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BlackDragonKarameikos
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 23:04:47
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Ok masters of Candlekeep, I need some help.
I'm working up a BBEG for a campaign that I'm running right now. The thing is I need some input on some items that are not listed for this particular character.
Right now the group is around level 3, but I want to work on getting him done now so that when they do have to go up aginst him, that I don't have to rush to put him together and possibly forget something.
The character is actually going to be the King of the Balors and I was thinking of giving him class levels, possibly Fighter/Wizard.
Since this is going to probably go into Epic levels (possibly 30+) I have already decided to make him around level 60 (there are gong to be about 5-6 group members, so I think that although they will have a problem with him, there is a chance for them to defeat him.)
This is a little harder for me as it only shows in the M M that advancement is by HIt Dice, but you would think that either Tanar'ri or Battezu (at least certain ones) would be able to learn certian classes (e.g. Fighter, Wizard, Warlock, Sorcerer, etc.)
Can you guys help me out?
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2009 : 21:18:49
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Couple of things...
1st- What edition are we talking about?
2nd- level 60 is extreme by any editions standards. If this is going into epic levels, I'd suggest a CR 30+ or level 30+ if we're using 4th.
3rd- It's a simple thing to add in class levels to a monster, but you have to let us know how many of which class. I'd opt for Wizard because a Balor is already pretty beefy without those fighter feats (or powers).
4th- Gear. A creature of this magnificance will probably be wielding some awesome stuff, so that'll needed to be thrown into his stats as well.
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Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
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BlackDragonKarameikos
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2009 : 22:39:22
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Hey Diffan
1.) I only play 3.5, 4Th Ed. just doesn't seem to be for me(but then that is my own opinion).
2.) Level 60 may seem extreme Diffan, but in the MM the Balor has the chance to adv ance his HD up to 60(which would make him huge sized), which is why I am going to go with him having 60 Levels.
3.) I may go with Ninja instead of Fighter and then Prestige class him into either an Assassin or a Ghost Faced Killer. So , that would be 20 Ninja, 10 Assassin or Ghost Faced Killer. and then either go Wizard or Warlock for the rest of the levels.
4.) as for gear, I usually wait until I have all of the stats and abilities done before working on those. |
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Hellkeepa
Seeker
Norway
61 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2009 : 04:48:26
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HELLo!
Just wanted to chime in on the whole 60-level vs 30+ party issue:
There is a reason, and a very good one at that, why the DMG doesn't list experience points for encounters with more than 8 CR of the characters level. As it says:
quote:
The table doesn't support XP for encounter eight or more Challenge Ratings higher than the character's level. If the party is taking on challenges that far above their level, something strange is going on, and the DM needs to think carefully about the awards rather than just taking them off a table. See Assigning Ad-Hoc XP awards, page 39.
Also keep in mind table 3-1 of the DMG as well, which states that sending 12 level 23 monsters would be an adequate challenge for a level 30 party. That's a max increase of 7 CR, before the creatures become too weak individually to pose a challenge as a group. Think very carefully what would happen with a group of adventurers, which are 25 to 30 levels less than the boss' CR...
Even if you have the possiblity, doesn't necessarily mean that you must, or even should, grasp it.
Happy codin'! |
Dealing with 3.5 only. Refusing the reality of 4.0, and substituting it for my own. |
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Randal_Dundragon
Seeker
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2009 : 12:32:35
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Question, whats the back story behind this guy? Might help flesh out his Class choices a little bit unless your just going for straight out onryness. if you are give me about a day i might have something interesting for you, thought ill need to open my books and blow off the dust (havent played for a couple months now, gods! has it been 6 months now...)
Anyway, let me know. |
Its simple really, Your an idiot and I'm simply a figment of your imagination |
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BlackDragonKarameikos
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2009 : 05:29:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellkeepa
HELLo!
Just wanted to chime in on the whole 60-level vs 30+ party issue:
There is a reason, and a very good one at that, why the DMG doesn't list experience points for encounters with more than 8 CR of the characters level. As it says:
quote:
The table doesn't support XP for encounter eight or more Challenge Ratings higher than the character's level. If the party is taking on challenges that far above their level, something strange is going on, and the DM needs to think carefully about the awards rather than just taking them off a table. See Assigning Ad-Hoc XP awards, page 39.
Also keep in mind table 3-1 of the DMG as well, which states that sending 12 level 23 monsters would be an adequate challenge for a level 30 party. That's a max increase of 7 CR, before the creatures become too weak individually to pose a challenge as a group. Think very carefully what would happen with a group of adventurers, which are 25 to 30 levels less than the boss' CR...
