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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Aug 2003 : 20:18:57
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This site cracks me up! It is hillarious. I guess the anti D&D movement is still active with some sheep. This is a funny site!
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp
Hope you enjoy It!
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2003 : 22:31:27
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This site has tons of great stuff on it. I mean its great stuff because there are some brainwashed peopel in the world that ACTUALLY beleive it!
Look through the site. They are even against the catholic church. Oh to live in the world of sheep...
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Horgesh
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 00:48:40
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LMAO! Dude, that comic was spoofed by WhiteWolf at GenCon last year:
It convincingly was passed off as the real thing by a man dressed as a priest, but when a friend emailed the source to tell him what an idiotically ignorant piece of propaganda it was, a White Wolf rep replied, letting him know that it was actually a promo for their new title "Demon: The Fallen". WW's version had a few minor changes such as the players sacrificing a baby in the opening pannels, rather than just killing monsters. Great stuff, I'm going to see if I can find it online. |
Battle fever. I am half a man and drunk with slaughter, let them kill me if they can! -George R. R. Martin: A Clash of Kings |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 05:34:32
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I am a very bad person! I sent an email to the people listed on the site. OK I couldn't resist, I had to do it. I just HOPE they respond
Hello!
Thank you so much for posting the chick tracts. They certainly made a difference in my life!
Today I read Dark Dungeon, and Somebody Goofed! What GREAT tracts.
They are drawn descently and let me tell you I thought they were Hillarious!
I can't beleive that SOME people would read those and actually change their lives. They must be idiots to take those comics seriously, but they are certainly entertaining for people who understand what they really are, a humourous take on propaganda.
I read on your website about the people that had life changing moments due to the chick tracts. HAH HAH! DO these people have anything past a 5th grade education. They must be pretty dumb to let propaganda brainwash them so easily.
One of the most amusing things on the site was how this man CHICK who made these entertaining comics got the idea from the Chinese Communist spread of propaganda. I think it is excellent to compare the born again movement with communist propaganda as only weak minded individuals beleive the born again propaganda and mythology.
Well I can sure tell why people that read and beleive DARK DUNGEON won't play dungeons & dragons. They are far too stupid. A player of fantasy roleplaying games is far to intelligent to beleive any spiel spit out by a religious zealot. I am sure there were no D&D players at Jonestown. People with abstract thinking skills and Critical thinking skills will just never fall for the silliness of those comics. But I can tell you one thing, they sure will be entertained by it. One of the most entertaining things about it, as I said before is that some people actually change their lives over those silly comic strips. What Morons!!!
Well my friend keep spreading your faith through the comics as I love to read them and imagine how another bufoon is having a life change over a comic that makes no logical sense. Next you'll make a comic trying to turn teenagers from the study of evolution so that america can fall farther behind in the science world.
Good job guys! Just don't buy an island off of Guyana and start another Jonestown cult. I am sure the people of your faith are AT LEAST as smart as the people of Jonestown! Keep making those Comics Brother!!! Thanks for the entertainment!
Sincerely,
A fantasy Roleplayer, scientist, and critical thinker |
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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MuadDib
Senior Scribe
South Africa
442 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 06:10:28
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I am stunned, I am truly speechless....
I dont know whether to send them an email, or cy in a hole
All I know is, im ashamed to be numbered among them. Let me tell the members of the board this much, REAL Christians, are nothing like those fools. Being saved by Jesus does not happen when you sign a little permission slip at the bottom of their site, or do any number of other things you need to.
I also find it quite sad that they think the spells in D&D are true...it really is very sad that site, very very sad... |
MuadDib - Candlekeep Inn Barhand |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 07:05:09
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This site is indeed a very disappointing example of the still-frequent narrow-mindedness inherent in some societies/organisations that fail to see and understand the wide and diverse cultural habits and attitudes of the world today.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Aug 2003 07:06:02 |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 09:40:55
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I don't know whether to laugh or cry after checking this site out.
