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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Nov 2009 : 18:36:17
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Yea, I think they were Denning's. A human desert-culture can work fine in the area, but tying it to closely with Bedouin culture was a mistake. warlike nomads that are the descendants of earlier human cultures I have no problem with. As were the Celts and (so-called) Norse culture in the Moonshae.
Did the first clear ties between the Bedine and Zakhara come with the 2ed. campaign box? |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2009 : 21:42:59
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I don't have the books right now. Languages of the Realms article from the Dragon Annual, think 1999, says that the language of the Bedine is Ulutiun (sp?). Almost sure that 3e FRCS or Races of Faerun introduced Midani.
Edit: 2e Campaign box only ties Zakharan influences with the Empires of the Sands, not Anauroch. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2009 : 07:15:07
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I skimmed through the 2ed. campaign book last night. Midani is mentioned there as the language of Zakhara (under languages of the Realms), but nothing that ties the Bediine with Zakhara.
It would probably be a better idea for the Bedine to be descendants of Shoon auxiliary from the south that were cut of from their army, mixed with descendants of Netheril, but that's just my opinion. That would have given a link to the "Middle-Eastern" cultures whilst still keeping it somewhat logical. The Zakharan background always seemed like a somewhat forced attempt to tie the two settings together.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2009 : 15:57:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I skimmed through the 2ed. campaign book last night. Midani is mentioned there as the language of Zakhara (under languages of the Realms), but nothing that ties the Bediine with Zakhara.
It would probably be a better idea for the Bedine to be descendants of Shoon auxiliary from the south that were cut of from their army, mixed with descendants of Netheril, but that's just my opinion. That would have given a link to the "Middle-Eastern" cultures whilst still keeping it somewhat logical. The Zakharan background always seemed like a somewhat forced attempt to tie the two settings together.
I've been reading thru the Zakhara stuff, of late, alternating it with Planescape stuff. I seem to recall a line or two in there connecting the Bedine and Zakharan peoples, but it's not something they really expand on. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2009 : 16:26:59
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Aye. Wooly has the right of it. I seem to recall something to that effect referenced in one of the Al-Qadim products [though, I can't remember which at the moment].
Also, I just remembered this little tidbit from the Lady Hooded One from back in August last year:-
quote:
If I recall correctly, Jeff Grubb went through Ed's ANAUROCH FR accessory and talked with Ed about which spells and Bedine elements could readily be used in the new "Arabian Adventures" setting (Al-Qadim), and (as Sage mentions) the link was then 'reverse-engineered' to loosely link Zakhara to Faerun (rather more adroitly than some of the other "chunks of real-world or Hollywood version thereof" elements were tied to Ed's root Realms).
love to all,
THO
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 04:02:44
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I don't remember where but I read somewhere that the Bedine travelled through portals to Anauroch from Zakhara. 500,000 people being descended from people who came through a portal seems very far fetched to me though! I agree that it would make more sense for them to be locally grown. They worship Faerunian deities, for example, and so forth.
Also earlier someone said he thought the effects of being in the Gates of the Moon made the residents of Opus become Aasimar. But I got access to "Waterdeep" and an NDP is from Selunnara! A gryphon riding Paladin/Sorceror. It says explicitly in his description the Selunnarans became aasimar by interbreeding with native residents of the Gates of the Moon. He has silver streaked hair, etc.
I don't know if I think aasimar descended from Lillendi, Shards, or other chaotic outsiders should have their favoured class be PALADIN though. It seems as though Selunnaran aasimar should have an alternate favored class (or a choice of several...such as Cleric, bard, or sorceror. I'd lean towards Cleric...) What do other people think |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 07:04:51
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Thanks. I seem to remember there being a mention of language ties between the the bedine and the people of Zakhara, but for the life of me I cant remmember where. It must have been in a 2ed. product and I thought it was a Forgotten Realms product, but now it seems like I have to read through my Al Quadim books.
The tie with the bedine is one of the worst choices they could have made in my opinion. Culturally and( to a degree)logically, the lands around Calimshan would be a better choice, if an area closer to the Heartlands was needed. It is a bit strange really, that they didn't tie Zakhara closer to the lands of the Shining South, there are great possibilities for intrigue and plots in the contact between the continents in this area- Especially with Kara-Tur so close by.