Even if you have the possiblity, doesn't necessarily mean that you must, or even should, grasp it.
Happy codin'!
Well Hellkeepa then you must not have the Epic Level Handbook. It gives Exp and CR's that goe up to 40. It also give information on how to go beyond 40 as well.
Besides, the group will be 5-6 members possibly all of which will be around level 30 or more, which means that there will be a total of 150 to 180 total character levels to this BBEG's level of 60. If anything, I should make him even higher in level, but with how I will play him, level 60 is going to be good for now. |
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BlackDragonKarameikos
Learned Scribe
USA
106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2009 : 05:43:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Randal_Dundragon
Question, whats the back story behind this guy? Might help flesh out his Class choices a little bit unless your just going for straight out onryness. if you are give me about a day i might have something interesting for you, thought ill need to open my books and blow off the dust (havent played for a couple months now, gods! has it been 6 months now...)
Anyway, let me know.
Well Randal, I haven't had time to come up with a full backstory yet for him, but I can tell you this about him.
Qwaden-ol-Borla is the king of the Balors. He is the most powerful balor and at one time was human. But that was a long time ago.
Depending on the classes that I give him they will also help me to create his backstory as well. Any input on what classes you might think would help, would be greatly appreciated.
Some of the classess I am thinking of are more than likely Barbarian or Fighter, as well as Wizard or more likely Warlock. |
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Hellkeepa
Seeker
Norway
61 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2009 : 18:54:58
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HELLo!
I recommend that you read my post again, as I wasn't talking about "max levels" or anything like that; I was talking about relative level differences. As for your comment about making him higher level, because of their total Would you really pit a level 50 monster against 5 level 10 PCs?
If you really want to send a level 60 monster at your party, they should be no less than level 57 to be able to survive.
Happy codin'! |
Dealing with 3.5 only. Refusing the reality of 4.0, and substituting it for my own. |
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Randal_Dundragon
Seeker
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2009 : 16:12:54
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Alright well id agree with Hellkeepa, be careful on how high you make the mob, though also keep in mind that classes that dont relate add only half a CR per.
Now as to classes, if you want to add something interesting try adding the knight class and possibly going with favored soul. Throw in some vile feats with a little bit of panache and some interesting lackies and you might have a fun encounter.
I would also think about throwing in a couple levels of blackguard, know its cleched but its still fun.
Actual numbers id say 10 knight/7 divine soul/4 blk grd (21 total level) more when i think of it |
Its simple really, Your an idiot and I'm simply a figment of your imagination |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2009 : 18:28:45
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackDragonKarameikos
Qwaden-ol-Borla is the king of the Balors. He is the most powerful balor and at one time was human. But that was a long time ago.
Actually in canon there is Kardum. Lord of Balors, think on the 21st layer.
I kinda forgot 3e rules and never played beyond the 21st lvl. hope this web search helps: http://www.enworld.org/forum/3917123-post10.html
alternatively I'd make him somewhat unusual, e.g, a pyrokinetic psychic warrior |
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Neil Bishop
Learned Scribe
Singapore
100 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2009 : 05:55:41
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The backstory is the critical issue here. On first take, I would think a combination of barbarian and marshal (Miniatures Handbook) would model the "chaotic leader" quite well; sorcerer and marshal might be another good combination.
Actually... I would go with the Book of Nine Swords and give him levels in any one or more of crusader, swordsage and/or warblade. At least that way you get a leader and also not a plain vanilla classed monster.
(And I know this is the wrong place to say this but this is where 4E is such a dream: punching out an advanced balor with appropriate powers would take about 15 minutes on the monster builder rather than the 3 or 4 hours statting him up in 3.5E will take. NB: I like both games.) |
Regards
NXB |
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Randal_Dundragon
Seeker
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2009 : 08:33:53
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| I hear you which is why i want to find a way to apply it to 3.5 |
Its simple really, Your an idiot and I'm simply a figment of your imagination |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2009 : 13:00:24
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First of all... CR 60. He would be able to take anything down. Forget 5-6 lvl 35 chars they wont be able to do anything to him... nothing at all I tell you. Trust me, I once ran a lvl 40 max power campaing and they would never be able to kill such a boss. And why do you worry about the boss when your party is only lvl 3-4??? How fast are you lvl'ing then???
Sorry if I seem harsh... but to me it sound like you have no idea what you are doing as a DM! Sorry!
But to answer you question. Just make him a wizard and create you own epic spells which so high SV that you one shot you PCs. That sounds like fun right? Happy hunting! |
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Need some help with a BBEG