I remember this guy's 'comics' from when I was in elementary school and was forced to go to church on sundays. It cracked me up then. It actually scares me now.
Not only because there are people like this who are running the country and making the laws, but also because there is a larger group of people who put them there. They're the ones who also ban certain books and subjects from our schools and libraries, who picket and harrass medical clinics that perform abortions, and who also kill the doctors that perform them, too.
All in the name of "God".
And if we are so bold as to have a differing belief or opinion, well, we'll be spending eternity in Hell for doing so, according to them.
Well, at least I won't be alone! And I'll never worry about freezing my butt off! haha! 
I consider myself a pretty easy going and tolerant person, but when it comes to these F-ing idiots, I have absolutely none.
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"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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AraznBlair
Learned Scribe
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 16:22:16
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That comic was great. To think that people actually belive that after a game session the party gets together and do it for real. I mean come on. Everyone I play with knows the diference between reality and fiction.
I went further into the website and read someones article explaining the DND books and how bad it is. Saying that the gods are based on Religion Myths and then comparing these myths to todays religion. If the idiot looked further into it they would see that DND is in reality based on our worlds mythology.
The funny thing is that if we were to actually use our real histroy to play they would still be up in arms about it. We could all get our parties together and role play the fall of the Roman Empire and get the same criticism from them. I think it just gives them something to do. They need to open their minds more and see that all this is is fantasy and that is where it stays.
Not to say that there hasn't been some idiots that did take it to far. I remember being a kid and hearing stories of teenagers thinking that they were invincible and getting hit by a train. Though now that i am older I think it was just a way for the parents to put the blam somewhere instead of in their laps.
Like I said everyone I know that plays knows the difference between Reality and Fiction. |
Arazn Blair
Fightermage Extrodinare |
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Mythander
Learned Scribe
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 16:46:25
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This is a prime example of the fact that ignorance is not only bliss, but is sometimes funny.
I would get angry at it, but it is just so far off the mark it is not worth it. |
Wow! That has no saving throw written all over it. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 18:36:10
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Wow, now this is really taking it too far. Ive never seen anything like this in my life!!! I thought the book I purchased ("The Truth about Dungeons and Dragons") was laughable, but this site is just blatantly accusing D&D (and also....snigger "Rock Music"  ) as being responsible for something so extreme (i wont spoil it be mentioning it here).
Im gobsmacked. Im not going to start a war on religion, but people like this are the ones who need to take a look at what theyre preaching....its poisoning and brainwashing and WRONG! Nuff said!  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 18:39:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
I am a very bad person! I sent an email to the people listed on the site. OK I couldn't resist, I had to do it. I just HOPE they respond
Well put Mournblade. I dont think I could have kept my cool, id have ranted and raved too much! ....But of course, thats because I play D&D and im posessed by some evil spirit or demon  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Karesch
Learned Scribe
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 20:02:36
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LMAO, my girlfriend sent me the link to that site the other day. I couldn't resist writing them and pointing out numerous things to them, mainly being that the unfortunate kids that died "as a result of dungeons and dragons" whom I do feel bad for such young killing themselves, however, the reality is that they probably died as a result of their parents ignorance to their mental stability and a lack on the parents behalf to see their children were obviously taking the game too far by acting it out as a reality and should have taken the time out of their otherwise busy lives to teach their kids how to act more responsibly and that there's a vast difference between present reality and the D&D world.
I'm sure if the makers/supporters of that site came to my house and seen me, they'd try and drag me kicking and screaming from my home for an emergency baptism, seeing as I'm an avid player, a fan of gothic art, and a collector/smith of medievil weaponry. I'm sure a single look at the working 10Lb Flail I've made and tested on a reddish car would send them into a panic, for they probably lack the intelligence to realize the difference between paint and dried blood.