P.S. Just out of curiosity Wooly, what do you think of the Al Quadim products when reading them now? |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 09:25:45
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
*snip*
I don't know if I think aasimar descended from Lillendi, Shards, or other chaotic outsiders should have their favoured class be PALADIN though. It seems as though Selunnaran aasimar should have an alternate favored class (or a choice of several...such as Cleric, bard, or sorceror. I'd lean towards Cleric...) What do other people think
Depends how liberal you want to be with alignment restrictions (or which edition you're using). Aside from that, I reckon sorceror might be a good one, seeing as they were a magically encline people prior to decamping to Gates of the Moon and getting it on with a bunch of magically enclined Outsiders. Dunno how Netherese a shift from magic of the book to magic of the blood is, but they have been out there for quite some time.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 14:15:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Thanks. I seem to remember there being a mention of language ties between the the bedine and the people of Zakhara, but for the life of me I cant remmember where. It must have been in a 2ed. product and I thought it was a Forgotten Realms product, but now it seems like I have to read through my Al Quadim books.
The tie with the bedine is one of the worst choices they could have made in my opinion. Culturally and( to a degree)logically, the lands around Calimshan would be a better choice, if an area closer to the Heartlands was needed. It is a bit strange really, that they didn't tie Zakhara closer to the lands of the Shining South, there are great possibilities for intrigue and plots in the contact between the continents in this area- Especially with Kara-Tur so close by.
I dunno, I think it works. Both areas are basically culturally isolated from others, which helps keep a degree of uniqueness going on.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
P.S. Just out of curiosity Wooly, what do you think of the Al Quadim products when reading them now?
I'm enjoying them, though I think I'm enjoying reading the Planescape stuff more. I didn't have a lot of either before the fire, but in the process of replacing FR stuff, I managed to get all the sourcebooks, modules, and boxed sets for both Al-Qadim and Planescape. So now I'm reading thru it -- though both have been set aside for the moment, as I read the new Golarian stuff that recently arrived.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 14:36:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dunno, I think it works. Both areas are basically culturally isolated from others, which helps keep a degree of uniqueness going on.
Tom Costa worked out a possible explanation for it here at Candlekeep a few years back. I'll search the archives for it. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 15:09:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Thanks. I seem to remember there being a mention of language ties between the the bedine and the people of Zakhara, but for the life of me I cant remmember where. It must have been in a 2ed. product and I thought it was a Forgotten Realms product, but now it seems like I have to read through my Al Quadim books.
Canonically, the Bedine are Zakharans transplanted by means of gates. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 17:06:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Thanks. I seem to remember there being a mention of language ties between the the bedine and the people of Zakhara, but for the life of me I cant remmember where. It must have been in a 2ed. product and I thought it was a Forgotten Realms product, but now it seems like I have to read through my Al Quadim books.
Canonically, the Bedine are Zakharans transplanted by means of gates.
I know that, but I am curious as to which Realms source book first mentioned this. I feel I have seen it in some 2ed. book (and not Al Quadim), but I cant remmember which. I am still searching though. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 17:15:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Thanks. I seem to remember there being a mention of language ties between the the bedine and the people of Zakhara, but for the life of me I cant remmember where. It must have been in a 2ed. product and I thought it was a Forgotten Realms product, but now it seems like I have to read through my Al Quadim books.
The tie with the bedine is one of the worst choices they could have made in my opinion. Culturally and( to a degree)logically, the lands around Calimshan would be a better choice, if an area closer to the Heartlands was needed. It is a bit strange really, that they didn't tie Zakhara closer to the lands of the Shining South, there are great possibilities for intrigue and plots in the contact between the continents in this area- Especially with Kara-Tur so close by.
I dunno, I think it works. Both areas are basically culturally isolated from others, which helps keep a degree of uniqueness going on.
It works, but I think it is a bit of a missed opportunity, with all the similar areas (I would put parts of the Hordelands with Semphar for example in the same group)bearing cultural likenesses, more could have been made out of it. Especially with the Calishites and Amnites not all that far away. But again, its not all that important in the long run and, as you say, it works.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
P.S. Just out of curiosity Wooly, what do you think of the Al Quadim products when reading them now?
I'm enjoying them, though I think I'm enjoying reading the Planescape stuff more. I didn't have a lot of either before the fire, but in the process of replacing FR stuff, I managed to get all the sourcebooks, modules, and boxed sets for both Al-Qadim and Planescape. So now I'm reading thru it -- though both have been set aside for the moment, as I read the new Golarian stuff that recently arrived.
Thanks. I still feel that the Al-Qadim line was among TSR's strongest with no bad product that I can think of. In many ways the setting was handled in the way I wished the Realms had been from the start.
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Undeveloped areas
