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jcdf
Acolyte
38 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Oct 2009 : 13:59:22
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What in your opinion is the Best and Worst Forgotten realms novels ever written?
Mod edit: thread title changed. 
Mod Edit II: Shifted to a more appropriate shelf.
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Edited by - The Sage on 13 Oct 2009 00:25:55
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2009 : 15:34:23
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"Best" is hard to define. There's a lot of well-written books in the FR bibliography, and which ones you prefer are in many cases dependent on how you like the authors' styles. Pretty much anything Elaine writes is very well-written, but people are more hit-or-miss with Ed and RAS. IMO, the best of the three are the Wizardwar trilogy, Shadows of the Avatar trilogy, and Siege of Darkness, respectively. Those are the ones I keep coming back to most often, at any rate.
"Worst" is, unfortunately, a lot easier. There have been a couple of real stinkers, including one stinker series (the Nobles, with the exception of The Simbul's Gift). Off the top of my head, the worst FR books are: The Summoning, Council of Blades, Obsidian Ridge, and the entire Avatar Trilogy, including its two add-ons Trial of Cyric and whatever that other one was. Honorable mention goes to the Netheril trilogy, which was pretty bad, but it's been over a decade since I read it, so time has washed away enough of the pain that I'm not entirely certain it fits this list.
If you're really curious I can give some explanations on why I think the above fit where they do, but that's where I'd start the list. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Neil Bishop
Learned Scribe
Singapore
100 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2009 : 15:38:01
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This is really tough.
Best: I can't narrow it down. I think a lot of the recent authors, especially Rich Baker and Paul Kemp, are just damn good authors so their stuff is worth mentioning for the sheer quality (ditto for so many of new writers). But I think I would have to go with Spellfire and Crystal Shard simply for bringing the Realms to life for the first time for me and challenging me to improve the way I DM. I would also throw in Cormyr as an honourable mention.
Worst: I want to stay away from this because I do prefer to stay positive. |
Regards
NXB |
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jcdf
Acolyte
38 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2009 : 16:32:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Neil Bishop
This is really tough.
Best: I can't narrow it down. I think a lot of the recent authors, especially Rich Baker and Paul Kemp, are just damn good authors so their stuff is worth mentioning for the sheer quality (ditto for so many of new writers). But I think I would have to go with Spellfire and Crystal Shard simply for bringing the Realms to life for the first time for me and challenging me to improve the way I DM. I would also throw in Cormyr as an honourable mention.
Worst: I want to stay away from this because I do prefer to stay positive.
The Crystal Shard was very good and would near the top of my list.
The Master of Chains was the worst I ever read. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2009 : 16:49:38
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While I can admit that some were not as good as expected, all realms books have something to offer lore-wise to this realms fan
My first realms novel was Spellfire and will probably always remain my favorite, as it opened my eyes to the realms and this great hobby. As far as best, that is too subjective and you will find many differing opinions here.
I would have to go by my favorite realms Authors. Greenwood,Kemp, Byers,Cunningham, Baker, Salvatore, Schend. Just to name a few. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2009 : 17:55:31
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| I would caution people to take care with what they say... Some authors do frequent these boards, and I know that I for one would not be happy to see one of my books labeled as the worst Realms novel. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2009 : 18:12:05
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| I normally love Paul Kidd's work, but I will say that his Council of Blades seemed to have the least to do with the actual Realms of any FR novel. Though he himself told me that he utterly despised the Realms as 'generic fantasy crap'. |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2009 : 18:41:04
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| Best: Kemp for inspiration, originality and for pushing the Realms to darker places then they've ever been before. And RAS for gettin me hooked. :) |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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jcdf
Acolyte
38 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2009 : 22:05:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I would caution people to take care with what they say... Some authors do frequent these boards, and I know that I for one would not be happy to see one of my books labeled as the worst Realms novel.
There is nothing wrong with the truth and constructive criticism. There are only opinions here anyway, there would be something wrong with any book if nobody said something critical about it. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2009 : 22:09:09
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| I have read far more good FR novels than bad, yet, if I had to pick out one which I wouldn't touch again, The Night Parade would be it. Many FR novels touch different topics and from different angles and all feature excellent, good, and average ones. in fact, far too many than to pick out one specific author. IMHO, if you want to read good fantasy, a FR novel will not dissappoint you. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gćđ a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerűn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 00:39:36
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quote:
Originally posted by jcdf
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I would caution people to take care with what they say... Some authors do frequent these boards, and I know that I for one would not be happy to see one of my books labeled as the worst Realms novel.
There is nothing wrong with the truth and constructive criticism. There are only opinions here anyway, there would be something wrong with any book if nobody said something critical about it.
There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism. Unfortunately, each scribe interprets that particular aspect of criticism somewhat differently. So, if any scribe is unsure about what they can post, feel free to contact me via PM with your post, and we'll discuss it first.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 03:42:40
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I always thought this kind of scroll would be shutdown immediately.
Listing the best, fine... worst... not good. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 06:11:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
I always thought this kind of scroll would be shutdown immediately.