All in all, I spent a good hour reading that site and laughing my ass off at all their comparisons and "logic" and ended up having to take some Tums to relieve the pain in my stomach after laughing that hard for so long. |
Knowledge is power... power corrupts... knowledge corrupts? hmm...
Death is only frightening to those who haven't died yet... |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 20:41:28
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Oh well I didn't get a reply...
But you really have to read the articles about D&D on this site, if for no other reason than to understand what these people reallly think and how they work. The articles are definitley well written grammatically, but they lack any form of abstract thought.
I saw another website the other day, that was VERY christian oriented how ever it was not offensive. It was a site that actualy described D&D prettyt well. THe purpose of the site however was to give christians information about what about DUngeons and Dragons goes against christianity. I have no idea if anything does, I am very lacking in the area of christian studies, the only part of the bible I read was revelations but that is because I compared it to the Poetic Edda. Anyway, the point of the website was not whether D&D is good or bad just concerns that christian players may have. I have no problem with this, as it was not bashing, it was just a site for those christians that may be worried. Fair Enough. I received communion in the Episcopal church, so I guess that makes me episcopalian, but my beleif factor is Extremely low. I am especially good however at squashing the idea of creation science, and I think I relish the oppurtunities to do so a bit too much! HEY I must be that guy in the CHICK TRACT that was walking with the demon!
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Krandor
Seeker
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2003 : 20:59:43
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LOL
Anyone wanna raid the Whitehouse? I'll supply the tin foil swords but someone has to bring the cardboard shields and tincan helmets . |
"Good judgement comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement." - Krandor, Master Smith |
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Canyia
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 02:54:01
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The people who made all that crap up are not real christians. If they were they'd know that it clearly states in the bibles that persecuting people because of the way they are and being ignorant for "the sake of Jesus" is wrong (Matthew 5: 10, 11). But I guess they were just to busy being paranoid losers to read that. . .And I bet they never thought that if someone kills themselves over D&D that they just might have been messed up in the head to begin with. Maybe if they're parents actually payed attention to them they would have gotten help sooner.
Oh well I'm glad that site is up on the net, I very rarely get a good laugh like I did from it . . .That and it helps weed out the stupid people . . . |
Some people say that I'm heartless. They are wrong though,I have the heart of a little girl . . .in a jar on my desk. |
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Horgesh
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 04:31:57
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Not to side with the muck rakers but, to a point, D&D IS based off of real-world religions and writings.
In fact, Oghma is taken directly from the Gaelic pantheon and Mielikki is a Finnish deity of the hunt. If you're into the planes, The 9 Hells was based on Dante's Inferno
I would say that 90% (if not more) of the creatures in the MM can be traced back to real-world religions and folklore.
Blasphemous? Nah. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery ;)
Now, if you want to REALLY piss these people off, mail them a copy of White Wolf's: Revelations of the Dark Mother, a retelling of the original Hebrew creation myth from Lilith's perspective (and with a WoD spin). |
Battle fever. I am half a man and drunk with slaughter, let them kill me if they can! -George R. R. Martin: A Clash of Kings |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 07:50:24
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Hmm. Well, I'll have to take a look at that! (Haven't yet.) A professor of mine wants me to write a paper with the subject of "conflict" -- and what better subject than anti-D&D/Harry Potter/Tolkein/fantasy-in-general garbage?
I'd been having some trouble thinking of something, so when my mother (who still isn't sure about D&D, as some on here might recall from the Anti-RPG scroll) suggested it, I could have slapped myself silly. I came on here with the intention of going to the above mentioned scroll for information, but find this . . . wonderful timing, Mournblade.
Now, if I may, I'd like to say a few things . . . .
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
They are even against the catholic church. Oh to live in the world of sheep...
Some extremists say that Catholics (and I proudly admit to being Roman Catholic) aren't really Christians. Stupid idiots. They don't say that about the Angicans, and that's basically the same thing. The only major difference is that they don't follow the Holy See (aka the Pope) and anything that happened in the Church after the split.
