ethical choices they make about how to prolong life (for those who wish to do so). I plan, editors willing, to do more of that in future fiction.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Lichdom and longevity potions are the normal ways of doing it, though we have had some odd cases where other forms of immortality came along. Ed once commented on this, explaining a bit of the official reasoning for why the undead approach seemed to be favored:

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Hello again, all.
Markustay, what SORT (wink, giggle) of comment were you looking for, re. “Raw Ed”? After all these years, I can make SO many . . .
And yes, Ed did create archliches for LOST SHIPS (after obtaining design approval from the TSR designers of the day to include a “good lich” in the game, to support some good or at least benign to PCs liches that had appeared in fiction and game products).
As for this comment, from Wooly Rupert: “I've always thought the deliberate embrace of undeath was a bit of an odd option for cheating death. One idea I've always preferred was for a mage to transfer his consciousness into a specially-prepared automaton. The end result (no longer worrying about death, aging, and other physical frailities) is the same, plus the automaton body would be more durable, nicer to look at, and wouldn't be physically rotting away. I know if I wanted to last a few more centuries, I'd choose an option where my fingers falling off wouldn't be a concern...”
. . . Ed has a response, as follows:

I see nothing at all wrong with your reasoning, Wooly, and although Newt Ewell specifically asked me to add a brief “drow biomech” section to the original (2nd Ed) DROW OF THE UNDERDARK, the “official but secret” design directives of the time were to avoid all “android and robot” flavouring in AD&D® because TSR was planning a robot roleplaying game, PROTON FIRE. Longtime DRAGON® readers may recall that it was featured in the back pages of just one issue of the magazine, as a preview; the game was “killed” on the very brink of its release by TSR’s upper management. So, just like de-emphasizing psionics in the Realms because they were to be a cornerstone of Dark Sun®, we were told to avoid mechanical/robotic/android/bionic elements for the AD&D® game. THAT’S why the embrace of undeath rather than the “build your own new body.”
As for the alternative “clone or birth your own new body and then move into it” approach, THAT ran afoul of the internal Code of Ethics, TSR wanting to avoid further trouble with the religious Moral Majority stances of the day. For years - - as various Realms NPCs have aged - - I have flirted and toyed in my Realms fiction with exploring the ethical choices they make about how to prolong life (for those who wish to do so). I plan, editors willing, to do more of that in future fiction.

So saith Ed. Illuminating the design backrooms of the Realms and D&D® for us all.
love,
THO

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Lichdom and longevity potions are the normal ways of doing it, though we have had some odd cases where other forms of immortality came along. Ed once commented on this, explaining a bit of the official reasoning for why the undead approach seemed to be favored:

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Originally posted by Wrigley

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Lichdom and longevity potions are the normal ways of doing it, though we have had some odd cases where other forms of immortality came along. Ed once commented on this, explaining a bit of the official reasoning for why the undead approach seemed to be favored:

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Well, thanks for that. It bringed lots of light to this topic. And because I have none such a directive, I am open to suggestions of any type

Actualy I quite like the idea of immortal soul construct - some remnant of Immaskari or Raumathari artificer...

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Originally posted by Wrigley

One uncommon way I found in some sourcebook about Myth Drannor, where is one ancient elf bound to the floor of building.

Idea of moving soul from body to body is hard to categorize for me, because in a way it´s extending one´s life (first category) but in totaly different manner than usual. With changing body, soul remain the same which lead to question: is soul itself immortal (dying from old age is only body death)?
If yes, then posibly all that is needed is perfect regeneration of one´s body to live forever in one.
If no, then what and when happens to one´s soul moving on for centuries (is this cause of all this madness of immortals)?

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I've actually got an article written that discusses that exact idea. I've got plans for two others, going in different directions with each one. I originally intended the articles to just be for us here at Candlekeep, but it's since been suggested that I submit it to Dragon.

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Well, absent some method of sticking around, in the Realms a soul leaves the dead body behind and eventually winds up in the divine realm of whatever deity the person most favored in life. Most of these souls become petitioners, with their ultimate goal being merging with their deity. There's no real timeframe on how long this takes... So essentially, in D&D, the soul is in fact immortal. And thus, if a person had perfect regeneration or some other method of halting the aging process, then they are set for getting thru eternity.

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Originally posted by Wrigley

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I've actually got an article written that discusses that exact idea. I've got plans for two others, going in different directions with each one. I originally intended the articles to just be for us here at Candlekeep, but it's since been suggested that I submit it to Dragon.

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Where can I find it?

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
On my second hard drive.

Seriously, I'm still sitting on it, for a couple of reasons. One is that I want it to be the first in a three-part series, and the other two parts aren't complete, yet.

The other reason is that I'm not 100% sure where I want to share it.

Part of me wants to put it somewhere here, rather it's for the Compendium (assuming we ever get clear enough info from WotC to know whether or not we can continue it) or just a shared file on the main site. But... I sent the article to several people to review, and the only one that did has a number of Dragon articles to his name. And he said it would be great for "Dragon" (quotation marks because I don't really think the current version is as good as the print version). I like the idea of getting official recognition, but I don't like the idea of my stuff only being available in the DDI -- I don't support the DDI, and I know a lot of other folks don't. So if I went that route, I'd get the official recognition, but the price would be supporting something I don't believe in, and not sharing the info as widely as I'd prefer.

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Originally posted by Gyor

There is always the reincarnate spell.

Becoming a Shade stops the aging process.

certain subclasses in 5e slow or stop the aging process.

The new Undying Patron (not to be confused with the Undying Light Patron), grants healing on a successful death saving throw, the ability to reach limbs, to go forever without food, water, air, or sleep without ill effect, and to live 10 times longer. For an elf or Dwarf that's practical forever.

The Oath of the Ancients at level 15 you basically become immortal, aging doesn't effect you anymore, and once a day if something kills you, you don't die.

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Originally posted by JohnLynch

Is there any canon description as to how these characters have survived so long? Or is it just hand waved?

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Originally posted by Eilserus

TSR 9240 REF5 - Lords of Darkness has some good info on the lich process, potions to extend life and grant immortality etc if I recall. It's a great old school book.

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Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_

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Originally posted by JohnLynch

Is there any canon description as to how these characters have survived so long? Or is it just hand waved?

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Ioulaum for example had developed a spell Ioulaum's longevity which killed all living beings nearby and added their lifespawn to that of the caster. So he just had to cast it in the middle of some people from time to time to prolong his life.

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Originally posted by JohnLynch

Is there any canon description as to how these characters have survived so long? Or is it just hand waved?

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Originally posted by Lilianviaten

Of course, gaining Chosen status is often an instant road to immortality too. Although if you sign up with some deranged god like Lolth, Cyric, or Shar, it may not be the kind of glorious immortality that Elminster or the Seven Sisters have enjoyed.

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