I was tempted, honestly, but I'm giving it a chance. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 07:47:39
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Favorite, Evermeet, the Finder's Stone trilogy, Star of Cursrah, Sentinelspire, Crucible ...
least favorite Mage in the Iron Mask, Baldur's Gate |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 08:27:01
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Hmm, this is definitely a tricky question. For my money, Homeland is probably the best Realms book out there -- great characters, great plot, and one of the most intriguing settings in any fantasy novel. Oh, and that Drizzit guy.
As for the worst... well, I won't go there. However, I will say that the novel I enjoyed reading the least was probably Spellfire, though I've loved everything else of Ed's that I've read. Spellfire just seemed to stand still way too much -- after the initial meeting with the Knights and killing the two dracoliches, not enough seems to happen. Many times it seems as though Zhentil Keep might do something exciting, but each time they don't, and in the end of the novel, the final confrontation lasts maybe two pages. However, Shandril returning to the inn in Highmoon was a great scene.
Of course, all of that is just my opinion. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 09:17:35
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My favorite Forgotten Realms novel is Evermeet: Island of the Elves by Elaine Cunningham. Actually, any Realms book that she's written is my favorite. She's incredibly talented and creates amazing characters. 
My least favorite is pretty easy to pin down, too. I'm not a fan of Richard Baker's Last Mythal series at all. I'll respectfully leave it at that. |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Amarel Derakanor
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 09:34:43
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| While I haven't read enough Realms-novels to compete with the most of ye, I did enjoy Cormyr: A Novel by Ed, and didn't care for the Baldur's Gate novels (by Philip Athans) all that much (Just the two first ones, since I didn't read the last one). |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 14:26:11
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| People might flog me (due to the novel actually getting a lot of bad reviews) but I actually enjoyed Bruce Cordell's "Lady of Poison". Don't ask me why, but it was a very enjoyable book for me. As this thread is of personal choice, I wanted to give it an honorable mention. Others include Homeland, Cormyr, and Shadowdale. |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
757 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 15:27:25
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For me it's a difficult choice as to the 'best'. The most fun to read though has to be Crypt of the Moaning Diamond by Rosemary Jones*. There have been far too many good ones though for me to mention all of them**.
Which brings me to the 'worst'. Some have been badly written, some badly edited and some just badly printed, but I have only ever not finished one: Obsidian Ridge by Jess Lebow.
And in the category of 'worst book that turned out okay', I have to second Matt's vote for Lady of Poison. I ended up actually anjoying that one.
All in my most humble opinion of course.
* I have not read any post-Spellplague novels, so don't know if she topped herself with City of the Dead.
** My collection only officially starts in 2003 (by publishing date) with the Rogues series, although does include some older novels/anthologies like the Sembia series (due to the recent reprint), and Servant of the Shard (also the reprinted version as part of the Sellswords series). I may therefore not have read the ‘best’ due to not owning it. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Broken Helm
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 15:51:30
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Hmm. I'm going to avoid "worst" because I divide them into worst-written (a few candidates fiercely vying for "top" honors there) and least-Realmslike, which with a few exceptions garner a DIFFERENT field of "top" candidates. So, better to avoid.
As for best . . . FOUR replies for three different sorts of books: CITY OF SPLENDORS and CORMYR: A NOVEL, tied, for "big broad scope" epics, ELMINSTER IN HELL for what I'm going to call fantasy literature, and SWORDS OF EVENINGSTAR for just a fun AND well-done and Realmslore-rich story.
P.S. If I have to leave Ed Greenwood books right out of it, it's HOMELAND tied with DOWNSHADOW and CITY OF THE DEAD. Again, three VERY different books, hence no clear winner. Pointing again at the subjective nature of such polls . . . |
Edited by - Broken Helm on 12 Oct 2009 15:53:11 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 17:27:34
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Best: "City of Ravens"
Worst: “The Greatest Hero Who Ever Died” novella from Realms of Infamy, although referencing Sossal it uses non-Realms cities and sites (actual real life places in England) |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 17:40:01
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| best-siege of darkness worst-the veiled dragon. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 17:55:54
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Can I respectfully request that the title of the thread be changed to 'favorite and least favorite' or somesuch: All the above posts have been respectful, but I agree with the Hamster-in-Chief that I'd hate to see anything I've written be labeled 'the worst'.
For my $.02, my favorite has changed over time: It used to be Evermeet (which I still think the world of) but is currently Elmister in Hell. Least favorite is probably Spellfire: Not because it's a bad book (it's not), but because it was a bit too schizophrenic for my taste (Which Ed attributes, IIRC, to being asked to 'Showcase as much of the Realms as possible'). Then again, I'd just about kill to see the book Ed might have written left to his own devices. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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jcdf
Acolyte
38 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 21:56:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
Can I respectfully request that the title of the thread be changed to 'favorite and least favorite' or somesuch: All the above posts have been respectful, but I agree with the Hamster-in-Chief that I'd hate to see anything I've written be labeled 'the worst'.