As for all the different sects out there . . . I tell you, if Christ were still in his grave, he'd be spinning in it . . . . 
Great email, Mournblade. But you should have mentioned that you're a teacher as well. Get them all worried over how you're completely corrupting the poor, innocent souls in your charge . . . .
quote:
Originally posted by MuadDib
Being saved by Jesus does not happen when you sign a little permission slip at the bottom of their site, or do any number of other things you need to.
At least they aren't trying to sell indulgences . . . .
"Your sins shall be forgiven, should you only give us your money. Please click on the "donate" button below . . . ."
quote:
Originally posted by Yasraena
They're the ones who also ban certain books and subjects from our schools and libraries, who picket and harrass medical clinics that perform abortions, and who also kill the doctors that perform them, too.
Don't forget the people who want to ban math texts that contain five-sided figures. Or the ones who claim that fossils of any sort are tricks put there by the devil to turn people from God (not sure how that's supposed to work . . . .)
I do have to say that I am completely against abortion in any form. I have participated in the Right to Life marches in Washington, DC. I don't want to kill the doctors, though. Nor do I think that anyone who thinks abortion is okay is evil and deserves to die. After all, if I'm against the killing of babies, I should be against killing in general.
I do support the death penalty in some cases though. I never said I was consistant; still, with that it's different. First, there are a lot fewer executions than there are abortions, and second, every one of those babies is innocent. Some of those executed might be as well, but many are guilty of the crime they're dying for.
Sorry. Preachy_mode=off.
Karesch, they'd probably drag me out for a re-Baptism as well. I have four bookcases in my room filled with SF&F (including FR, Tolkein, and Lewis), one bookcase filled with all that unGodly science, for Heaven's sake, and all my reproductions of weapons. I have a resin dragon's skull (a popular design, it seems; I have the large version, not the 6" one), all these (gasp!) computer games, and (even worse!) religious items (such as a candle with the image of the Sacret Heart of Jesus on it, and an oversized rosary that was a gift of a Carmelite monk) that I must have defiled in my unholy rituals as I wrote my devilish fantasy stories . . . .
Hmm . . . I'm torn between ending that paragraph with or . . . .
I'll go with .
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Oh well I didn't get a reply...
But you really have to read the articles about D&D on this site, if for no other reason than to understand what these people reallly think and how they work. The articles are definitley well written grammatically, but they lack any form of abstract thought.
I saw another website the other day, that was VERY christian oriented how ever it was not offensive. It was a site that actualy described D&D prettyt well. THe purpose of the site however was to give christians information about what about DUngeons and Dragons goes against christianity. I have no idea if anything does, I am very lacking in the area of christian studies, the only part of the bible I read was revelations but that is because I compared it to the Poetic Edda. Anyway, the point of the website was not whether D&D is good or bad just concerns that christian players may have. I have no problem with this, as it was not bashing, it was just a site for those christians that may be worried. Fair Enough. I received communion in the Episcopal church, so I guess that makes me episcopalian, but my beleif factor is Extremely low. I am especially good however at squashing the idea of creation science, and I think I relish the oppurtunities to do so a bit too much! HEY I must be that guy in the CHICK TRACT that was walking with the demon!
Mournblade, could you give me the URL for that site? It would help my paper. I ought to have a sane anti-D&D site for a source if I want to actually be fair. And I don't want to screw up on that front.
This professor will be giving my paper extral critical attention; she knows I'm good, if a bit of a slow starter. I've taken a bunch of things with her, and she's always handed my papers back with enough red marks to make them look like they're bleeding, but I've always gotten As on them. She wants to push me, and I'm responding. It makes it much harder (much) but I've had great improvements since I started with her.
As for the Bible itself, I don't know. I haven't seen anything in it myself, but I'm certainly no Bible scholar. The best place to look is in Paul's letters, since that's where most of the Church's attitudes come from. (Including the Church's stance on gays -- it's not a new thing, folks. Paul specifically mentions homosexual activity. Can't remember where, though.)
Paul is considered to be the true founder of the Church, at least by some. I think it's just that he wrote all those letters, while most people stuck to word of mouth. Whenever you write something, it stays around a lot longer, and more people can consider it. It's the same with Augustine and Aquinas.
There is a bit on magic and divination in the Catechism, which a local mother showed me as an attempt to shake me from my "dangerous" focus on fantasy (I mentioned my writings). It doesn't say anything at all about fantasy and stories. Basically it's the same message as that bit in the PHB -- don't believe in it.
By the way, the next time I saw that woman, I was going to avoid talking to her -- I wasn't in the mood for another debate. However, the first thing she said to me was that she'd reconsidered, and decided to follow my advice -- actually read it before rejecting it. Then she asked for a story of mine.
I'd say "chalk one up for our side" but we aren't really keeping score here. I don't care if she doesn't like what I do, really. All I was upset about was that she was rejecting it without considering it. Look at my signature here, after all. This is one my own guiding principles.
quote:
Originally posted by Canyia
The people who made all that crap up are not real christians. If they were they'd know that it clearly states in the bibles that persecuting people because of the way they are and being ignorant for "the sake of Jesus" is wrong (Matthew 5: 10, 11). But I guess they were just to busy being paranoid losers to read that. . .
The same could be said of the Spanish Inquisition, you know. They must have inked over that spot on the Bibles they carried with them on their hunts.
Of course, they weren't paranoid. They were greedy. See, all the worldly possessions of the guilty would go to the Inquisition. Want to guess how many verdicts of "innocent" came from them? Here's a hint: they got rich faster than a dot-com blowout.
quote:
And I bet they never thought that if someone kills themselves over D&D that they just might have been messed up in the head to begin with. Maybe if they're parents actually payed attention to them they would have gotten help sooner.
You know, I've never seen any actual reports of such things. I've heard of them, of course -- people quote that at me a lot. But no one's ever been able to cough up a single documented instance of such a thing. There was something recently related to Everquest (see the scroll I linked to up at the top of this post), but that's it. I haven't ever found the original suicide cases, or anything llike it related to D&D.
Anyone know of something like that? It would help me a lot.
Okay, that was a long post. I'm going to go bookmark this new funny site now . . . .  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 08:21:09
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Okay, I took a look at that comic on the front page. I have to say that I didn't really find it funny. More disturbing than anything else.
Idiot.
I guess it is funny that he knows so little about the game -- look at the names he gave the characters. But really, just plain stupid. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 08:45:54
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| I have to mention this. The things in that site about Roman Catholics are even more out of proportion than the D&D junk. It reads like a tabloid. A very cheap tabloid, I might add. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 08:55:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Okay, I took a look at that comic on the front page. I have to say that I didn't really find it funny. More disturbing than anything else.
Idiot.
I guess it is funny that he knows so little about the game -- look at the names he gave the characters. But really, just plain stupid.
I agree with you there Bookwyrm, it was disturbing for me, not funny. Its going to extremes, and this really angers me! |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Canyia
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 11:19:11
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I thought that the Dark Dungeons tract on that site was the dumbest most nonsensical thing that was ever made by a ( and I use this term loosely ) "Christian". Oh how wrong I was. . .His other tracts are even worse. Just check out this one and explain to me how it makes any sense cause I'm completely lost . . . 
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0099/0099_01.asp |
Some people say that I'm heartless. They are wrong though,I have the heart of a little girl . . .in a jar on my desk. |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 11:47:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Canyia
I thought that the Dark Dungeons tract on that site was the dumbest most nonsensical thing that was ever made by a ( and I use this term loosely ) "Christian". Oh how wrong I was. . .His other tracts are even worse. Just check out this one and explain to me how it makes any sense cause I'm completely lost . . .
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0099/0099_01.asp
Mardi Gras.