For my $.02, my favorite has changed over time: It used to be Evermeet (which I still think the world of) but is currently Elmister in Hell. Least favorite is probably Spellfire: Not because it's a bad book (it's not), but because it was a bit too schizophrenic for my taste (Which Ed attributes, IIRC, to being asked to 'Showcase as much of the Realms as possible'). Then again, I'd just about kill to see the book Ed might have written left to his own devices.
Yes the title should be changed. This thread is based on opinion not fact so absolutes like best and worst are not applicable. I do not know how to do this, can you change the thread title to Knight of the Gate's suggestion moderator, please.
I have never read Spellfire. What specifically about it that you find "too schizophrenic" Knight of the Gate? |
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IronAngel
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2009 : 22:18:49
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"Best" and "worst" is always subjective. No need to be so timid, IMO. I am certain professional authors understand that, and don't take any undue offence. There's a fine line between freedom of speech and common decency, but we're nowhere near that line.
I have a bunch of favorites, really. If I had to pick three, it would be Elaine's Elfshadow, Ed&Elaine's The City of Splendors (it was very low-key, which I liked) and Steven Schend's Blackstaff. All of Elaine's work, and Cormyr, are also close runner-ups.
I didn't particularly enjoy Shadowdale. In fact, I found the writing style so awkward that I didn't buy the rest of the series. The subject matter wasn't to my tastes, either. The narrative wasn't particularly lively. |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2009 : 02:50:57
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I honestly can´t answer this question, having thought about it for several hours...it would be near impossible for me to even narrow down a list of ten as regards to my favourite FR novel. And I also find it very difficult to compare between novels so utterly different from one another like, say, Grubb/Novak to Kemp or Byers to Greenwood. While they all of those I like share a Realmsian feel among them (at least to me), they are so drastically different in theme and atmosphere that I´d feel like comparing different sub-genres of fantasy with each other (which is actually one of the reasons FR novels have always fascinated me so much). And that doesn´t even touch upon sentimental reasons (I´ll always love the Avatar novels, even though they leave me screaming with rage at some points, or the first Moonshae trilogy, because they were the first FR novels I read) or the "test of time", meaning for example that I believe "City of the Dead" to have enormous re-reading potential, but how am I supposed to compare it to novels I´ve read four or five times and enjoyed immensely on every re-read. I just couldn´t tell. Even from a pure point of enjoyment of literary talent and use of language I find myself hard pressed to compare the style of Ed Greenwood (a perma-romp of chaos, laced with snippets of hints and suggestions throwing a hundred questions upon the reader, while answering one and dripping with Realms flavour) with the fascinating descriptive power of Richard Lee Byers in the Thay trilogy or Elaine´s perfect character work.
Hmm...didn´t mean to go so far off topic, I apologize. So in summary, there are too many I love and they´re too diverse for me to make a choice. |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2009 : 03:45:37
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I can't really narrow it down to any one novel, myself, either. If it was written by Novak and Grubb or by Elaine, it's one of my favorites.
It's hard to put any one author in my least favorite category... Troy Denning, for example, wrote some of the Realms novels I most dislike -- but he also wrote some that I really enjoyed. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2009 : 03:56:22
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Like Wooly, I'm having trouble narrowing down a particular favourite. Certainly, any of the Ed, Elaine, or Steven novels are usually among those I've favoured the most over the last 20+ years of published Realms novels. Special mentions for Swords of Eveningstar, Elfsong, and Blackstaff.
In terms of least favourite, unfortunately, I'd have to say most of the later RAS novels. I've grown particularly tired of Drizzt and his exploits. The initial books were fun and offered the reader an opportunity for exploring areas and racial perspectives not otherwise readily available elsewhere in the Realmslore. But I feel, at least now anyways, that it's time for something new. Admittedly, I haven't bothered with RAS's latest -- "The Transitions" -- so I'm not entirely sure whether his work has changed somewhat. Maybe it's time to find out.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2009 : 08:05:22
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As others have said this is a difficult one.
Night Parade, Spellfire and Darkwalker would be my first choices.
The most of the late era TSR novels and the WotC novels have left me a bit empty. Council of Blades and Once around the Realms are probably the ones that stand out, but I am unsure if those even count. But I don't want to single out authors, so I will let it lie. |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2009 : 12:06:16
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Let me start with the negatives and offer The Jewel of Turmish as the "least good" but still humorously enjoyable FR book. I think the author had a secret loathing for druids so came up with the most absurd threat he could imagine. When it is revealed what the big bad guy is trying to unleash on the world, I actually laughed out loud. Not that, anything but that!!! Think of the flowers!!!
One more on the negative. I know she is quite popular but I really disliked the Daughter of the Drow books. The two headed dragon, I guess the silliness in general, just got to me. There were serious things happening but I just couldn't take them seriously.
On the positive side, I really enjoyed the first of the WotSQ books. The build up was better than the reveal and I thought that book did an excellent job.
I also agree with Sage that the early Drizzt books were really fun. Siege of Darkness stands out in my mind. I really like Lockwood's "new" art for the covers.
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Favorite and Least Favorite Realms novels