If you've ever been to New Orleans you'd know what he's talking about. |
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Canyia
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 12:09:18
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| True enough . . .but I really doubt the devil is going to go to a mascarade party with a devil mask on just to give a poisoned drink to some random girl. I'm as God loving as they come but I'll have to give Satan some credit in that he must have more important things to do and they aren't that dumb . . . |
Some people say that I'm heartless. They are wrong though,I have the heart of a little girl . . .in a jar on my desk. |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 12:23:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Canyia
True enough . . .but I really doubt the devil is going to go to a mascarade party with a devil mask on just to give a poisoned drink to some random girl. I'm as God loving as they come but I'll have to give Satan some credit in that he must have more important things to do and they aren't that dumb . . .
Plus, he'd have a minion do it. Or some lesser imp. Big bosses never do any of the grunt work themselves. You'd think Chick would know better! |
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Canyia
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 12:33:17
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| I'm beginning to think Chick isSatan. Only Satan would be able to spread that much intolerance and flat out ignorance . . . |
Some people say that I'm heartless. They are wrong though,I have the heart of a little girl . . .in a jar on my desk. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 12:52:09
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That one was a bit over the top. The devil can't overtly work in the world. He can come here, but he has to tempt humans to do his work for him.
The ones I'm upset about are this one and this one.
This guy claims to have read the Bible, but he obviously hasn't looked at it close enough. He also doesn't look beyond the superficial. This isn't the place to talk about this, but I have to say it. I'm not going to cover all the things in here, just some.
First of all, he attacks the confessional. He says that it's the priest who forgives, which is obviously paganism.
Nope. God forgives the sins. The priest is the channel. And the sacrement only works if you are truly repentant; if you aren't, then no matter what the priest says, you haven't been forgiven for such acts.
Let's cover the accusation of idolatry. We don't worship the saints or the Virgin Mary. There's a very large difference between worship and prayer. To pray is simply to ask. Mary is the greatest of all saints. She isn't a god.
As for images: we don't worship them either. Actually, this is the simplest thing to refute. The statues, pictures, etc., are all just focuses. I bet he has a similar object that he puts in a prominant spot in his house. It's called the Bible. Yup, that thing he treats with reverence. Why, he's worshiping a book, isn't he?
No, he isn't. No more than we worship an image of Jesus instead of the real thing.
He refers to the "wafer god." We don't worship the Host during Communion. We worship Jesus. "This is my body" and "this is my blood." It says it in the Gospel, and not just during the Last Supper.
This part, unless you really look at it, is probably superficial when you use technical terms. I don't have the sort of training to go through it, but I will say this. My mother is violently allergic to the chemical gluten, which is found in wheat, barley, oats, and several other things. If she injests the slightest bit of it -- heck, even most soy sauces -- she sufferes vomiting and diarea for about a day and a half, and isn't back to her normal level of health (which isn't good to start with) for about three days.
The wafer is unleavened wheat.
Every time we go to Mass, she recieves Communion.
She's never reacted adversely to the Host.
Chew on that one.
Despite being a man of science, I've never needed proof for the transformation of the wafer into the Host. But if I did, that's pretty strong stuff there. You might say that it's mind over matter. I say that if it was a case of her tricking herself, then she never would have developed the allergy at all. It's a very recent thing, and she only found out the cause of it less than two years ago. Before that it was three years of violent reactions to every speck of wheat and related plants that she ingested -- except for the Host.
That little story about the Egyptions is made up, as far as I can find out. I've never seen that anyplace. I'm sure he believed it, and I'm sure if I checked his source it would say that same thing. But I've never seen that story before.
As for the IHS on the wafer . . . gee, I didn't know the Egyptians used the Roman alphabet.
Oh, and the priest doesn't have any magical powers. The only thing that makes him stronger than an ordinary man is that, supposedly, his faith is stronger. This makes his prayers purer, and more focused. This doesn't mean that you have to go through a priest if you want to talk to God. All it means is that a member of the clergy is usually more spiritual. It doesn't always follow, of course. Just like not every tall person enjoys playing basketball.
Personally, I can't see any way that Satan would profit from the Mass. It isn't the kind of sacrifice this guy's suggesting. Christ is the Lord of Time as well, you know -- the real kind, not the ones who use TARDISes. His sacrifice touches every moment in time. It happened once, and never again. But it also manifests in the Eucharist, every time it is said.
Papal infallability: please note the bit he put in fine print there. It basically says it all. The Pope, as the man, is as fallible as the rest of us. But even the most corrupt pope never did anything in a spiritual sense that was wrong. A couple hundred years ago, this was noticed, and declared a truth. So far, it still holds. The moment a pope declares something evil as a part of the Church, then I'll believe that papal infallibility doesn't exist. But in two thousand years, it hasn't happened. And before you throw out stuff like the Inquisition, think about the histories of each instance.
The pope does not call himself a god.
Oh, and I'm not a citizen of the Vatican. I'm an American. As for politics -- the Vatican is basically free of that. In fact, the Vatican is actually under the care (not control, just care) of Rome. They're the ones who maintain things in a physical sense. The mission of the Vatican is spiritual. They aren't trying to take over the world.
Moron.
I know I said I'd do only a few. And believe it or not, I did. He's got a lot of garbage on there. A lot of it is outright lies. The rest is all blown out of proportion. I just needed to show this.
I've never attacked his religion. I've always believed that there are many ways to God and His Son. I won't say that mine is the best way, because that would be exactly the same mistake that this guy is making. He's assuming that he knows exactly what Jesus thinks. He knows he is saved. I think that this is supreme hubris.
But I'm not attacking his choice of faith. In fact, I respect how strongly he feels. The fact that he sounds like a moron is beside the point. He's free to do what he wants, so long as he doesn't harm anyone. I feel that same way about everything. I wish he'd extend the same courtesy to people like me, instead of painting us as angry, power-hungry extremists.
My sincere appologies to any who found this annoying, whether due to its content in general (being unRealms in nature) or due to the subject itself. In particular to Alaundo. I hope you all understand why I needed to say this. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Canyia
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 13:35:15
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| I actually think this is a very valid subject to be in here. alot have people here have probably feel some persecution by "Christians" who are out to save peoples souls. I'm actually enjoying this particular thread very much. You have no idea how mad that Chick guy makes me I'm a very proud Roman Catholic and the stuff he's saying about my religion just makes me want to . . . Nevermind. Anyway it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who thinks this guy is irritating. Oh and Amen to that Bookwyrm, Amen to that. . . |
Some people say that I'm heartless. They are wrong though,I have the heart of a little girl . . .in a jar on my desk. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 13:46:46
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Thanks, Canyia. I wanted to say even more, but I think I hit all of the really bad parts in that. Besides, I'm not a very good Biblical scholar, so I don't want to quote the wrong things. I'm also not very good at explaining my faith. A lot of people think that Catholics are all pomp and ceremony, that we don't use simple faith. It's not true. Sure, we show off a bit. But so does everyone else. And the end result of all the ceremonious-ness is to focus everyone's mind on the importance of God. There's a lot in the Mass that isn't needed. Heck, you don't even need the physical church. I've been to a Mass where we were on the lawn of someone's house, where the altar was a picnic table, and we all sat and kneeled on the grass.
If this guy were here, I'm sure he'd win the argument. You know why? Because he's obviously good at BS, just like any other tabloid writer. And like any other tabloid writer, he won't listen to the truth.
Fine by me. I'm sure he isn't going to Hell. But I do think this guy's going to have a talking-to when he dies . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Canyia
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 14:46:20
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If God is actually as hateful as Chick depicts him to be, I'm pretty sure Chick is going to hell with a first class ticket.
I particualariyl hate the way he rags on imaginary violence in D&D. Many Christians like himself have murdered thousand upon thousands of people in the name of God. Yes I know I'm making a dig at my own religion, but it's true and no one here can deny it. Especially Chick since he just seems to know everything there is to know about Christianity. since when was imaginary violence sinful and actualy violence for God justifiable?
As a reply to the guy who was asking about reports of D&D related murders and suicides they have it on the site http://www.chick.com/reading/books/204/0204%5F10.asp I seriously doubt it's credability ( I spelled that so wrong ) but it's something . . . |
Some people say that I'm heartless. They are wrong though,I have the heart of a little girl . . .in a jar on my desk. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 21:16:35
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I used to be Episcopalian. I guess maybe aI still am to a certain extent. But I had some born again christian friends (who are no longer my friends because I would not allow myself to be saved) that completely turned me off to christianity, in fact they caused me to STOP going to my own church... I do think Anglicans and Catholics are a step above the Born agains, but I have met so many christians that are against scientific thought, and evil that I just cannot even consider myself a christian anymore. I can promise all of the faithful catholics, anglicans, and other reasonable christians that these people are DESTROYING your cause.
It is because of all the religious zealots out there, whether they are muslims, christians, jews or whatever they are that prevents me from being religious at all. It seems in order to beleive one religion, you have to think the others are wrong. How can you possibly say another religion is wrong when you cannot even prove your own. I am not really an atheist, I guess I am just an agnostic. I Beleive there is some force out there that helps things along, and I am a strong beleiver in Kharma and the Dharmic Wheel. IN fact the only religion I have ever considered in the past couple years is Buddhism.
I am not antireligious though the CHick tracts make me come close, but I do beleive the country would advance further if there was not such a religious presence in this country (no offense to anyone, I just honestly beleive that). I now view Religion as something that holds a population back, and prevents progress.
I understand that Religion is very important in peoples lives and I am sensitive to that. In fact my mother (who for all her faith NEVER gave me any problem about D&D, well except when it caused my grades to become c's and d's in 7th grade)is very religious, and because I am a world traveller, I make sure to visit important cathedrals and religious sites on HER behalf. It is weird because I actually do kind of Pray at those moments but more like a CONAN to CROM prayer, (Like OK you won't listen to me because you know I am a non beleiver, but please listen to this for my MOM, and then say something on her behalf, and leave prayer requests on her behalf.) I NEVER get into religious arguments with anyone that is intelligent about their Faith (like for example Bookwyrm, whose views I can respect). However as soon as I catch a modicum of definitive ignorance I strike. These people of course can never beleive they lose an argument, but trust me they do.
I hope this didn't offend anyone HERE, but the chick tracts have me more annoyed now that the humour has worn off.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Canyia
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2003 : 22:24:17
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| People like that do give off a bad imagine of Christianity. I was baptized as a Roman Catholic and when I was 11 (I was a very bright and very opinionated, aware 11 year old mind you) I renounced Catholicism because of the corruptness of the people in it. All the negative things that people were doing and how intolerant they were just totally made me think the whole religion was just some big scam....which in a way it is...but not because God and Jesus don't exsist, because in my eyes they most certainly do but because people have made it that way. They've used a beautiful religion to meet their own corrupts desires of money and power. I have since realized that what people say is Gods law and whatnot really shouldn't matter and I've since started going to mass again and am reclaiming my faith. I'm very wary about what parts of my religion I actually believe. I have a hard time believing any of the laws in the bible because there's o proof that they're actually for real. I feel bad saying that but people were corrupt back then too. I just try to be a good person, to not judge people. I'm relaxed on most issues, the only thing I'm really adiment about is abortion and pornography which I think are really wrong. I don't get up in anyone's face about it though. It's their life to live. So long as it isn't hurting me go nuts. . . |
Some people say that I'm heartless. They are wrong though,I have the heart of a little girl . . .in a jar on my desk. |
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CHristian anti-D&D site! It is true! Funnystuff
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